Where Are We Runnin’? - American Politics Thread, May 2022

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People go to college because there are fewer and fewer jobs that provide a living wage you can get without a four-year degree. that won't change until companies stop listing it as a basic job requirement. Once "trade schools" have the same prevalence in job listings as a bachelor's degree the institutions that award them will start charging exorbitant tuition too. And it'll still be used a quick and legal way to weed out the majority of applicants in a market with far more applicants than jobs.

I'd also force companies that hired college grads to pay the student loan debts of their hires. They're the ones that chiefly benefit from the education, so they should be paying the cost of it.

Jaime Pressly and America (f. hazel), Monday, 9 May 2022 18:13 (two years ago) link

I wish I'd become a union plumber

And you get paid while you're training, rather than paying for it

My late stepdad was a union electrician (Int'l Brotherhood) and made a boatload of money, more than I'll ever make

Andy the Grasshopper, Monday, 9 May 2022 18:54 (two years ago) link

i work for a trade school and we are working directly with employers to remove degree requirements. they have to play along, they don't really have a choice in this market xx

global tetrahedron, Monday, 9 May 2022 18:58 (two years ago) link

The trades suck, don't pay particularly well (outside of some heavily unionized states) and destroy your body. Every single plumber/HVAC/electrician I grew up around (because my father and grandfather were roofers before going into more general contracting) had awful back and knee problems - sometimes multiple surgeries (and sometimes not, because surgery is expensive and it's not really a gold plan insurance included with your job kind of world). 99% of the time I hear someone pining about the glories of the trades, they themselves have a college degree and work in air conditioning.

papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 9 May 2022 19:28 (two years ago) link

They all wound up dead early (because working class men) or had to go to work for Lowe's or Home Depot when they aged out of being able to climb up a ladder into an attic to work for eight hours in 105F heat.

papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 9 May 2022 19:30 (two years ago) link

.@POTUS strongly believes in the Constitutional right to protest. But that should never include violence, threats, or vandalism. Judges perform an incredibly important function in our society, and they must be able to do their jobs without concern for their personal safety.

— Jen Psaki (@PressSec) May 9, 2022

papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 9 May 2022 19:35 (two years ago) link

Meet 5/9--the new 1/6

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 9 May 2022 19:42 (two years ago) link

Every single plumber/HVAC/electrician I grew up around (because my father and grandfather were roofers before going into more general contracting) had awful back and knee problems

Yeah, my uncle was an independent handyman for the last 20 years or so of his career. He was a big guy, and by the time he got to age 60, it got really hard for him to do the work — climbing ladders, getting under porches, etc. He basically had to retire early and go on disability, which was not much of a retirement. His oldest son had to move in to take care of him until he died.

I do think you can do all right at the levels a couple above where my uncle was, he wasn't a skilled electrician or anything like that. But it's true that almost all of the trades are hard and physical work, and outside of union jobs don't have great benefits.

As my grandfather said, "Of course work sucks — that's why they have to pay you to do it."

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:41 (two years ago) link

all jobs under capitalism require sacrificing some part of your body or soul to constant repetition and degradation.

the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:45 (two years ago) link

there's education and then there's institutional education as it exists in the united states, two very different things that very very occasionally coincide.

the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:49 (two years ago) link

all jobs under capitalism require sacrificing some part of your body or soul to constant repetition and degradation.

― the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map)

like bad sex

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:49 (two years ago) link

--Bob Marley

bahd sex

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:52 (two years ago) link

Not all jobs under capitalism carry similar risks of heatstroke or ‘cutting off a finger.’

papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:53 (two years ago) link

well, you can get an MBA and cut figurative and occasionally literal fingers from the working class

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:54 (two years ago) link

Outside of the 'trades' (i.e. construction trades), there are plenty of other occupations that would fit in well with vocational education - i.e auto repair, small engine repair, electronics, piano tuning, etc. Somebody has to know how to actually make the wine and fix pumps and shit like that, beyond the college-educated folks and the horrendous debt that many of them accrue

So yeah, I think trade schools are a great idea for those who don't feel drawn to a tradition 4 year education.. Germany has a great apprenticeship program that's very popular, we could use something like that

Andy the Grasshopper, Monday, 9 May 2022 21:55 (two years ago) link

Whew, we can all relax

Senate Minority Mitch McConnell on national abortion ban: “I will never -- never -- support smashing the legislative filibuster on this issue or any other.” via @StevenTDennis https://t.co/t8ZIJhpP3m

— Zach C. Cohen (@Zachary_Cohen) May 9, 2022

JoeStork, Monday, 9 May 2022 22:10 (two years ago) link

The problem with fetishism of manual labor by non-manual laborers is that the weight of this coughcough better choice inevitably falls on the already economically disadvantaged. It's not going to be Tim Ryan's child shuffled into the 'vocational track' in school or encouraged to give money to a for-profit trade school afterward.

papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 9 May 2022 22:10 (two years ago) link

trade schools don't teach that pesky critical thinking stuff either, here in WI the GOP types love them and fund them like crazy while the state university system gets cut and downsized

New Course: CRT & The Art of F-450 Maintenance

.@SpeakerPelosi: "I want the Republican Party to take back the party to where you were when you cared about a woman's right to choose, you cared about the environment. Here I am, Nancy Pelosi, saying this country needs a strong Republican Party. Not a cult." pic.twitter.com/h12SSFQKdk

— The Hill (@thehill) May 9, 2022

papal hotwife (milo z), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 02:26 (two years ago) link

It’s rough because not everyone can move out of the physical part of the trades, but I have family who have both been union and then went into management to run a union shop (construction trades) and a close friend who ended up moving into a salaried position after being in the machinists union for a number of years

there’s also going into a union role as opposed to a union-represented role because there’s a need for instructors, reps, etc

that still leaves a large number of people that fall into the cracks, but with union representation you end up with better rotation within a role, etc, that minimizes the chance of rsi and so on, and a chance to file grievances

got to listen to my dad complain a little recently about how his former coworkers went to a job fair to recruit and didn’t push people into the union training as aggressively as he’d like, and that felt nice

mh, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 03:19 (two years ago) link

xp is there another political party anywhere on Earth whose leaders say they "need" a strong opposition party. It sounds as deranged as the Joker saying he and Batman need each other. Of course what she feels she needs it for is to form a coalition to keep her own party's base in check.

Most people currently alive have never heard of Republicans formerly caring about the issues she cites, unless she's talking about Nixon's era when they were slightly more indifferent to them.

Chris L, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 07:41 (two years ago) link

it’s a pretty common trope in british politics actually, though usually deployed smugly after some spectacular bout of self-immolation by the opposition

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 09:55 (two years ago) link

The main one I can think of is Conservatives/Republicans as stewards of the land/conservationists whereas now they’re all climate change cynics/deniers.

the thin blue lying (suzy), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 09:59 (two years ago) link

Good morning!

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 10:06 (two years ago) link

Pelosi fucking sucks but I feel like she says that stuff to troll Republicans sometimes

frogbs, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 11:53 (two years ago) link

Nah. Paul Campos otm:

I think what Pelosi was trying to convey was something like "we need a neoliberal party to check the excesses of a genuine social democratic party." (The excesses being taxing Nancy Pelosi et. al. at "unreasonable" rates).

The problem is that we already have the former party. She's the legislative head of it in fact. What we don't have in any form anywhere is the latter. Instead we have a theocratic authoritarian ethno-nationalist party that considers the neoliberals to be the equivalent of Stalin and Mao.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 12:27 (two years ago) link

...or Che Quevara!

Desantis is mad today about college students wearing Che Guevara (which he can’t pronounce) tee shirts. Meanwhile, FL has an affordable housing problem facing crisis levels that he doesn’t seem to care about. pic.twitter.com/snic7lBFVD

— Ron Filipkowski 🇺🇦 (@RonFilipkowski) May 9, 2022

Such is the state of the modern day conservative that I can come away from an obit like this thinking, she seemed fun...

NEW YORK (AP) — Midge Decter, a leading neoconservative writer and commentator who in blunt and tenacious style helped lead the right’s attack in the culture wars as she opposed the rise of feminism, affirmative action and the gay rights movement, has died at age 94.

Decter, the wife of retired Commentary editor and fellow neoconservative Norman Podhoretz, died Monday at her home in Manhattan. Daughter Naomi Decter said her health had been failing, but did not cite a specific cause of death.

Like her husband, Midge Decter was a onetime Democrat repelled in the ’60s and after by what she called “heedless and mindless leftist politics and intellectual and artistic nihilism.” Confrontation energized her: She was a popular speaker, a prolific writer and, as she described it, “the requisite bad guy on discussion panels” about the cultural issues of the moment. Her books included “Liberal Parents, Radical Children,” “The New Chastity” and the memoir “An Old Wife’s Tale.”

In 2003, she received a National Humanities Medal, cited as one who “has never shied from controversy.”

Calling herself an “ardent ideologue,” she faulted affirmative action for causing “massive seizures of self-doubt” among Black people. She attacked gays as reckless and irresponsible, and alleged that they had removed themselves from “the tides of ordinary mortal existence.”

Feminism was her special target. “The Libbers,” as she called them, “had created a generation of self-centered and unsatisfied women ‘hopping from marriage to marriage,’ resenting their children for limiting their personal freedom and pressuring themselves to have careers they might not have wanted.

The real agenda of feminism was to leave a woman “as unformed, as able to act without genuine consequence, as the little girl she imagines she once was and longs to continue to be,” Decter wrote.

Her opinions were not left unanswered.

The poet and activist Adrienne Rich once wrote that Decter suffered from “a strange lack of information about the unfilled needs, let alone the enormous destructiveness, of the social order which she so admires.” Responding to a 1980 article by Decter about gay people, Gore Vidal remarked that “she has managed not only to come up with every known prejudice and superstition about same-sexers but also to make up some brand-new ones.”

Decter, Vidal added, “writes with the authority and easy confidence of someone who knows that she is very well known indeed to those few who know her.”

In her early years, Decter did not uphold tradition; she challenged it. Born Midge Rosenthal in St. Paul, Minnesota, in 1927, she was the youngest of three girls and, apparently, the loudest. “Annoyingly talkative” was her family’s consensus, she recalled, underlined by “a certain note of turbulence.”

As a teenager, she acted out, 1940s style — cutting school on occasion to smoke, swear, drink “gallons” of Pepsi and talk about boys and sex. She dreamed a liberal dream. Visits to relatives in Brooklyn left her longing for the “bustle and the smells and the variety” of a big city. She dropped out of the University of Minnesota and transferred to New York’s Jewish Theological Seminary.

In 1948, she married Jewish activist Moshe Decter and for a time lived in leftist paradise, Greenwich Village. Her decision to divorce her first husband had a similar ring to the words of an imagined suburban housewife (“Is this all there is?”) in a book Decter would very much dislike, Betty Friedan’s “The Feminine Mystique.”

“Divorce begins in that moment when one looks into the mirror and says, ‘Is THIS all there is going to be forever?’” Decter wrote in her memoir, published in 2001.

She doubted the modern wish to “have it all,” but Decter managed a full life of family, work and material comfort. She was married more than 50 years to Podhoretz and had four children, two with each husband. (All four worked in journalism and son John Podhoretz eventually became editor of Commentary). She wrote for several publications, from The Weekly Standard to The New Republic. She was an editor at Basic Books and executive editor at Harper’s magazine, where she helped work on what became Norman Mailer’s award-winning book “The Armies of the Night.” She founded the anti-Communist “Committee for the Free World” and was a member of the conservative watchdog Accuracy in Media.

Her turn to the right, like her husband’s, was personal and political. She and Podhoretz were longtime Manhattan residents who had socialized with Mailer, Lillian Hellman and others from whom they became bitterly estranged. In her memoir, Decter accused her leftist opponents of not simply disagreeing with their country, but wishing for its downfall — an attitude she feared would spread to her own family.

“Living as I had been, and where I had been, I had been subjecting my own children to danger: the danger they would be worn down and jaded before they ever had the chance, or the spiritual wherewithal, to take on the chills and spills of real adulthood.” she wrote.

“Put those feelings and ideas all together, and they amounted to what would one day come to be called neoconservatism.”

Max Hamburgers (Eric H.), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 13:51 (two years ago) link

I only learned about her existence reading about her in Vidal essays.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 14:18 (two years ago) link

I imagine she’s in straight Christian heaven now, appointed as a celestial servant of rush Limbaugh’s golden mansion

You reap what you sow bitch

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 15:13 (two years ago) link

DeSantis signed into law House Bill 395, designating 7 November as Victims of Communism Day... DeSantis signed into law House Bill 395, designating 7 November as Victims of Communism Day.

Florida is one of a handful of states to adopt the designation, but is believed to be the first to mandate school instruction on that day.

The instruction will begin in the 2023-2024 school year, DeSantis said, and will require teaching about Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong and Fidel Castro, as well as “poverty, starvation, migration, systemic lethal violence, and suppression of speech” endured under their leaderships in the Soviet Union, China and Cuba respectively.

Educators in Florida are banned, however, from teaching students about racial issues, including the history of slavery, if it makes them “feel uncomfortable”, according to DeSantis’s recently signed Stop Woke Act.

STOP THE WOKE, Y'all

Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 18:10 (two years ago) link

stwoked

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 19:01 (two years ago) link

Chris Smalls is making good trouble and helping inspire a new movement of labor organizing across the country. Let’s keep it going. pic.twitter.com/oHMuVqf6TS

— President Biden (@POTUS) May 11, 2022

credit for this stuff, and for not getting us into a nuclear war

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 11 May 2022 18:32 (two years ago) link

Hahaha!

A state judge struck down new congressional districts in north Florida on Wednesday, saying that Governor Ron DeSantis, who drew the lines, had made it harder for Black voters to elect the candidate of their choice...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/11/florida-election-congressional-map-ron-desantis-judge

Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 11 May 2022 18:50 (two years ago) link

NEW: "The public views inflation as the top problem facing the United States – and no other concern comes close." https://t.co/EgdzfEDyPG pic.twitter.com/ZunGMPBDil

— John Gramlich (@johngramlich) May 12, 2022

Eggs Benedick (Eric H.), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:10 (two years ago) link

20% believe gun violence is 'not a problem at all'? wtf

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:14 (two years ago) link

Obviously the real problem is the economic structure that makes at least half the country so vulnerable to simple price fluctuations, but when you're drowning it's hard to view the larger perspective.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:29 (two years ago) link

20% believe gun violence is 'not a problem at all'? wtf

20% believe it's a "small problem". it looks like about 4% believe it's "not a problem at all". that seems about right to me - i'd say at LEAST 5% of the country are the ones who not-so-secretly harbor a desire to shoot someone before they die

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:32 (two years ago) link

not sure if this absolutely scandalous situation and incredibly frightening has been discussed here, but you'll be glad to know the government is on top of things

Just called Sen. Feinstein’s office to ask about plans for addressing the infant formula crisis, and they had no idea what I was talking about.

— Lila Byock (@LByock) May 12, 2022

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:33 (two years ago) link

yes, but not enough gun violence could also be seen as a problem

xp

Muad'Doob (Moodles), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:34 (two years ago) link

The committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol by a pro-Trump mob has subpoenaed five Republican members of Congress, including House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (Calif.), after they refused to cooperate with the panel’s inquiry.

Rep. Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.), who chairs the select committee, said Thursday that the panel has subpoenaed McCarthy and Reps. Mo Brooks (Ala.), Andy Biggs (Ariz.), Scott Perry (Pa.) and Jim Jordan (Ohio).


This should be fun

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:36 (two years ago) link

They'll continue to stonewall because they know there won't be any serious repercussions for them by doing so.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:38 (two years ago) link

Oh for sure. The question is what happens when they ignore the subpoena. I’m guessing it will be unprecedented, both sides will be shocked, and somehow it will be up to the upstanding voters of the United States of America to make their voice heard clear in an election, at which point hundreds of others of new problems will be more pressing. Just like all those lawsuits against trump which are definitely going to end with some real consequences at some point


btw trump sold the old post office pavilion that he converted into a hotel for wannabe fascists to suck his dick. It was obviously a gigantic conflict of interest from day one, no one even bothered to pretend, the contract even had a clause saying that it could not be used for anything that would provide a political benefit, etc etc. It took 6 years but they finally Settled earlier this year. I’m too lazy to look up the settlement on my stupid phone, but it was peanuts and had absolutely ZERO value of deterrence. After the settlement costs and other meaningless bullshit, trump is estimated to have made about $100M in profit on the sale. All while doing the illegal things in plain sight and bragging about it.

That’s how I expect the Jan 6 commission’s subpoenas to work out, more or less

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:45 (two years ago) link

feels like a microcosm of US politics that prominent democrats are not aware of the problem while republicans are aware of the problem and are immediately trying to use it to call for genocide pic.twitter.com/6zlNCjjKNZ

— flglmn (@flglmn) May 12, 2022

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 12 May 2022 18:11 (two years ago) link

That's a dumb tweet the way it's arranged. I put on boots to wade into Nehls' Twitter feed and, maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like he was responding to the Byock tweet, not getting ahead of it.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 12 May 2022 18:14 (two years ago) link

obviously nehls is not responding to byock? it's two tweets about the same thing.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 12 May 2022 18:19 (two years ago) link

American baby formula should go to American babies.

— Troy Nehls (@SheriffTNehls) May 12, 2022

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Thursday, 12 May 2022 18:21 (two years ago) link


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