Democratic (Party) Direction

yeah, poor public speaking skills can be excused if the substance is still there, but she's regularly only had mediocre platitudes to offer. it's weird because i don't recall her coming across that badly as a speaker in the past.

The Biden Administration and Congressional leadership aren't giving her much to work with beyond mediocre platitudes, can't sell plans that don't exist.

I wasn't too impressed with her own plans during the primary tbh.

Yesterday I announced that, as president, I’ll establish a student loan debt forgiveness program for Pell Grant recipients who start a business that operates for three years in disadvantaged communities. https://t.co/ldwuC9RiIE

— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) July 28, 2019

That one was really memorable as emblematic of the way the Democratic Party tends to kneecap their own policies right out the gate by imposing incredibly specific and confusing requirements that gate access to benefits.

goddamn that looks like parody

Yeah I remember that very clearly being the moment that the idea that Harris is not very good entered my mind.

And it was of particular significance in the moment of that primary, where you had Bernie, a serious contender who, for once, was not proposing all kinds of means-tested-to-death bullshit but universal programs.

Ten of them were fighting to be the not-Bernie/Warren and battling to see who could come up with the most mealy-mouthed centrist garbage to please donors and MSNBC talking heads.

Biden was centrist Bane, he didn't have to adopt means testing and mass incarceration he was born into it.

I read that Gavin Newsom is polling higher than Harris for a theoretical 2024 run.

Also not a fan, but obviously I wound wind up voting for either of them in the general.

Feel like Newsom’s Guilfoyle days would doom him eventually.

Well exactly. I felt the Bern in 2020 but honestly anyone who can deliver the vote. Newsom doesn't seem terrible.

withholding judgment on who can deliver the vote until I see some of the other options. I'm skeptical that either caluhfornia librul is the person to do it right now.

What other CaLiberal are you talking about?

It was so close in 2020. I don't think Harris should be so discounted as having been part of that winning ticket.

I think she boosted Democratic turnout.

Whatever role she played in 2020 is pretty meaningless to an individual run. Being VP makes her less likely to become President to start with, being VP for an unpopular President certainly does. She's hamstrung for 2-6 more years with no ability to generate political accomplishments. Given her short Senate career she has little record of individual stances or beliefs to separate her from the Biden administration or any other generic centrist-maybe-sorta-liberal Democrat and limits her ability to come up with them.

Harris's best path to the Presidency is Biden getting re-elected in 2024 and then keeling over.

I mean, there is a chance.

I have to believe "he's old as shit, maybe..." entered into the calculation to leave a lifetime sinecure in the Senate for a job that sucks.

I still remember watching the first Biden/Trump "debate" and thinking that the best outcome would be for Biden to win and then die.

It is kind of a morbid calculus, but not an irrational one.

xpost - that is a 100% correct take, given...

White House officials defend the urgency of Biden’s response and the actions he has taken on abortion, which they argue are in step with mainstream opinion. “The president has been showing his deep outrage as an American and executing his bold plan — which is the product of months of hard work — ever since this decision was handed down,” White House communications director Kate Bedingfield said in a statement Saturday.

“Joe Biden’s goal in responding to Dobbs is not to satisfy some activists who have been consistently out of step with the mainstream of the Democratic Party. It’s to deliver help to women who are in danger and assemble a broad-based coalition to defend a woman’s right to choose now, just as he assembled such a coalition to win during the 2020 campaign,” she said.

I don't think a Harris White House would be so quick to publicly flip the bird to "activists."

you guys always seem to be counting on people dying in office

Not counting on, hoping - the ghouls rarely die, though. Must be nice to have that rich person healthcare.

Yeah I remember that very clearly being the moment that the idea that Harris is not very good entered my mind.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, July 9, 2022

And it was of particular significance in the moment of that primary, where you had Bernie, a serious contender who, for once, was not proposing all kinds of means-tested-to-death bullshit but universal programs.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, July 9, 2022

can't relate to this at all

Newsom's Guilfoyle days are not going to doom him

Sanders was fucking old too. Warren was my pick and also old but women face less cognitive decline

There would be some unpleasant sacrifices involved to scourge elected politicians over the age 70 but c'est la vie.

can't relate to this at all

Dan, are there reasons that you think Harris’ tweet is both good policy and good messaging?

sic, are you seriously talking about a tweet from 2019? Didn't we just do this last weekend??

You might like Newsom - he is trolling DeSantis in Florida with a video inviting people to come to California.

sic

I don't really know, it doesn't seem egregious but I think you probably know more than me

Sanders was fucking old too. Warren was my pick and also old but women face less cognitive decline

right, with Biden the thing that really struck me was how different he seemed from the last time I had paid any attention to him, which was the 2012 debate with Paul Ryan, which genuinely impressed me. Not for any skill in presenting a political message, but in the sort of classic political performance that I figured was dead - laughing at Ryan, presenting this persona of a seen-it-all veteran who knows that the man he's opposing is full of shit and doesn't deserve a moment of his or the audience's respect, and then using the last 10 minutes to pivot to this personal, emotional appeal to the average voter. It was really incredible to watch, and seeing him in the last few years, whether or not he has dementia, that sort of performance just isn't in him any more.

Maybe, but I don't think he's incapacitated and there just isn't any other democrat who could win the 2024 election as far as I can see. Why would we NOT run the incumbent? I think all this talk of him stepping down is a mistake

Assuming a Democratic primary will ever matter again, I wonder if they learned a lesson about not running out eight people splitting up the centrist/old people vote. Without COVID and against anyone other than Trump the mass dropout to prop up Biden may not have worked out so well in the end.

If he gets elected to the Senate, I’m riding the Fetterman train in 24

Joe Stork otm re 2012 debate. A true masterclass by a guy who’s otherwise been pretty unremarkable to downright shitty his entire political life.

I don't think anyone is talking about him stepping down? Giving up the incumbency advantage would probably be dumb or if things are so hopeless a GOP win is likely it's better to sacrifice him than give someone else the stink of being a loser.

People were talking about potential 2024 stuff because Democrats are quietly what happens if he doesn't run (for whatever reason - simple choice, cognitive decline, tired of getting impeached the GOP House). Harris would be the presumptive followup but it's hard to imagine an heir apparent in a weaker position.

quietly discussing what happens

mostly I just enjoyed watching a fratty dipshit who’d been feted by credulous liberal pundits (I’m looking at you Ezra) as some Serious Conservative Intellect more or less crumple

This seems like deeply strange reasoning to me considering that Bernie has always come across as sharp and has never shown any signs of cognitive decline.

― Osama bin Chinese (gyac)

it's not deeply strange when you look at how quickly men decline

xxxp

Biden will run again is my take, especially if Trump is running

giving up the incumbency advantage would be dumb

pretty sure the Democrats' best bet to ever have a President after Biden (whenever that might be) is to convince Michelle Obama to run tbh. I assume she still has like 70% positive ratings.

this thread's been an MSNBC bloc today

Obama/McConaughey '28 - 'they're not old enough to be your grandparents and you know both their names without turning to wikipedia'

This seems like deeply strange reasoning to me considering that Bernie has always come across as sharp and has never shown any signs of cognitive decline.

― Osama bin Chinese (gyac)

it's not deeply strange when you look at how quickly men decline

Heart problems can lead to impairment/quicker cognitive decline, can't they? Doesn't appear to be the case with Sanders but he did have that heart attack before the primaries.

three leakiest brains in the party, in order:
1)Feinstein
2)Biden
3) Pelosi (distant third but boy the next few years are going to wild)

It's probably fine that the average age of the House leadership is 81.

And that in 10 years it will be 91

Kevin McCarthy will only be 67 in 10 years.