Where Are We Runnin’? - American Politics Thread, May 2022

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (576 of them)

You see, when I was 36 years old, I did not understand the difference between integrity and loyalty.

O RLY

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Monday, 9 May 2022 14:58 (two years ago) link

wonder if he’s just sad he fell out of the news cycle after the lincoln project crap blew up

he probably has a book coming out, right?

oh, he’s specifically tweeted that he does _not_ have a book coming out. just the substack. lol

mh, Monday, 9 May 2022 15:14 (two years ago) link

i can't wait to read cindy and meghan mccain's rejoinders on their substacks

he seems the most angry at all about meghan mccain. has she just been making fun of him on the view for the last 10 years or something? i missed some of that drama on account of it involving either a steve schmidt or meghan mccain

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Monday, 9 May 2022 15:47 (two years ago) link

this kicked off yesterday after Meghan McCain liked a tweet that said that ran a pedo ring

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 9 May 2022 15:49 (two years ago) link

that he (Schmidt) ran one

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 9 May 2022 15:50 (two years ago) link

damn, i always forget that conservatives are having a moment with pedophilia right now, circular firing squad

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Monday, 9 May 2022 15:57 (two years ago) link

tbf the other project lincoln guy might have been

mh, Monday, 9 May 2022 16:08 (two years ago) link

My god can we just bring back Mr. Choppy already?

we need outrage! we need dicks!! (the table is the table), Monday, 9 May 2022 16:17 (two years ago) link

Political hatchet men turning the blade on everyone they ever collected a paycheck from is one of my favorite sports.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 9 May 2022 16:20 (two years ago) link

A winning message.

We need to get away from the idea that every kid has to go to college. Normalize treating trade school as important as a 4-year degree.

— Congressman Tim Ryan (@RepTimRyan) May 8, 2022

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 May 2022 17:00 (two years ago) link

It is tho! There is more honor in being a tradesperson than having a fucking mba

It is = it should be

college is a scam but i wonder if tim ryan is addressing the actual problem by proposing free trade school oh wait

the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map), Monday, 9 May 2022 17:25 (two years ago) link

I totally agree….but why do I have the sneaking suspicion that this refrain from the gop and Sensible Centrists Dems just amounts to more misery for normal ppl?

OG Bob Sacamano (will), Monday, 9 May 2022 17:25 (two years ago) link

Many's the day I wish I'd become a union plumber or HVAC repairman.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 9 May 2022 17:26 (two years ago) link

At a moment when public education receives less dough than ever from state capitols and academics like me get pummeled daily, getting to the right of the GOP on education is precisely what we need.

Look, kidding aside, I've been saying the same thing for years. My electrician is better educated and has more honor than an MBA (any "College of Business" is a racket). But I'm not running for Senate -- yet. Floridians, you're on notice.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 May 2022 17:34 (two years ago) link

I think trade schools are good options, and at the same time I always bristle at the right's embrace of CTE because it goes hand-in-hand with their contempt for higher education more broadly. I'm sure in their mind there's limited risk of trade schools going woke on them.

People go to college because there are fewer and fewer jobs that provide a living wage you can get without a four-year degree. that won't change until companies stop listing it as a basic job requirement. Once "trade schools" have the same prevalence in job listings as a bachelor's degree the institutions that award them will start charging exorbitant tuition too. And it'll still be used a quick and legal way to weed out the majority of applicants in a market with far more applicants than jobs.

I'd also force companies that hired college grads to pay the student loan debts of their hires. They're the ones that chiefly benefit from the education, so they should be paying the cost of it.

Jaime Pressly and America (f. hazel), Monday, 9 May 2022 18:13 (two years ago) link

I wish I'd become a union plumber

And you get paid while you're training, rather than paying for it

My late stepdad was a union electrician (Int'l Brotherhood) and made a boatload of money, more than I'll ever make

Andy the Grasshopper, Monday, 9 May 2022 18:54 (two years ago) link

i work for a trade school and we are working directly with employers to remove degree requirements. they have to play along, they don't really have a choice in this market xx

global tetrahedron, Monday, 9 May 2022 18:58 (two years ago) link

The trades suck, don't pay particularly well (outside of some heavily unionized states) and destroy your body. Every single plumber/HVAC/electrician I grew up around (because my father and grandfather were roofers before going into more general contracting) had awful back and knee problems - sometimes multiple surgeries (and sometimes not, because surgery is expensive and it's not really a gold plan insurance included with your job kind of world). 99% of the time I hear someone pining about the glories of the trades, they themselves have a college degree and work in air conditioning.

papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 9 May 2022 19:28 (two years ago) link

They all wound up dead early (because working class men) or had to go to work for Lowe's or Home Depot when they aged out of being able to climb up a ladder into an attic to work for eight hours in 105F heat.

papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 9 May 2022 19:30 (two years ago) link

.@POTUS strongly believes in the Constitutional right to protest. But that should never include violence, threats, or vandalism. Judges perform an incredibly important function in our society, and they must be able to do their jobs without concern for their personal safety.

— Jen Psaki (@PressSec) May 9, 2022

papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 9 May 2022 19:35 (two years ago) link

Meet 5/9--the new 1/6

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 9 May 2022 19:42 (two years ago) link

Every single plumber/HVAC/electrician I grew up around (because my father and grandfather were roofers before going into more general contracting) had awful back and knee problems

Yeah, my uncle was an independent handyman for the last 20 years or so of his career. He was a big guy, and by the time he got to age 60, it got really hard for him to do the work — climbing ladders, getting under porches, etc. He basically had to retire early and go on disability, which was not much of a retirement. His oldest son had to move in to take care of him until he died.

I do think you can do all right at the levels a couple above where my uncle was, he wasn't a skilled electrician or anything like that. But it's true that almost all of the trades are hard and physical work, and outside of union jobs don't have great benefits.

As my grandfather said, "Of course work sucks — that's why they have to pay you to do it."

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:41 (two years ago) link

all jobs under capitalism require sacrificing some part of your body or soul to constant repetition and degradation.

the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:45 (two years ago) link

there's education and then there's institutional education as it exists in the united states, two very different things that very very occasionally coincide.

the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:49 (two years ago) link

all jobs under capitalism require sacrificing some part of your body or soul to constant repetition and degradation.

― the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map)

like bad sex

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:49 (two years ago) link

--Bob Marley

bahd sex

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:52 (two years ago) link

Not all jobs under capitalism carry similar risks of heatstroke or ‘cutting off a finger.’

papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:53 (two years ago) link

well, you can get an MBA and cut figurative and occasionally literal fingers from the working class

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 May 2022 21:54 (two years ago) link

Outside of the 'trades' (i.e. construction trades), there are plenty of other occupations that would fit in well with vocational education - i.e auto repair, small engine repair, electronics, piano tuning, etc. Somebody has to know how to actually make the wine and fix pumps and shit like that, beyond the college-educated folks and the horrendous debt that many of them accrue

So yeah, I think trade schools are a great idea for those who don't feel drawn to a tradition 4 year education.. Germany has a great apprenticeship program that's very popular, we could use something like that

Andy the Grasshopper, Monday, 9 May 2022 21:55 (two years ago) link

Whew, we can all relax

Senate Minority Mitch McConnell on national abortion ban: “I will never -- never -- support smashing the legislative filibuster on this issue or any other.” via @StevenTDennis https://t.co/t8ZIJhpP3m

— Zach C. Cohen (@Zachary_Cohen) May 9, 2022

JoeStork, Monday, 9 May 2022 22:10 (two years ago) link

The problem with fetishism of manual labor by non-manual laborers is that the weight of this coughcough better choice inevitably falls on the already economically disadvantaged. It's not going to be Tim Ryan's child shuffled into the 'vocational track' in school or encouraged to give money to a for-profit trade school afterward.

papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 9 May 2022 22:10 (two years ago) link

trade schools don't teach that pesky critical thinking stuff either, here in WI the GOP types love them and fund them like crazy while the state university system gets cut and downsized

New Course: CRT & The Art of F-450 Maintenance

.@SpeakerPelosi: "I want the Republican Party to take back the party to where you were when you cared about a woman's right to choose, you cared about the environment. Here I am, Nancy Pelosi, saying this country needs a strong Republican Party. Not a cult." pic.twitter.com/h12SSFQKdk

— The Hill (@thehill) May 9, 2022

papal hotwife (milo z), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 02:26 (two years ago) link

It’s rough because not everyone can move out of the physical part of the trades, but I have family who have both been union and then went into management to run a union shop (construction trades) and a close friend who ended up moving into a salaried position after being in the machinists union for a number of years

there’s also going into a union role as opposed to a union-represented role because there’s a need for instructors, reps, etc

that still leaves a large number of people that fall into the cracks, but with union representation you end up with better rotation within a role, etc, that minimizes the chance of rsi and so on, and a chance to file grievances

got to listen to my dad complain a little recently about how his former coworkers went to a job fair to recruit and didn’t push people into the union training as aggressively as he’d like, and that felt nice

mh, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 03:19 (two years ago) link

xp is there another political party anywhere on Earth whose leaders say they "need" a strong opposition party. It sounds as deranged as the Joker saying he and Batman need each other. Of course what she feels she needs it for is to form a coalition to keep her own party's base in check.

Most people currently alive have never heard of Republicans formerly caring about the issues she cites, unless she's talking about Nixon's era when they were slightly more indifferent to them.

Chris L, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 07:41 (two years ago) link

it’s a pretty common trope in british politics actually, though usually deployed smugly after some spectacular bout of self-immolation by the opposition

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 09:55 (two years ago) link

The main one I can think of is Conservatives/Republicans as stewards of the land/conservationists whereas now they’re all climate change cynics/deniers.

the thin blue lying (suzy), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 09:59 (two years ago) link

Good morning!

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 10:06 (two years ago) link

Pelosi fucking sucks but I feel like she says that stuff to troll Republicans sometimes

frogbs, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 11:53 (two years ago) link

Nah. Paul Campos otm:

I think what Pelosi was trying to convey was something like "we need a neoliberal party to check the excesses of a genuine social democratic party." (The excesses being taxing Nancy Pelosi et. al. at "unreasonable" rates).

The problem is that we already have the former party. She's the legislative head of it in fact. What we don't have in any form anywhere is the latter. Instead we have a theocratic authoritarian ethno-nationalist party that considers the neoliberals to be the equivalent of Stalin and Mao.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 12:27 (two years ago) link

...or Che Quevara!

Desantis is mad today about college students wearing Che Guevara (which he can’t pronounce) tee shirts. Meanwhile, FL has an affordable housing problem facing crisis levels that he doesn’t seem to care about. pic.twitter.com/snic7lBFVD

— Ron Filipkowski 🇺🇦 (@RonFilipkowski) May 9, 2022

Such is the state of the modern day conservative that I can come away from an obit like this thinking, she seemed fun...

NEW YORK (AP) — Midge Decter, a leading neoconservative writer and commentator who in blunt and tenacious style helped lead the right’s attack in the culture wars as she opposed the rise of feminism, affirmative action and the gay rights movement, has died at age 94.

Decter, the wife of retired Commentary editor and fellow neoconservative Norman Podhoretz, died Monday at her home in Manhattan. Daughter Naomi Decter said her health had been failing, but did not cite a specific cause of death.

Like her husband, Midge Decter was a onetime Democrat repelled in the ’60s and after by what she called “heedless and mindless leftist politics and intellectual and artistic nihilism.” Confrontation energized her: She was a popular speaker, a prolific writer and, as she described it, “the requisite bad guy on discussion panels” about the cultural issues of the moment. Her books included “Liberal Parents, Radical Children,” “The New Chastity” and the memoir “An Old Wife’s Tale.”

In 2003, she received a National Humanities Medal, cited as one who “has never shied from controversy.”

Calling herself an “ardent ideologue,” she faulted affirmative action for causing “massive seizures of self-doubt” among Black people. She attacked gays as reckless and irresponsible, and alleged that they had removed themselves from “the tides of ordinary mortal existence.”

Feminism was her special target. “The Libbers,” as she called them, “had created a generation of self-centered and unsatisfied women ‘hopping from marriage to marriage,’ resenting their children for limiting their personal freedom and pressuring themselves to have careers they might not have wanted.

The real agenda of feminism was to leave a woman “as unformed, as able to act without genuine consequence, as the little girl she imagines she once was and longs to continue to be,” Decter wrote.

Her opinions were not left unanswered.

The poet and activist Adrienne Rich once wrote that Decter suffered from “a strange lack of information about the unfilled needs, let alone the enormous destructiveness, of the social order which she so admires.” Responding to a 1980 article by Decter about gay people, Gore Vidal remarked that “she has managed not only to come up with every known prejudice and superstition about same-sexers but also to make up some brand-new ones.”

Decter, Vidal added, “writes with the authority and easy confidence of someone who knows that she is very well known indeed to those few who know her.”

In her early years, Decter did not uphold tradition; she challenged it. Born Midge Rosenthal in St. Paul, Minnesota, in 1927, she was the youngest of three girls and, apparently, the loudest. “Annoyingly talkative” was her family’s consensus, she recalled, underlined by “a certain note of turbulence.”

As a teenager, she acted out, 1940s style — cutting school on occasion to smoke, swear, drink “gallons” of Pepsi and talk about boys and sex. She dreamed a liberal dream. Visits to relatives in Brooklyn left her longing for the “bustle and the smells and the variety” of a big city. She dropped out of the University of Minnesota and transferred to New York’s Jewish Theological Seminary.

In 1948, she married Jewish activist Moshe Decter and for a time lived in leftist paradise, Greenwich Village. Her decision to divorce her first husband had a similar ring to the words of an imagined suburban housewife (“Is this all there is?”) in a book Decter would very much dislike, Betty Friedan’s “The Feminine Mystique.”

“Divorce begins in that moment when one looks into the mirror and says, ‘Is THIS all there is going to be forever?’” Decter wrote in her memoir, published in 2001.

She doubted the modern wish to “have it all,” but Decter managed a full life of family, work and material comfort. She was married more than 50 years to Podhoretz and had four children, two with each husband. (All four worked in journalism and son John Podhoretz eventually became editor of Commentary). She wrote for several publications, from The Weekly Standard to The New Republic. She was an editor at Basic Books and executive editor at Harper’s magazine, where she helped work on what became Norman Mailer’s award-winning book “The Armies of the Night.” She founded the anti-Communist “Committee for the Free World” and was a member of the conservative watchdog Accuracy in Media.

Her turn to the right, like her husband’s, was personal and political. She and Podhoretz were longtime Manhattan residents who had socialized with Mailer, Lillian Hellman and others from whom they became bitterly estranged. In her memoir, Decter accused her leftist opponents of not simply disagreeing with their country, but wishing for its downfall — an attitude she feared would spread to her own family.

“Living as I had been, and where I had been, I had been subjecting my own children to danger: the danger they would be worn down and jaded before they ever had the chance, or the spiritual wherewithal, to take on the chills and spills of real adulthood.” she wrote.

“Put those feelings and ideas all together, and they amounted to what would one day come to be called neoconservatism.”

Max Hamburgers (Eric H.), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 13:51 (two years ago) link

I only learned about her existence reading about her in Vidal essays.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 14:18 (two years ago) link

I imagine she’s in straight Christian heaven now, appointed as a celestial servant of rush Limbaugh’s golden mansion

You reap what you sow bitch

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 10 May 2022 15:13 (two years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.