The Fall of Roe v Wade: US Politics, June 2022

HAVE YOU NO SENSE OF REALITY more like

Sobriety

Instructive.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/14/how-trump-radicalized-tom-rice-00039287

Lol Giuliani deleted both tweets

Rudy is Renfield to Trump's Dracula.

I think this op-ed from the LA Times does an excellent job of spelling out some of the thornier consequences of overturning Roe v Wade:

Leave abortion law to the states? Just look at the Fugitive Slave Act to see how that will go
Ronald J. Granieri

Why not leave abortion to the states?

One of the most common arguments made by those who want to downplay the significance of Supreme Court Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr.’s leaked draft opinion in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health is that it would not make abortion illegal. Rather, it would merely return the abortion debate to the legislative sphere, where it belongs. Individual states would pass their own abortion laws, as restrictive or nonrestrictive as their electorate wants them to be.

There is a certain soothing quality to that argument. But issues of individual rights bearing such heavy moral weight cannot be contained within state boundaries. “Let’s leave it up to the states” will quickly become “we expect other states to comply with our laws and will demand federal action to guarantee it” — and one only needs to look at the Fugitive Slave Act to highlight the very real constitutional challenge before us.

Slavery remains a moral stain on the history of the republic. It demonstrated the weaknesses of American federalism when faced with fundamental issues of human rights. Even as individual states chose different paths on slavery, the question of how to manage relations between slave and free states, and what to do about people who traveled across state lines, became a persistent problem. The Fugitive Slave Act, a revision of a 1793 statute enacted as part of the Compromise of 1850, aimed to offer a legal solution. It allowed California to enter the Union as a free state, but required all states, even those that did not allow slavery within their boundaries, to cooperate with the forcible return of escaped enslaved people.

Moral and legal complexities multiplied. There was the internal warfare of “bleeding Kansas” where pro- and anti-slavery militias fought for control of the territory, and the barbarity of the Dred Scott decision, which denied enslaved people human rights even if they lived in free states. Allowing slavery anywhere required protecting it everywhere. Subsequent compromises that favored popular sovereignty, allowing local majorities to endorse or reject slavery, never satisfied pro-slavery factions if they lost out, and anti-slavery states proved reluctant to help slave catchers.

Federalism did more to exacerbate regional divisions on slavery than solve them. This is the context for Abraham Lincoln’s proclamation that the nation could not continue “half slave and half free.” Indeed, when South Carolina announced its decision to secede in December 1860, its grievances included the charge that the federal government had not done enough to ensure that all states enforced the Fugitive Slave Act. Denouncing “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery,” which “led to a disregard of their obligations,” South Carolinians claimed the northern states had essentially canceled the Constitution. By this logic, there could be no guarantee of any state’s rights unless other states respected and supported them. Enforcement of state laws could not end at the state line.

State legislation of abortion could easily create similar paradoxes, especially considering the mobility of people, ideas and goods in our globally linked world. Citizens in a state that bans abortion could travel to other states for the procedure, if they have the means. Gov. Gavin Newsom has made it clear that California will welcome out-of-state patients and Connecticut has already passed a new law protecting medical providers who treat patients from other states. Some large employers, such as Tesla, have recently signaled their willingness to support employees who need to travel to another state for medical care.

Yet the drafters of Mississippi’s abortion law did not go to all this trouble to overturn Roe v. Wade just see it persist elsewhere. Texas’ anti-abortion law already criminalizes aid to women who want an abortion — does that include those who provide travel assistance to a more permissive state? What if a resident of a state that allows abortion has a medical emergency while visiting a restrictive state and cannot travel home?

Florida’s recent struggle with Walt Disney Co. after its leadership spoke out against the so-called “Don’t say gay” bill indicates how states might deal with businesses that challenge their abortion legislation. Furthermore, in an era when medication abortions already make up more than half of the U.S. total, what happens when a state forbids its citizens from ordering such drugs by mail or seeking consultations by telemedicine with a practitioner in a permissive state?

The paradox of states eventually demanding federal recognition and support for their particular laws applies to more than just abortion. In the 20th century, locale-by-locale alcohol prohibition led to a constitutional amendment (and then to its repeal); marijuana laws and gun rights raise similar problems today. States struggle to manage different local laws on issues with which people deeply disagree, as do citizens, especially if they regularly travel from one jurisdiction to another.

Federalism, which allows individual states to become laboratories of democracy by experimenting with different approaches to public problems, is one of the great strengths of our constitutional order. But the republic has to guarantee some baseline rights shared by all citizens, which imposes limitations on how widely states can diverge.

There are few options for resolving conflicts among state laws. The Constitution can be amended, which takes time and requires a great deal of consensus. Or Congress can pass national legislation. If neither happens the issue lands at the Supreme Court.

That was the reality that led to Roe in the first place, and it has not changed. Tossing the issue back to the states, as the Alito draft proposes, will not bring the country any closer to a resolution on abortion rights — it will just open up 50 new fronts in the fight. The formal decision on Dobbs will not be the last federal word on abortion. This isn’t the end of the controversy; we’re barely at the start.

Ronald J. Granieri is a history professor at the U.S. Army War College and a fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute.

yeah p much anybody that thinks 'leaving it to the states' is ok is a fuckin dum-dum.

Most people need to be taken by the hand and gently escorted to this kind of thinking because, if they've ever ever heard of the Fugitive Slave Act or Dred Scott Decision, they've forgotten what they were.

Yep, we're headed for 50 separate but interlocking fights at the state level, plus a nonstop fight at the federal level. The anti-abortion people will stay active even in places like New York and California, in the same way they've stayed active for the past 40 years of ups and downs in a country where abortion was legal. And in red states that have already or will quickly outlaw abortion, there will be a neverending spiral of tighter and tighter restrictions like those already floated this year in Louisiana and Missouri. Plus of course it will be a rallying cry for both parties at the national level, trying to pass national legislation. It was always a fantasy that overturning Roe would settle anything, but I'm not sure anyone is really prepared for the nonstop hand-to-hand combat this is going to become. (For the rest of the lifetimes of everyone on this board, probably, if not longer.)

It's definitely set up a weird situation with interstate prosecutions.. if I go play blackjack in Las Vegas, they can't bust me for gambling when I get back to Little Rock; not yet, at least

But maybe someone in Arkansas can sue me for gambling?

I am suing you right now from Missouri for gambling, you need to get your life under control

many other lawsuits forthcoming on a variety of topics and to many different people. as i understand from following american politics, what i'm supposed to do is throw a bunch of shit on the wall and see what sticks. at least something will, unless my plan just doesn't make any sense at all, and what are the odds of that? (don't answer that Andy, that's a trick question for the lawsuit)

Sometimes I think a fun question for committed culture war MAGAs would be: How many abortions do you think Trump has personally paid for? Between the ex-wives he traded in right before the buzzer, his multiple mistresses, sex-workers etc., it’s got be a lot, right? Then you figure Ivanka’s pre-Jared years must have been an absolute parade of dicks. No judgment, girl. Get your swerve on. And then you *know* those two imbecilic sons did some serial date r*ping in their day. Can’t have evidence of that just out there walking around. Surely Melania’s had her share of boyfriends and the concomitant slips and spills.

I figure it’s gotta be about 4 dozen. 4 dozen abortions that he’s personally financed. Hell let’s call it an even 50. I wonder if he has an earmarked account, just to pay for all the abortions.

he got the Planned Parenthood calendar, mug, AND tote bag.. frequent flyer card

they could literally show the receipts on live TV and it would not move the needle one inch. they're allowed to, you aren't. that's the game!

let's not relitigate the past

I wonder if he has an earmarked account, just to pay for all the abortions.

Through the foundation. Only a chump pays for his own abortions.

“Hey MAGAland, we need $50 from all of The Donald’s biggest supporters to Stop CRT, Restore America, and offset some of these abortions.”

"Cohen, you got this? I, uh, forgot my checkbook."

"Yes, sir."

New: Jan. 6 committee teases next hearing with Trump White House lawyer Eric Herschmann telling John Eastman after Jan. 6: “I’m going to give you the best free legal advice you’re ever getting in your life: get a great fucking criminal defense lawyer.”

— Hugo Lowell (@hugolowell) June 14, 2022

This oughta be fun:

South Florida synagogue sues over Florida’s new 15-week abortion ban

A South Florida Jewish congregation has challenged a new state law that blocks abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy, contending the measure violates privacy and religious-freedom rights.

The lawsuit, filed Friday in Leon County circuit court by Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor, seeks to block the law from taking effect July 1. Abortion clinics also filed a lawsuit this month in Leon County challenging the constitutionality of the restriction.

Both cases include allegations that the law, signed by Gov. Ron DeSantis in April, violates a privacy right in the Florida Constitution that has long played a pivotal role in abortion cases in the state.

But the lawsuit filed Friday by the Boynton Beach congregation also contends that the law violates religious-freedom rights.

“For Jews, all life is precious and thus the decision to bring new life into the world is not taken lightly or determined by state fiat,” the lawsuit said. “In Jewish law, abortion is required if necessary to protect the health, mental or physical well-being of the woman, or for many other reasons not permitted under the act [the new law]. As such, the act prohibits Jewish women from practicing their faith free of government intrusion and thus violates their privacy rights and religious freedom.”

So the same group that targeted Madison Cawthorn is out with a press release saying Lauren Boebert worked as an escort, had two abortions, and met Ted Cruz through one of her escort clients. (Cruz supposedly the one who encouraged her to run for office.)

Kinda hate the idea of her being bounced because of either escort work or abortions. There are plenty of perfectly good reasons to vote her out.

All I can manage is “wow,” but also, “wow” is all I’ve been saying for the past 6-7 years. With various inflections.

Really fearful we're getting Cruz dick pics very soon.

Every picture of Ted Cruz is a dick pic.

feel like Jacob Wohl would've been so much more successful as a Dem operative - even if you were just making shit up your "investigative journalism" would probably turn up a bunch of shit anyway

Kinda hate the idea of her being bounced because of either escort work or abortions.

All is fair in love or culture war.

The timeline on this Boebert stuff seems a bit suspect: she was already pretty publicly involved in local politics in late '19, when it's claimed she was (still?) escorting and introduced to Cruz.

Why is that suspicious?

And--money woes aside--wasn't she already a bit of a local celebrity for having a gun restaurant?

XP It just seems really weird that she was known in the community AND using her real name on an escort site.

I mean, she's no rocket scientist, but...

This is one of the oldest and most effective tricks in politics. Every hack in the business has used it in times of trouble, and it has even been elevated to the level of political mythology in a story about one of Lyndon Johnson’s early campaigns in Texas. The race was close and Johnson was getting worried. Finally he told his campaign manager to start a massive rumor campaign about his opponent’s life-long habit of enjoying carnal knowledge of his own barnyard sows.

“Christ, we can’t get a way with calling him a pig-fucker,” the campaign manager protested. “Nobody’s going to believe a thing like that.”

“I know,” Johnson replied. “But let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.” — Hunter Thompson, Fear & Loathing On The Campaign Trail '72

I mean, she's no rocket scientist, but...

Don't put it past people with ... less than rocket scientist credentials to act the part. Isn't she a high school drop out, like Cawthorn was? Plus, Beetbort, she's been arrested a few times, right? And so has her husband (for exposing himself to minors?)? Her shittiness precedes this admittedly suspect claim, but at the same time, look at her cohort and their (track) records. Gaetz, Cawthorn, Jordan ... a bunch of sleazebag goons.

Definitely not being reported anywhere reputable, but it's awfully specific. Isn't the group behind it mostly Republicans?

Anyway even the uncontested stuff about Boebert is already high drama reality TV material.

Plenty of high school dropouts are plenty intelligent, fwiw, so not sure what that has to do with anything

Sure, there are intelligent people who couldn’t fit in with the rigors of school who dropped out, and then educated themselves via reading, museums, galleries etc. Boebert is not that person.

This attack is definitely aimed at Republicans. We already have enough reason to hate Boebert. I have to think someone wants to purge the embarrassments from the party before they take control of Congress again.

But deploying that fact as evidence of anyone’s lack of intelligence is ridiculous, is what Im trying to say, especially in the case of a fascist sociopath like Boebert.

Kinda hate the idea of her being bounced because of either escort work or abortions.

Don't waste tears on someone who'd point and laugh at your corpse lying in the street.

Yeah, sorry, I'm not going to waste an ounce of sympathy on her.

Police in Idaho said they’ve received death threats after arresting dozens of suspected members of a white supremacist group right before they allegedly planned to riot at an LGBTQ Pride event Saturday.

Coeur d’Alene police received about 150 calls in the two days after making the arrests, Chief Lee White told reporters Monday at a news conference. In about half of them, callers identified themselves and praised the police department for stopping the 31 men, who are accused of having ties to Patriot Front, which the Anti-Defamation League identifies as a hate group.

“And the other 50 percent — who are completely anonymous and want nothing more than to scream and yell at us and use some really choice words — offered death threats against myself and other members of the police department merely for doing our jobs,” White said, adding that they’ve gotten calls from as far away as Norway.

it's interesting that the police, at least in Idaho, are now being treated as malleable politicians -- people call in, registering their approval or disapproval

Aren't death threats a crime? Assuming caller ID and calls being recorded, put out warrants for those morons.

adding that they’ve gotten calls from as far away as Norway

*sigh*

the real news is that Coeur d’Alene had a pride event

Varg vikernes has a lot of free time

^^^ Was going to make the same joke about Anders Breivik.

“What up”

https://january6th.house.gov/sites/democrats.january6th.house.gov/files/2022-6-15.BGT%20Letter%20to%20Representative%20Loudermilk%20linked%5b10%5d%5b6%5d.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3uGieJmfzYLP_UuQ2KB16G4hPojVc299op2pIr-qAZiEksKIu2bZopBoc

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/election-denier-becomes-gop-nominee-for-nevadas-top-election-official

Nevada Republicans’ nominee to be the state’s next top election officials thinks Donald Trump won the 2020 election and says he would not have certified Joe Biden’s victory in the state, even though the Democrat won with more than a 2% margin.

The GOP secretary of state nominee, Jim Marchant, a former state assembly member, lost by an even worse margin in his 2020 bid for the U.S. House of Representatives — nearly 5% — but nonetheless sued to overturn the results, and still claims to be a “victim of election fraud.”

The candidate — who told an audience in February that “Your vote hasn’t counted for decades” — called his primary win a “historic night on the road for election integrity.”

Marchant was on hand for the signing of a slate of fake Trump electors in 2020, and later told The Guardian that he would support another slate of presidential electors contrary to the actual presidential election results in 2024: “That is very possible, yes,” Marchant said.