even more quiddities and agonies of the ruling class - a new rolling new york times thread

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (4883 of them)

That's unreadable, nothing about this woman merits so many words.

papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 2 July 2022 20:26 (three years ago)

The article is paywalled, but is this the wife of the professor who was investigated and suspended for having a multi-year "consensual relationship" with a female student?

Canceled, indeed.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 2 July 2022 20:30 (three years ago)

And judging from the graduates it produces, yes, Princeton is an absolute hell.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 2 July 2022 20:31 (three years ago)

tbf to Princeton, they did at least fire the predatory jackhole who is semi-profiled in this deranged article!

rob, Saturday, 2 July 2022 20:35 (three years ago)

It's a little unclear, but apparently there was more than one relationship? And Solveig Gold, who is now his wife, was one of them?

This kind of thing was rampant in my law school back in the 90s. The school turned a blind eye. It was demoralizing and creepy.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 2 July 2022 20:37 (three years ago)

Yes, there was more than one. The article lays out a timeline wherein Gold had graduated by the time their relationship had commenced, but ummmmmmmmmm sure

rob, Saturday, 2 July 2022 20:40 (three years ago)

otoh his personal attorney is also a former student of his, so maybe Princeton is essentially an alien world I cannot understand

rob, Saturday, 2 July 2022 20:41 (three years ago)

“The professors are afraid to take students out to coffee or lunches,” Dr. Katz said. “Last I asked, a major part of education was extracurricular activity.” He added, “People are going to jump on me — ‘I know what he means by extracurricular activity.’” Later, he insisted on adding a clarification: “That’s obviously not what I mean.”

Good joek

jmm, Saturday, 2 July 2022 20:53 (three years ago)

idk, seems like an intriguing step forward; not sure anyone before has gained entry into the intellectual dark web because their creepy 25-years-older spouse was ~cancelled~

mookieproof, Saturday, 2 July 2022 21:02 (three years ago)

"The professors are afraid" LOL

He means it's getting harder and harder to get away with taking advantage of the power differential and pressuring/cajoling/charming undergraduates into sex.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 2 July 2022 21:07 (three years ago)

right?!? let’s think about the real victims here

Tracer Hand, Sunday, 3 July 2022 01:32 (three years ago)

"Geez, you can't even buy a lady a drink anymore" says man who regularly roofies drinks

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 3 July 2022 01:57 (three years ago)

I've worked at two large land-grant state schools and reading shit like this just boggles my mind, these people are so absolutely unlike anyone I've ever encountered in academia.

At my most recent new faculty orientation there one of the speakers was from HR and came out and said extremely loudly and forcefully "Do not sleep with your students. In case you weren't paying attention, I repeat: DO NOT SLEEP WITH YOUR STUDENTS OR YOU WILL BE FIRED".

joygoat, Sunday, 3 July 2022 14:08 (three years ago)

Thank god, finally some clarity on this confusing and complex subject.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Sunday, 3 July 2022 14:19 (three years ago)

yeah his overall manner was great, like a terribly broken man who perhaps phrased this differently or more abstractly in the past but after years in his position has to be totally fucking blunt about it knowing it still won't get through to a lot of people

joygoat, Sunday, 3 July 2022 14:33 (three years ago)

“The professors are afraid to take students out to coffee or lunches,” Dr. Katz said. “Last I asked, a major part of education was extracurricular activity.”

This is just such a weird thing to say. I went to an fancy & elite US college. I got a great education. At no time did any professor take me out for coffee and lunch and it would have been a bizarrely unexpected thing to have happen.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 3 July 2022 15:03 (three years ago)

Sum of my extracurricular interaction: I had a conversation with a professor at Whole Foods once, she was trying to get me to take her upcoming Heidegger class (lol no).

papal hotwife (milo z), Sunday, 3 July 2022 16:40 (three years ago)

is it cool if we post entire articles here, i feel like the poors should be allowed equal access to powerful emetics

bule bulak oying (cat), Sunday, 3 July 2022 18:40 (three years ago)

i’m doing it, only mod can judge me

Solveig Gold Is Proud to Be the Wife of a ‘Canceled’ Princeton Professor
nytimes.com/2022/07/01/style/solveig-gold-joshua-katz-princeton-professor.html
Anemona HartocollisJuly 1, 2022

PRINCETON, N.J. — Solveig Lucia Gold was setting the table in her backyard, next door to the house once occupied by Albert Einstein. Her yard is a sweeping field of emerald green grass leading down to the 18th-century blacksmith’s cottage with stone floors that houses her home study.

Ms. Gold, 27, was preparing for an intimate dinner with some of the few people — “our little cabal,” she said — who publicly admit to being on friendly terms with her and her husband, the recently fired (she prefers “canceled”) former Princeton classics professor Joshua Katz.

Most of the guests were much older than Ms. Gold. This included Dr. Katz, who is 52 and was once her professor. They married last July, four years after she finished Princeton with a summa cum laude degree in classics, and one year after Dr. Katz began his public fight with the campus left.

The couple ran arms wide open into the culture wars, which Ms. Gold says was characteristic of her, but not of him, the low-key professor whom everyone liked, who previously didn’t ruffle feathers at the university where he had worked since 1998. (“I am the alpha,” she wrote in an essay about their relationship.)

“I’m not Lady Macbeth in this story, but I am obviously implicated in some way in getting him involved,” she said.

“She gave me a certain kind of courage for doing this type of thing,” Dr. Katz said. “She was not responsible for my action in doing it.”

The trouble began on July 4, 2020, when a group of Princeton faculty sent a letter to the university’s president, demanding that the university combat institutional racism. “Anti-Blackness is foundational to America,” it declared.

Four days later, Dr. Katz responded with a manifesto, “A Declaration of Independence by a Princeton Professor,” in Quillette, which is something of a house organ for the so-called Intellectual Dark Web. He took issue with proposed changes that would “lead to civil war on campus and erode even further public confidence in how elite institutions of higher education operate.”

But the part that drew the most notice was his characterization of the Black Justice League — a student group that had called on Princeton to acknowledge the racist legacy of Woodrow Wilson some six years before it finally took his name off its public policy school, in June of 2020 — as “a small local terrorist organization.”

As it happens, when she was a student at Princeton, Ms. Gold had helped found a group called the Princeton Open Campus Coalition for the express purpose of opposing the Black Justice League and its demands.

Outrage ensued over Dr. Katz’s choice of words, which he defended as “metaphorical.” Nearly two years later, this spring, Princeton fired Dr. Katz, who had tenure, saying it was not for his outspokenness, but for new information that had emerged about his conduct during a sexual relationship he’d had with a student some 15 years earlier, an affair he had been suspended over before.

Ms. Gold says she has often been the only one standing between her husband and utter despair, as his career crumbled and colleagues deserted him.

“He has said essentially that if I weren’t there, he probably wouldn’t be here either,” she said. “That’s a lot of pressure on me, being responsible for keeping someone alive. On the other hand, I’m glad to do it.”

A certain amount of prurient interest accompanied the revelation that the Princeton professor who’d lost his job over a relationship with one former student was now married to another. Ms. Gold doesn’t shy away from it. On her Twitter account, her avatar is a photo of herself in a wedding dress, and the background picture is of her with a group of Princeton professors, including her husband.

And when Dr. Katz lost his job, Ms. Gold promptly published an essay about their relationship in Common Sense, the newsletter run by Bari Weiss, a former writer and editor for the opinion department of The New York Times. (“My alma mater is not the school I once loved,” went part of the headline. “But Joshua Katz is exactly the man I knew I married.”)

“He’s young at heart, and I’m an old soul, and it works,” Ms. Gold said later.

While she is not a national player yet, she has long imagined the possibility. When Ms. Gold was named a winner of the Pyne prize, one of Princeton’s highest undergraduate honors for which Dr. Katz (they were not in a relationship at the time) was one of her nominators, the official announcement said she aspired to become a public intellectual. (She had a head start. Ms. Gold and her grandfather Robert W. Jenson, a Lutheran theologian, wrote a book, “Conversations With Poppi About God,” when she was just 8.)

As her guests were about to arrive, Ms. Gold changed from a plain blue summer shift into a more glamorous cinched-waist yellow dress, drawing an approving smile from her husband, who was wearing a pink linen shirt.

She set the long rectangular table in the grass precisely, with a Wedgewood-blue and white tablecloth, cloth napkins tied up in yellow ribbons, place cards inked in a neat cursive hand and melamine dishes in a Provençal design. She was schooled in formal manners from a young age, she said, as an only child to an actress and a soap opera writer. “My mom threw a lot of dinner parties, and I ended up talking to adults,” Ms. Gold said.

Dr. Katz was her professor in two classes, Egyptology and Hesiod, and her freshman adviser, but there was no romance in sight, she said, until the summer of 2017, her graduation year, and then it was a slow burn. Besides, as a Democrat and comfortably paunchy middle-aged man, he wasn’t her type.

“Most of my boyfriends were conservative, they were all pot-smoking Republicans,” she told her dinner guests later that night.

“That’s the worst,” said her husband. (Dr. Katz was married once before, at 28.)

“Solveig” — it’s pronounced SOL-vay — “has always received a lot of favorable male attention,” said her best friend from Princeton, Claire Ashmead, now a medical student at the University of Michigan. “She’s very feminine — I might describe her as ultrafeminine.” At the same time, Ms. Ashmead said, “she never pretended to be dumber than she was.”

The relationship surprised Ms. Ashmead. “What made me come to terms with the fact that Joshua was the partner she had chosen was that I don’t think any of the guys she had dated were her intellectual equal,” Ms. Ashmead said. “They are intellectually so well matched.”

Ms. Gold said she has always been a contrarian.

Her parents sent her to the all-girls Nightingale-Bamford school in Manhattan — the “Gossip Girl” school — where she wrote a column for the school paper called “Au Contraire,” on topics ranging from a defense of Sarah Palin (which she said she would probably not write today) to an endorsement of watching old black-and-white movies. She registered to vote Republican at age 18, mostly to be different on the liberal Upper West Side, she said.

On the night of the dinner, the couple had just returned from a brief decompression trip to Amsterdam and Cambridge, England, where Ms. Gold is completing her Ph.D. in classics. She just submitted her dissertation tracing “the metaphorical language of slavery across the Platonic corpus.” In her introduction, she writes, “the very use of slavery as a metaphor may be hideous to many (although the enduring popularity of Britney Spears’s 2001 hit song, ‘I’m a Slave 4 U,' suggests that the metaphor has survived somewhat unscathed).” She relishes that it’s a “hot button” topic, but fears that “the woke people in classics won’t read it because it’s by me.”

Her dinner guests, on the other hand, position themselves as the resistance to intellectual conformity.

There was Robert P. George, 66, a professor of jurisprudence, in the chair once held by the now ignominious Woodrow Wilson. The New York Times Magazine once called Professor George the country’s “most influential conservative Christian thinker,” for his role in laying the intellectual groundwork for the fights against marriage equality and abortion rights. He founded the James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions, where Ms. Gold is senior research assistant, and where another dinner guest, Bradford Wilson, 71, is executive director.

Professor George’s family — West Virginia coal miner stock — believed in Jesus, F.D.R., Democrats and the United Mine Workers of America, he said. He arrived in a natty three-piece off-white suit with a bottle of 1997 Meursault.

During the pandemic, Professor George has been presiding over an almost weekly Zoom meeting called “the Friday Group,” where about 30 regulars — mostly professors, but also alumni, including Ms. Gold, and some students — get together to talk about threats to academic freedom and to socialize.

Also in attendance at the dinner: Edgar Choueiri, 60, compact, bearded, lover of Bach, an expert at Princeton in spacecraft propulsion and 3-D audio, with his more reserved wife, Martina Baillie, 43, a land-use lawyer. Frustrated by political labels, Professor Choueiri pronounced himself a libertine. “Martina and I feel that we have been on a human level, part of the support of someone who has been going through hell,” he said. (They bring Ms. Gold and Dr. Katz pastries on bad days.)

And finally there was Abigail Anthony, 22, an ex-ballerina and the current vice president of the Princeton Open Campus Coalition, the organization Ms. Gold helped found.

Ms. Anthony stood up and left before the alcohol was served.

Can a student stay for dinner?

“If it’s not against university rules,” Dr. Katz said.

“But nobody would do it,” Ms. Anthony said.

“The professors are afraid to take students out to coffee or lunches,” Dr. Katz said. “Last I asked, a major part of education was extracurricular activity.” He added, “People are going to jump on me — ‘I know what he means by extracurricular activity.’” Later, he insisted on adding a clarification: “That’s obviously not what I mean.”

She did not anticipate the force of the backlash against her husband, Ms. Gold said, because she had voiced controversial opinions before, and had not been shunned. As an undergraduate, for instance, she wrote an essay criticizing the women’s march for providing a platform only for supporters of abortion rights. She attributes this new feeling of hostility to a culture of lock-step thinking ushered in by Gen Z, the generation right behind hers.

But Ms. Gold has in fact drawn controversy of her own in the academic world. The summer after graduation, she engaged in a very public debate with Dan-el Padilla Peralta, an associate professor of classics, a historian of Rome, who has argued that the discipline of classics has contributed to the invention of whiteness and to its domination.

In an essay entitled “The colorblind bard,” published in The New Criterion, Ms. Gold invoked Dr. Padilla, who is Black and a Dominican immigrant, as evidence that “Western Civilization does not belong to white men.” In a fierce public exchange of letters after that, he criticized her for using him as a “signifying monkey,” the way, he wrote, some people will claim a token Black friend. (Dr. Padilla did not return emails and calls for comment.)

“People went after me pretty hard,” Ms. Gold recalled. “Some professors at Princeton — people I had liked and who liked me — were horrified by what I had written. They accused me of being Kellyanne Conway and Laura Ingraham.”

She and Dr. Katz privately joked that the faculty reaction was “quite discriminatory toward blond women,” she said.

In an indication of what a fishbowl academia is, Dr. Padilla and Ms. Gold both asked Dr. Katz to read their dueling letters, and he made suggestions, Ms. Gold says. “Dan-el and I, we were not dating,” Dr. Katz said, with typical mordant humor, the evening of the dinner party.

“You weren’t dating?” Ms. Gold said, archly.

“I thought he was still my friend,” Dr. Katz replied. (Three years after that exchange, Dr. Padilla was one of the organizers of the faculty letter that so riled Dr. Katz.)

At the dinner table, Ms. Gold, wearing a checked kitchen apron over her yellow dress, sat at one end and Dr. Katz at the other. Ms. Gold said a swift prayer (“Come Lord Jesus be our guest, and let these gifts to us be blessed”) and the chilled pea soup was served.

Dr. Katz previously had a cultural interest in religion, but her faith has rubbed off on him. “I don’t think he ever had taken seriously the idea of actually believing in anything until he started dating me,” she said. Both of them have published in First Things, a conservative religious journal founded by her godfather, Richard Neuhaus.

Dr. Choueiri offered a toast: “When Solveig becomes, I don’t know, the next Nancy Pelosi. …,” he began.

“God, no,” Professor George objected.

“Replaces Nancy Pelosi is what I wanted to say,” Dr. Choueiri said. “Or becomes the next Schumer. I can say: this lady, I hired her to perform at my party with her a cappella group, the Tigerlilies.”

Ms. Gold said she once aspired to be a cross between Professor George and Mary Beard, the iconoclastic Cambridge University popularizer of classics. Now she is less certain that she has a future in the academy, but would like to write about public issues.

They are going to start house-hunting in Washington, D.C., where Dr. Katz is a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. “Somehow one thing led to another and he ended up in the position that I had imagined for myself,” his wife said.

bule bulak oying (cat), Sunday, 3 July 2022 18:43 (three years ago)

My wife used to work in the main library at Princeton. I related some of this story to her and she said, "Yeah, OK, I remember that guy. He was in a lot, and he was a gaping asshole."

but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 3 July 2022 18:45 (three years ago)

maybe i shld have hideytagged all that

bule bulak oying (cat), Sunday, 3 July 2022 18:46 (three years ago)

My god, when I was in grad school every single professor was either sleeping with students or had married one of their students, and the Graduate TAs were sleeping with their undergrad students.

There were no boundaries at all—one of my professors would call me at late hours for long chats, professors were always at the student parties and bars

F'kin Magnetometers, how do they work? (President Keyes), Sunday, 3 July 2022 18:52 (three years ago)

archive.ph for all your paywall evading needs IMO

papal hotwife (milo z), Sunday, 3 July 2022 18:52 (three years ago)

Not to derail but the reason I posted that in this thread was stuff like

She set the long rectangular table in the grass precisely, with a Wedgewood-blue and white tablecloth, cloth napkins tied up in yellow ribbons, place cards inked in a neat cursive hand and melamine dishes in a Provençal design.

...

At the dinner table, Ms. Gold, wearing a checked kitchen apron over her yellow dress, sat at one end and Dr. Katz at the other. Ms. Gold said a swift prayer (“Come Lord Jesus be our guest, and let these gifts to us be blessed”) and the chilled pea soup was served.

I saw Emily Nussbaum on twitter claim the article was actually a subversive "character assassination" and while I can't imagine anyone sympathizing with the subject, I'm not persuaded that was the intent. But I get why you'd think that with the weird NYT house style for covering elites applied to these despicable people. Plus, with apols to the paywalled, the photo of the full party is brutal

rob, Sunday, 3 July 2022 19:21 (three years ago)

I'm often disgusted with The NY Times sanitizing fascists & then I remember that 2 weeks before Hitler invaded Poland, NYT published a profile of Hitler hanging out at his mansion.

"He likes to see color on the table & excellent tomatoes are supplied from nearby greenhouses." pic.twitter.com/QVCFg10A3C

— David Sirota (@davidsirota) July 1, 2022

F'kin Magnetometers, how do they work? (President Keyes), Sunday, 3 July 2022 19:33 (three years ago)

Fwiw, in my undergraduate days, there were certainly times when i went out for meals with faculty, or had a beer with a professor. Not really sure what’s so wrong with that? Now if the prof had tried to kiss me or something, that’s definitely not okay. But like, my advisor taking me to lunch when I’ve told him I’m in a mental health crisis and need to leave school? That’s what a good prof does, afaic! That guy saved my life!

broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Sunday, 3 July 2022 20:57 (three years ago)

I find it very easy to distinguish that story from that of the classics or philosophy prof who believes in the erotics of education and thinks it should be part of the normal course of the semester to socialize with the students. Like, I think most professors can distinguish between "go beyond the usual boundaries because this student is having a mental health crisis" and "go beyond the usual boundaries because I'm hoping this student might be into me."

Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 3 July 2022 21:39 (three years ago)

I guess what I think is that there's nothing intrinsically wrong with having a beer with students just like I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with drinking beer. But if you find out about yourself that when you drink beer, you black out and drive drunk and get in fights, it is not OK for YOU to drink beer, at least not without some serious work on yourself. And if you find out about yourself that when you have beer with students, you sometimes end up fucking them, then it's not OK for YOU to have beer with students, at least not without some serious work on yourself, because you have not been honest with yourself about what your actual motives are. That's how I see it, anyway.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 3 July 2022 21:43 (three years ago)

Odd for NYT to say Princeton fired Joshua Katz for a single relationship (odder still to imply the real reason was his “anti-wokeness”). A @princetonian investigation found at least three separate cases of alleged misconduct. pic.twitter.com/4tEUYTQJrk

— Megan Greenwell (@megreenwell) July 2, 2022

Osama bin Chinese (gyac), Sunday, 3 July 2022 23:20 (three years ago)

aaaaaaaaaaaaaah fuck we're being played aren't we

one of her parents' influential connections had the story planted so we'd all scoff and ghouls would rush in to defend her from the heartless scoffers and next week she's awarded a show on fox news

bule bulak oying (cat), Sunday, 3 July 2022 23:53 (three years ago)

the future continues to find new ways to be garbage

bule bulak oying (cat), Sunday, 3 July 2022 23:54 (three years ago)

the future nyt continues to find new ways to be garbage

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 4 July 2022 03:31 (three years ago)

holy shit this @ this fucking thing. they really bout to do it huh. ‘hey don’t fret you can be a rich learned aesthete and just play footsie with fashy sentiment now. very chill, very cool.

no one wants to twerk anymore (will), Tuesday, 5 July 2022 00:18 (three years ago)

"I had the good, godly kind of abortion, not the kind you sluts used to be able to get."

but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 5 July 2022 16:16 (three years ago)

good lord, if the right of the wealthy to speculate on the inflationary art market isn't sacred then what is??!? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/06/arts/design/chagall-sothebys-expert-panel.html

assert (matttkkkk), Thursday, 7 July 2022 00:11 (three years ago)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/08/nyregion/abortion-access-texas-new-york.html

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 10 July 2022 15:47 (three years ago)

https://i.imgur.com/dmJXu1f.jpg

o rly

Tracer Hand, Sunday, 10 July 2022 16:01 (three years ago)

My favorite is

“Young women may say, ‘I’m not planning on getting an abortion,’” Janice Reals Ellig

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition, Janice.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Sunday, 10 July 2022 16:05 (three years ago)

NYT: What if we just became The Onion pic.twitter.com/0zSCwOXzVK

— Mindy Furano (@MindyFurano) July 16, 2022

papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 18 July 2022 00:35 (three years ago)

It's like horseshoe theory, but the ends of the horseshoe are the NY Times and Sassy.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 18 July 2022 00:42 (three years ago)

I for one support the hot economy. can they couple it w uni hc?

no one wants to twerk anymore (will), Monday, 18 July 2022 01:19 (three years ago)

Hotness is not longer just in the eye of the beholder, it's in the fork of the diner.

nickn, Monday, 18 July 2022 01:41 (three years ago)

^^^ underrated steve winwood album

Doctor Casino, Monday, 18 July 2022 02:28 (three years ago)

i've got my own pasta to twirl

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Monday, 18 July 2022 03:40 (three years ago)

Britain Girds for Scorching Heat That Could Break Records
Extreme Heat Continues Its March Across Western Europe
Heat Wave In Texas and Central Plains Could Be the Hottest Yet
Can’t Talk, I’m Busy Being Hot

jmm, Monday, 18 July 2022 03:54 (three years ago)

not today satan

rob, Thursday, 21 July 2022 15:02 (three years ago)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-upper-middle-class-is-getting-squeezed-11658741402

paywall bypass - https://archive.ph/60MOo

Mark Yu had a profitable pandemic. Like many Americans, he added to his savings and pulled in big gains from the stock-market rally. He purchased a house in his new hometown of McAllen, Texas, then a duplex and an eight-unit apartment complex in Cleveland.

But 2022 hasn’t been so kind.

Heartbreaking, really.

papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 01:08 (three years ago)

I'm sorry but if you own two houses and an apartment building it does not matter to you how much gas costs. Don't get me wrong, it matters to a lot of people. But it does not matter to Mark Yu.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 01:31 (three years ago)

“had a profitable pandemic”

i know it’s a common phrase but it still contains such depths of evil

CYANIDE MUKBANG (cat), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 02:06 (three years ago)

similar vibe phrase

"The war was a modest headwind" to year-on-year growth, says Google CFO Ruth Porat in a brief aside on earnings call that I now have stuck in my head, possibly permanently

— Will Oremus (@WillOremus) July 26, 2022

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 03:43 (three years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.