"we'll change the things that need changing and that's all we'll change": the paSUKification of post-brexit politics 2021

yes the review talks abt that -- but to me that's evidence of situational adjustment to underlying outlook (he's a cop) more than it's evidence of a cold-eyed long-distance step-by-step project, for himself or for the party (to be clear this is the only aspect i'm hmmming at; i think his victory to date is more a product of persistent stubborn lack of imagination as it jigsaws into the endemic lack of imagination of the political landscape, and of constrained vision of potential transformation as it jigsaws ditto ditto; more a product of this anyway than of any useable kind of political deftness, be it never so narrowly focused so far)

tl;dr: oliver e is a wee bit conspiratorial (or maybe seymour is in his retelling)

i guess i mean conspiracy-minded not conspiratorial (i just don't think these guys -- starmer's kitchen cabinet -- are all smart; and i also think the lay of the land was incredibly fkn hard in all directions for the other side, and corbyn made mistakes) (this is a reason i think the review is incisive, sets out some of the mistakes)

all smart = all that smart

(sorry for all the adjustments i'm quite sleepy)

The statement that KS does what he does because he lacks imagination or is conservative, now made by two posters, understates how far what he does is malicious and extreme, and is driven by contempt and an extraordinary desire to damage others.

putting that shitheel in his shadow cabinet has proved to be a mistake, but then again he didn't have a lot of options at the time. I don't believe it was a cunning plan, he took his opportunities and was helped by events and the guileless membership more than any clear strategy to finish off Corbynism while it was winded + and on the deck.

sorry for the clunky boxing metaphor. That's why I'm not a valued poster and if somebody accidentally fp's me on their smartphone I get instant ban!

i fped you bcz i thought it was a sailing metaphor

a lot of Eagleton's material has been covered before. like for example I can remember Jude posting about him removing specialist barristers from rape trials and it's detrimental effects during the leadership election iirc

there are also a lot of appointed positions (some appointed by the leader's office, but others by various bits of the party bureaucracy) on the NEC which tend to be dominated by the right, so overwhelming majority in the positions that members vote for was the only way the left was likely to ever get a majority on the NEC as a whole, even when they had all 9 member appointed positions it was pretty slim, I think?

yeah this is the other key thing. if those were the only 9 seats the move to STV wouldn't matter, but because they're just a smaller part of the whole NEC it's very effectively diluting the left's influence

My only belief favourable to Labour at this point is that they would hurt fewer people than the Tories, I have no faith they would help anyone.

I think the harm reduction argument for voting with a nose peg for a conservative authoritarian Labour is totally overstated at this point. I can't see any rhetorical ground between them and Tories, policy wise only a one off windfall tax that is like the equivalent of putting an elastoplast on a bullet wound.

Labour are more hostile to JC and socialists than the Con party are.

The Tories don't have to bother Starmer is doing all the spadework for them.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRbVg-_XIAIqz6-?format=jpg&name=360x360

attacking the LibDems for seemingly floating their best policy ideas since Charlie opposed the invasion of Iraq. Of course local elections are all about bin collections, thermonuclear weapons and drugs.

Only 24% of Labour voters (and 35% of the general public) want soft drugs to remain illegal but it’s obviously not about appealing to voters on anything other than Under New Management.

Intrigued to know how canvassing in Barnet with a bunch of Israeli MPs is going.

The statement that KS does what he does because he lacks imagination or is conservative, now made by two posters, understates how far what he does is malicious and extreme, and is driven by contempt and an extraordinary desire to damage others.

Malicious, extreme and driven by contempt and an extraordinary desire to damage others seems a pretty accurate summing up of UK conservatism to me.

OK: but that comes down to a difference between small and large C.

Leave aside the Con party. The claim is made that KS is unimaginative, cautious and conservative - these understood as regular adjectives.

I don't think he is. Or I think he is also the things I said, which you have just quoted.

To put it more simply:

Do KS's actions suggest that he's moderate and middle of the road?

No, they show that he's extreme and dangerous.

I think he could be potentially more dangerous than a real Tory PM, because of his need to prove he's not a wet.

well I don't think mark s is suggesting in any way that Starmer's project isn't evil to the core; whether he engineered it via machiavellian long term strategy or whether he caught a bunch of lucky breaks and managed to capitalize tactically on these doesn't make any difference to its ethical content I don't think

all i'm actually objecting to is a sense -- possibly not even entirely intended -- in seymour's review that the project as it is very clearly emerging now was as clear to starmer and his in-gang supporters (but only them) five yrs ago, let alone 15 yrs ago

and to be clear myself i think the review is incisive and useful and the eagleton book -- against my natural anti-eagleton prejudices -- also sounds good and useful

What I still feel quite bitter about is the membership who voted for him. Lots of switched on people were digging the dirt on him at the time, and based on his history there was no chance he was ever going to deliver some soft-left compromise Corbynism without Corbyn. And still now you get feigned outrage from easy dupes who found out to their horror that right-wing politicians will lie to get votes. Like ffs this was an important vote that will have very significant consequences for the next decade and beyond and they got duped by a very unimaginative and uncharismatic person who admitted it was all an act the day he got elected.

I agree with both Mark S and Calzino. Points very well made.

I think perversely you've got more chance of the tories adopting watered down versions of Corbyn 2019 policies than you would with a Labour govt, and this is a deeply fucked up thing.

all I've heard from Labour on Universal Credit is a proposal to change the name "to remove the stigma that has become attached to it" and in all their messaging non-working/disabled people just don't exist. I think they could be very dangerous, the Labour Right like making "difficult decisions" because it makes them look tough.

It would be interesting to do a deep dive on the strands of Labour's right - I feel like the people ignored are for different reasons, your Blue Labour types with an actual prejudice against those that don't fit their white semi-skilled ur-prole fantasies whereas the managerial Blairites just want their bureaucracy tidy and cheap and the status of their victims is irrelevant as long as they become grateful patronised basket cases

It's probably just an accident of what I haven't noticed but my mental health has benefited from not seeing the "Labour needs to win at any cost to save the poor" Victorian philanthropy line trotted out online for a couple of months

you best avoid [that actor from Threads] account then, because he trots that shit out every day. It's like self care for delusional progressives, this idea that Labour still have some paternalistic duty they will honour towards the sick and the poor - despite policy wise offering nothing to them and actually looking more like a danger to them.

B-b-b-but the SureStarts!

Obviously the 320 quid a month plus most of your rent, maybe, if you're lucky, is more than ample for a single person to live on in 2022, just needs a more upbeat name

the best dramatic depiction I've seen of the conflicts and dialogues between the PLP factions was Bill Brand. Incredible series. Some of the Blue Labour caricatures in it are so well written it could have been made yesterday.

Thought I might've seen some of it but a quick look at wiki says no I haven't. I know it's rep, would like to watch some day

entire series is on youtube

I guessed it might be, but yknow, so much culture, so little time

Think I had it mixed up with the Nigel Barton plays in my head, or possibly a one off thing Alan Clarke did that I can't remember the title of

@zinovievletter is the best poster for discovering stuff like this

although their should be trigger warnings for the multiple scenes with Jack Shepherd wearing a vest and purple y-fronts!

another review of the eagleton book (harsher on what's missing from it): https://medium.com/@nickbano/take-a-look-at-the-law-man-beating-up-the-wrong-guy-421b443edc18

quite a funny review considering it was written by a barrister.

although he's a homelessness, tenants rights, destitute migrants specialist - so probably a decent one.

As leader, Starmer’s political instincts are so bad, and his strategy of supporting the government but challenging its processes have been so ineffective, that he’s been very useful at challenging the sense of deference which is often, wrongly, given to the legal profession

lol

yeah it's more precise on what starmer is very bad at given what he's good at also lol

GMB WIN 🚨: Manchester bin strike called off after workers win up to 22% pay rise 👏

— GMB Union (@GMB_union) April 29, 2022

not used to good news these days

The (O.) Eagleton project goes on.

https://jacobinmag.com/2022/04/uk-labour-party-keir-starmer-project-left-corbyn-purge

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1039888833406533632/Eqq3W1Gp_400x400.jpg

it's an old student photo I think but Eagleton looks like a generic "bands" member here. Perhaps Mark's misgivings about him are quite justifiable!

LOL @ the headline.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-tory-neil-parish-quits-26839237

Neil Parish has told the BBC he is resigning as an MP after admitting he watched pornography twice in the House of Commons.

Mr Parish - the MP for Tiverton and Honiton in Devon - said it had been a "moment of madness" and "I was not proud of what I was doing".

He said the first time was accidental after looking at tractors, but the second time was deliberate.

In an exclusive interview with BBC South West, he said: "The situation was that - funnily enough it was tractors I was looking at. I did get into another website that had a very similar name and I watched it for a bit which I shouldn't have done. But my crime - biggest crime - is that on another occasion I went in a second time."

this reads like it's from one of those spoof articles in Viz but is apparently genuine? I wonder what the website with a similar name can have been?