The Jordan Peterson Thread

I’d rather he died than delete his tweet, too. I’d rather he died than most things.

I just have such contempt for anyone who could look at Peterson and not see an abject failure of a human being, failing deeper and deeper and ever turning to hate rather than introspection in the face of such abject failure.

Sigh, oh for the days where we were just eyerolling at David Avocado Wolfe

There’s a name you don’t hear much anymore! tbf I reckon there’s like a 99% chance Wolfe is full nazi now (and 1000% he’s an antivaxxer that’s not even a question)

Luckily I can't be bothered to go thru the thread to find the ILX rube who stood up for this monster

xp had a look at his twitter, yes borderline nazi plus bonus pro-guns and pro-russia, guess these things all come together as a bundle these days

It's weird how a bunch of people decided to embody the old "scratch a hippy, find a nazi" trope

lol yep educated guess on my part there, it’s always a reasonable assumption with these ppl

Old news tbh, I'm more impressed by the nazis I've found scratching punks and 90's alterna types recently.

Oh god yeah but I'd argue a lot of those dicks are hippy adjacent

the one solitary person on this thread who respectfully defended JP is a 90's alterna type poster.

After making that professionally produced video about how he would rather die than delete the tweet, it seems that he has now, without comment, deleted the tweet. sorry I know this will be a disappointment to many of us.

Maybe he's dead?

not getting my hopes up again

Whatever happened to those assistants who were supposed to be resetting all his passwords so he couldn’t get on social media? Total failures.

They changed the password for everything to "jordanpetersonisafuckingidiot" not reckoning with the idea that he'd type that himself, in a fit of beef-induced delirium and self-loathing, and be able to get online once again...

too busy cleaning their rooms, those monster energy cans arent gonna recycle themselves!!!

xp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh2Cg6t0gE

His mannerisms are bizarrely "campy", like Trump's in some way. Bizarre how these behaviours strike such a resounding chord among bigots and broken people.

They can't cry or enjoy musical theater so they need people to do it for them.

the combination of always presenting himself as an ultra-rational robot and at the same time being one of the most thin-skinned drama queens around is just delicious, you could not write such a character, nobody would believe it.

They sure would; it’s a type.

"what rules you sons of BITCHES" is just gonna have me lol'ing until judgement day

This is what happens when a creepy bigot who wanked over photos of an actor because they looked like a teenaged girl has to deal with the fact that they actually wanked over pictures of a man, and their brain breaks.

I mean, this could be the most genius parody ever.

"That was a straight wank! You can't CHANGE THE RULES mid-wank!"

Maybe this is kind of obvious by now, but I think Peterson had one really important insight that could have been beneficial if used differently, which is that many young men in our society are never taught to care for themselves, and that a sort of gentle-seeming but paternalistic "intellectual" figure makes a good delivery vehicle for young men to hear the message that they should care for themselves, just the right balance and empathy and firmness such that young men don't receive it as some kind of "corny/wussy self help." There are no Stuart Smalley-esque self affirmations -- the self affirmation is in action. Clean your room. The implicit idea in that is that you deserve a clean room, but the affirmation comes from the act, not looking in the mirror and saying "I'm good enough." The problem is that since no one else was doing it, there was a vacuum open for a Jordan Peterson to couple that paternalistic self care message with all kinds of hateful crap as he does. Is a left Jordan Peterson possible or an inherent contradiction? IDK but I think it would be good if there was some kind of left figure offering young alienated men that same kind of affirmation.

In my opinion, plenty of figures deliver positive messages to young alienated men every day, some are family members, some are friends, some are professionals, the problem is that some of these men need the message to be wrapped in misogyny and anger. There's a whole world of help in which any man can live happily between 'corny/wussy' and Peterson's hatred.

Who is a male public figure who is relatively liberal/left and fits that description?

That's a good question, and I've never looked for one.

I do wonder if therapy was more easily accessible would Peterson would be as successful?

I don't think we will find such a man among the ranks of self-promoting, YouTubing academics.

Jordan Peterson is just Randy Marsh, unanimated

It's hard to target "how to be a good man" stuff from an explicitly left perspective because contemporary lefties tend to realize that the "man" part is BS and it's really just how to "be a good person."

otmfm

"How to be a good man" from a left perspective will often boil down to "how to navigate a sexist system for the benefit of others." Like, I'm the person who deals with all government bureaucracy in my house, because when it's a white (presenting) male voice on the phone, shit gets handled approximately 150x faster.

^yassss king

I’m not sure that “how to be a good man/person” is really what I’m talking about. I’m saying that no one tells men it’s ok for them to care for themselves. Like I think a lot of young men live in a state of self-neglect, and don’t even know how to recognize it as such. And I do think that can be related to being a good person inasmuch as self care and self empathy can make a good foundation for kindness to others.

I get what you're saying, man alive, and a lot of young men *not* getting those sorts of lessons and etc has to do with a culture of misogyny— "the woman will take care of you" and such bullshit— so the rank misogyny of Peterson (along with everything else) sort of cancels out the good part.

Not sort of, totally.

I don't think women really get that message either and are living in similar states of self-neglect - because giving people agency over their lives isn't what our system does.

There's more self-help and self-care marketed to women, but they're generally just that - marketing for products.

I get what you're saying, man alive, and a lot of young men *not* getting those sorts of lessons and etc has to do with a culture of misogyny— "the woman will take care of you" and such bullshit— so the rank misogyny of Peterson (along with everything else) sort of cancels out the good part.

― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Tuesday, July 5, 2022 9:18 PM (forty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Well first of all, of course it cancels out, my whole point is that I wish someone with decent politics could find a way to reach young men with some of these "good parts" but better politics attached to it.

Also, I think you're probably right that, at least indirectly, "women will take care of this stuff" is the sociological root of a lot of what I am talking about, whether or not these particular young men did in fact grow up with a woman taking care of that stuff (I didn't at all, and I was pretty self-neglecting for a long time). But if anything, that's all the more reason for someone to encourage men to learn to take care of themselves. That would be a net positive for them and indirectly benefit any future partners they might have too.

Yeah women “taking care of stuff” seems otm to me. I guess a lot of dudes can be spoiled and/or neglected by their parents. And while that’s nothing new, what does seem new(ish) is that a lot of those guys aren’t getting married the minute they leave home or college to someone who’s going to wash their undies and make their tendies. They seem pretty resentful about it. Enter Peterson. Sure, he’s going to tell you to clean your room bucko, but also give you a framework about why your resentment (mostly directed women, lgbtq, cultural marxists, Disney Pixar, people who make fun of you online) is actually righteous and earned.

Or I guess that’s how he initially hit a cultural nerve online. Now I assume conservative parents just give their little champs Peterson books as graduation presents or when they get a gay teacher fired.

Can imagine Peterson as an Ayn Rand-esque figure, whose shitty books are shared between emotionally crippled right-wingers as a pseudo-intellectual justification for endless behavioural faults and cruelties

xp that seems right to me. People seeking this guy’s advice out aren’t doing so to improve their lives, they are doing so to validate their resentments at the parts of society they feel are doing them out of something they’ve earned. If you genuinely want to self improve, listening to some sweaty guy ranting about how women are chaotic and the source of all evil or whatever seems counterproductive to that.

I've not read it but in the UK, Robert Webb the Peep Show comedy actor, wrote a mainstream book called How To Be A Man, which is probably the kind of thing people are talking about upthread. I can't imagine anyone who isn't already part of the congregation reading it though

JP's book isn't marketed in the same way though I guess. It's aimed primarily at young men, obviously, but ostensibly it's seen as a general pseudo-philosophical work who want to declutter themselves from "chaos"

I will admit, and this is perhaps the privilege of being raised by v progressive people talking, that I have zero patience for all this "how to be a man" stuff even when it's coming from a good place - all this stuff about detoxifying masculinity and dudes going to groups to discuss how to be men in a modern, progressive way - there's nothing there that doesn't just boil down to being a good person, as milo said. I mean learning to use your societal standing for good, sure, but that's really not what most of this hand wringing is about.

Robert Webb also breaks a p big rule on how to be a good man by being a TERF.

so I guess there's at least one issue him and Jordan Peterson can agree on!

I mean tbh I agree, I was more trying to suss out the dynamics man alive was talking about

I’m not sure that “how to be a good man/person” is really what I’m talking about. I’m saying that no one tells men it’s ok for them to care for themselves. Like I think a lot of young men live in a state of self-neglect, and don’t even know how to recognize it as such. And I do think that can be related to being a good person inasmuch as self care and self empathy can make a good foundation for kindness to others.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, July 6, 2022 3:10 AM (ten hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Didn't bell hooks an da few others have to make a big thing of that for activists which may be taken as women by some as default. & i only really seems to have become a thing there in recent years.
Not really wanting to excuse Peterson but maybe self-care is something that does need to be highlighted. Especially if one is dealing with stiff upper lip toxic masculinity.
Did nearly buy his book recently when I saw it in a charity shop then realised i had a load of other things to read already but still maybe I should read what the other side says etc. Can help hone arguments against etc. Or may just be toxicity one doesn't need to absorb. I dunno