ok what the fuck is happening in ukraine

From Mary Ilyushina's (syndicated) WaPo account of of one woman's family escaping forced relocation:

The convoy was eventually taken to Taganrog, a Russian port city on the Sea of Azov. Only there were the people from Mariupol told that their final destination would be Vladimir, a town more than 600 miles to the east

But this woman said that she convinced the Russians that "she had a friend (near Taganrog) who was willing to house her family." After being allowed to leave the convoy they got on a train to Moscow , presently moved on from there to St. Petersberg and uhhh eventually "crossed over to the EU on foot." Not much detail about that, at all, but apparently they left Mariupol with money, unlike most of their fellow citizens. Russians seemed very strict sometimes, hazy others.

Several stories with context on a lesser known decree regarding trade unions from earlier in March:

https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/ukraine-democratic-socialists-challenge-zelenskys-attack-workers-political-parties

Days earlier, parliament passed a bill to deregulate labour rights...which was signed into law by Zelensky on March 23.

The law allows: employers to cancel collective labour agreements and increase the working week from 40 to 60 hours; the dismissal of workers on sick leave or vacation, as well as the sacking of trade union members without the consent of the trade union committee; women to be assigned to physically strenuous and underground labour, currently prohibited by Ukraine’s labour laws; and the suspension of an employment contract “in connection with the military aggression against Ukraine”, with responsibility for the payment of workers’ wages put on “the State committing military aggression” (Russia), not the employer.

Social Movement leader Vitaliy Dudin wrote: “Restrictions imposed to protect the public interest must be proportionate to the achievement of the objective pursued. The (law) is designed to strengthen defence capabilities, but establishes the possibility of exploitation of workers at enterprises of any industry throughout Ukraine. In other words, the emergency rules provided by it can be used not to carry out work in the interests of defence, but to increase the profits of the owners.”

An interview with an anonymous journalist and trade unionist:

https://therealnews.com/economic-devastation-and-political-repression-a-trade-unionists-view-from-inside-ukraine

“A”: You need to understand that the attack on trade unions has been going on for 30 years, since the collapse of the USSR. During the Soviet era, trade unions were subject to control by the Communist Party and could not be compared to the free trade unions we know in the US or Europe. After the collapse of the USSR, we in Ukraine hoped that we could build new trade unions that would really protect the rights of workers. However, since Ukraine achieved independence, instead of reforming them, successive governments have tried to establish their control over the trade unions. Moreover, after the mass privatization of enterprises, new factory owners and industrialists began to establish control over trade unions...

But then, in 2019-2020, when people began to spontaneously organize protests against the increase in utility tariffs and rising prices, and when trade unions began to join these movements, the government immediately announced that this was subversive activity serving the interests of Russia...Almost all trade unions opposed these legislative restrictions on labor rights, and the government failed to implement them.

And now, using the implementation of martial law, and facing a situation where many enterprises have been destroyed by the war and millions of people have been forced to evacuate to safe regions or even other countries, the Ukrainian parliament has adopted the most severe restrictions on labor rights and trade unions...The severity of the situation also comes down to the fact that the unions cannot go on strike now, nor can they openly oppose these draconian measures.

Later in the interview, he suggests future policies that could prevent extreme nationalists and/or fascists from taking power in Ukraine:

In order to stop this war, and in order to avoid its repetition in the future—not only in Ukraine, but anywhere in Europe—it is necessary to demand from governments, including the US government, that they reconsider the political and economic integration of the former Soviet republics into modern political and economic associations. All these years, since gaining independence, Ukraine has been left on the margins of global integration. This contributed to the flourishing of corruption, selective justice, and the spread of poverty and misery in Ukraine. The same thing happened in Russia, where these processes have been intensified by Putin’s authoritarianism.

The governments of the leading democracies turned a blind eye to this for decades, only pretending to show concern for these very real problems. In fact, Western corporations at this time were making billions of dollars of investments in Ukraine and Russia, cashing in on cheap labor, cheap raw materials, and the ability to easily resolve any issues with our governments through corrupt, backroom deals. For the sake of maintaining these profits, controlling the labor movement, and tamping down labor protests, they often supported very reactionary political forces in our countries and literally nurtured authoritarian rulers.

Another story on the law:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ukraine-suspends-labour-law-war-russia/

Western corporations at this time were making billions of dollars of investments in Ukraine and Russia, cashing in on cheap labor, cheap raw materials, and the ability to easily resolve any issues with our governments through corrupt, backroom deals. For the sake of maintaining these profits, controlling the labor movement, and tamping down labor protests, they often supported very reactionary political forces in our countries and literally nurtured authoritarian rulers.

the same old story of neo-colonialism in a nutshell

They are bringing the dance on home now, why nurture authoritarianism in other countries when you can do so in good ole' USA for fun and profit.

Not seeing any news site (like with reporters) w news of what greenleft claims to be Law of Ukraine “On the Organisation of Labour Relations in Martial Law” (7160)

From the legislature (Verkhovna Rada), passed on March 15th:

https://www.rada.gov.ua/en/news/News/220575.html

Defined special labor regulations during the martial law (Reg. No. 7160)

Signed by Zelensky March 23rd:

https://itd.rada.gov.ua/billInfo/Bills/Card/39225

23.03.2022 Повернуто з підписом від Президента (Returned with the signature of the President)

https://ukranews.com/en/news/843640-zelenskyy-signs-law-on-labor-relations-during-martial-law

https://interfax.com.ua/news/general/813875.html

So much for basic Google. How did you find all that?

I searched google news at first but that didn't bring me (very many) results, then I searched by the number of the bill indicated in some of the results, and ended up at the Verkhovna Rada site, where I was able to confirm the passing and eventually the signing as well.

I had tried the number of the bill---anyway, giving workers even less incentive to stick around.

Grim news the last couple of days, obviously. Some thoughts from OBrien

Reflections on the state of the war, attrition, atrocity and why Russia is heading for an even greater disaster than expected (and I wrote from the start I didnt see how they could win this war)--all compounded by their own choices which are speeding up their army's dissolution.

— Phillips P. OBrien (@PhillipsPOBrien) April 3, 2022

i'm sorry, but i can't trust anyone whose first name is Phillips, and then to add P. OBrien, on top of that, i just can't do it

Understandable biases.

i appreciate it, but i'm going to wait until stone phillips reports. at least he has his name on the right way

god. the news from Bucha, after the russian army withdrew.

jesus. there is video and it is chilling. at least 270 civilians dead, many is mass graves, at least some tortured, it appears.

Yeah, the stills and vids make it clear: bodies on the sidewalk with hands tied behind their backs, reports of children's mutilated bodies---and in paywalled WSJ field reports, refugees from Russian-held areas report "madness," no civil administration or even slick Final Solution, just random-seeming bursts of violence. Is Putin in charge? Does he want to be, of this?
Listening to On The Media interview, recorded earlier, of Gideon Rose, author of How Wars End, re Southeast Asian Wars of 50-70s, and many since explain that Putin's gotta be given a relatively smooth exit ramp, facesaving and all that: talk of regime change, and, since interview, genocide, not helpful---but Putin and/or his absence of control, if that's what it is, makes/make the conception of a sane endgame (in the acceptable bullshit ceremonial sense) harder everyday.

Fuck face saving. Putin needs to be in the sock in The Hague alongside GW Bush and Cheney

They were innocent people - noncombatants. They died because they were Ukrainians. My neighbors, perhaps those I stood behind in the grocery store, those who ran next to me in treadmills at the gym. People I passed while walking my dog, or picking out a Christmas tree.

— Zepla 🌙🐇🌱🇺🇦 (@Xepla) April 3, 2022

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

https://ara.tv/ypw7h Link to: "At least 20 bodies seen in one street in town near Kyiv" - Al Arabiya News (in English)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bodies-of-mutilated-children-among-horrors-the-russians-left-behind-5ddnkkwp2

(same article, no paywall): https://archive.ph/DWVsn

https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/liberated-from-the-russians-a-visit-to-trostyanets-after-the-end-of-the-occupation-a-c088be53-5f6c-4059-8d46-68803276e473

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/02/world/ukraine-russia-war#grim-signs-of-a-russian-retreat-are-visible-on-the-outskirts-of-a-village-west-of-kyiv

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

"An interesting interview by Greg Yudin which is very congruent with my hypothesis that the war would be radically transforming Russian politics from Caesarism/Bonapartism towards a more mobilizationist, ideological, hegemonic regime. He also alludes that this transformation could be one of the underestimated domestic reasons for the war. The use of concepts like fascism and totalitarianism is, of course, debatable. However, debating this is extremely difficult now after the pictures from Kiev suburbs left by the Russian forces:" - Volodymyr Ishchenko:

https://www.akweb.de/politik/putin-war-in-ukraine-a-fascist-regime-looms-in-russia/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNS1MS2uNsM

Russia has called for a security council meeting to talk about these - what they call - hoaxes and provocations by Ukraine, because they deny shooting civilians and since Zelenskii has a TV background everything we see is fake and all those victims are hired actors, is the explanation they're going with. hmm.

hmm, well that sounds like alex jones to me

i saw some fucked up shit in those videos

⚡ Official Statement by @mod_russia ⚡

All the photos and videos published by the Kiev regime in Bucha are just another provocation.

Facts 👉 https://t.co/L91uGBs4r5

❗ This confirms conclusively this is another #hoax by the Kiev regime for the Western media. pic.twitter.com/VO3umSNwkE

— MFA Russia 🇷🇺 (@mfa_russia) April 3, 2022

NO TYPICAL CADAVER STAINS

not going to trust corpse science from someone who got an MFA

lol

Or a Russian Mod

So stupid.

German philosopher Adorno once said that writing poetry after Auschwitz is barbaric. I add today that naively admiring Russian "culture" after Mariupol and Bucha, after Donbas and Syria, after Gulags and Stalinism, is barbaric too

— Volodymyr Yermolenko (@yermolenko_v) April 3, 2022

I've got some news about Ancient cultures too

forget it, xyzzzz; it's twittertown

It's not just twitter, concerts of pieces by Russian composers have been cancelled. Film premieres of Russian films have been stopped at the last min.

Nowhere near the priority ofc, but it's irritating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B48CDvoJ8Tw

He doesn't deserve to be wide anymore.

So stupid. Nowhere near the priority ofc, but it's irritating.

Germany now says it needs time to readjust its economy to energy sanctions. Funny. I was in the Portuguese government 10 years ago. What happened to “faster is less painful”?

— Bruno Maçães (@MacaesBruno) April 4, 2022

What happened between Germany and Portugal in 2012? When I google it, I only get results about soccer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis

Worth pointing out that Maçães was indeed part of the Portuguese government that pledged to "go even further than the troika" in establishing austerity measures, so his point isn't so much "why did you have us suffer then?" and more "why aren't you letting your people suffer more now?".

1/14 How an ordinary Russian TV viewer (one of whom I currently am) sees it.

I learned about the monstrous events in Bucha yesterday morning from the news that Russia was convening the UN Security Council in connection with the massacre by Ukrainian Nazis in Bucha.

— Alexey Navalny (@navalny) April 5, 2022

Pick:

4/14 “Listen how consonant the English word "butcher" and the name of the city "Bucha" are. This is how the Western audience was subconsciously prepared for this provocation."

— Alexey Navalny (@navalny) April 5, 2022

7/14 The endlessly squealing anchors and their "experts" are revving up their fury and have long since surpassed the military in their aggressiveness.

— Alexey Navalny (@navalny) April 5, 2022

8/14 They demand a war to the bitter end, storming Kyiv, bombing Lviv. Even the prospect of a nuclear war does not scare them. They mop up the floor with their fellow Putinists on live television if they as much as hint at the fact that peace talks are a good thing.

— Alexey Navalny (@navalny) April 5, 2022

That last one reminds me of my state's current Republican primary campaigns, re who's the Trumpiest.
Maybe I should have put all that on one of the Russia threads, but agree with WaPo editorial (not paywalled) that Buchla is a turning point---although I was almost there re my prev post
Yeah, the stills and vids make it clear: bodies on the sidewalk with hands tied behind their backs, reports of children's mutilated bodies---and in paywalled WSJ field reports, refugees from Russian-held areas report "madness," no civil administration or even slick Final Solution, just random-seeming bursts of violence. Is Putin in charge? Does he want to be, of this?
Listening to On The Media interview, recorded earlier, of Gideon Rose, author of How Wars End, re Southeast Asian Wars of 50-70s, and many since explain that Putin's gotta be given a relatively smooth exit ramp, facesaving and all that: talk of regime change, and, since interview, genocide, not helpful---but Putin and/or his absence of control, if that's what it is, makes/make the conception of a sane endgame (in the acceptable bullshit ceremonial sense) harder everyday.

― dow, Sunday, April 3, 2022
duhhh, but before that I was inclined toward the received notion that yes Putin needs offramp, and announced regrouping to the East, aimed at closing date in early May, just in time for the Parade, is what he really really wants/will deign to settle for, that and some current holdings in the South, like throughway formerly known as Mariupol---and even Zalenskyy seemed to acknowledge that these could be acceptable, with held areas subject to negotiation for x years.
But now, as the particulars of Buchla sink in tenaciously, with the aforementioned reports of "madness" vs. administration in held areas---seems like the push-back needs to get more intensive, to degrees of pre-emption: something more vs. troop transport, as well as the ongoing vs. tanks, artillery, missiles: risky, but since he, they, whoever is and/or isn't in charge, keep escalating anyway...(or not even that: we don't yet know, in re-taken areas, how much of this has been going on for how long, how typically)
And I guess that I just don't know---but jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

Not thinking of direct NATO involvement re boots on the ground in Ukraine, or handing off planes if that's too much, but more better weapons---

This guy was talking about nuking a week ago:

One of the main #Russian propaganda channels threatens a nuclear attack on #Warsaw and war on the #Baltic states pic.twitter.com/t6DTROxNqD

— NEXTA (@nexta_tv) March 23, 2022

This next guy apparently looked at the Wikipedia entry for Operation Pike and decided the only thing wrong with it was that it was never carried out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pike

UPDATE: Delyagin, who earlier called for the bombing of Azerbaijan, steps back and apologises.

"I certainly apologize to everyone who was frightened or offended or offended, both in Russia and in Azerbaijan, and in Armenia, and in other countries, in my words," Delyagin said. https://t.co/Pd5xAmSFNk

— Ragıp Soylu (@ragipsoylu) March 29, 2022

He apologized later though. Thank you, Delyagin, very cool!

And those who keep it positive---all about Denazification, yay---get to look that much more reassuringly reasonable by comparison.

And Delyagin is only human, after all. Gettin' upset, as who does not?

lonely guy just thinkin baout things

And those who keep it positive---all about Denazification, yay---get to look that much more reassuringly reasonable by comparison.

Oh don't worry, they're getting in on the fun too:

1/4 This is Timofei (Tima) Sergeitsev, Mr.Genocide, 🇷🇺 author of recent manifesto of #GenocideOfUkrainians in @ria_novosti titled “What to do with Ukraine”.
The collective punishment is kinda Tima’s theme. Tima wants to rid Ukraine of Ukrainians. Even of the name “Ukraine”. pic.twitter.com/CrFdTTGV5H

— olexander scherba🇺🇦 (@olex_scherba) April 5, 2022

https://uacrisis.org/en/justification-of-genocide-russia-has-openly-declared-its-desire-to-exterminate-ukrainians-as-a-nation

Back in April last year, we wrote about the inevitability of the denazification of Ukraine. We don’t need Nazi, Bandera Ukraine, the enemy of Russia, and the West’s tool for the destruction of Russia. Today, the issue of denazification has moved into a practical plane.

The terms of denazification can in no way be less than one generation, which must be born, grow up and reach maturity under the conditions of denazification. The Nazification of Ukraine continued for more than 30 years, beginning at least in 1989 when Ukrainian nationalism received legal and legitimate forms of political expression and led the movement for “independence” towards Nazism.

It's hilarious to me how he could easily have picked a time like 2014 or even 2004 and there'd be many reasonable people in the West nodding their heads in solemn understanding about Ukrainian Nazis...but he picks the "let's do it and be legends" variant and goes back straight to 1989 because we Russians just CANNOT FUCKING ABIDE an independent Ukraine, at any time, and fuck what you Europeans and Americans think. Remarkable.

The collective West itself is the designer, source, and sponsor of Ukrainian Nazism, while the Western Bandera cadres and their “historical memory” are only one of the tools for the Nazification of Ukraine. Ukronazism carries not less, but a greater threat to the world and Russia than German Nazism of the Hitlerite version.

Ukraine, as history has shown, is impossible as a nation-state, and attempts to “build” one naturally lead to Nazism. Ukrainism is an artificial anti-Russian construction that does not have its own civilizational content, a subordinate element of an alien and alien civilization.

*liquidation of armed Nazi formations (which means any armed formations of Ukraine, including the Armed Forces of Ukraine), as well as the military, informational, educational infrastructure that ensures their activity;

*installation of the Russian information space;

*the withdrawal of educational materials and the prohibition of educational programs at all levels containing Nazi ideological guidelines;

*mass investigative actions to establish personal responsibility for war crimes, crimes against humanity, the spread of Nazi ideology, and support for the Nazi regime

*lustration, publication of the names of accomplices of the Nazi regime, involving them in forced labor to restore the destroyed infrastructure as punishment for Nazi activities (from among those who will not be subject to the death penalty or imprisonment)

It's wild out here in this Русский мир!

he could easily have picked a time like 2014 or even 2004 and there'd be many reasonable people in the West nodding their heads in solemn understanding about Ukrainian Nazis
Really?? Don't remember it being the received wisdom to that extent, but maybe I just didn't get the memo. What was, uh, the deal--?

I remember sketchy pols and *some* right-wing militias, but mainly that NATO started providing more arms and training because of Russian incursions, grabbing Crimea, setting up little "states" in the East recognized by almost nobody, and continuing the war in the Dombas etc. to this day---not sitting back all peaceful 'til NATO's Nazi Frankenstein suddenly rose up over thar in the wheat, as some in Europe and the US still believe.

2014 is when groups like Right Sector other Nazis/fascists in Ukraine were a part of the happenings on Maidan square, and due to their organized nature had an outsized role in fighting back against the government forces. When I hear people talking about "Ukrainian Nazis" in good faith, this is what I assume they're referring to (or those kinds of groups' activities in Ukrainian society/politics after 2014). And of course, the not-good-faith Russian narrative was pretty much all Nazis, all the time, from 2014 on.

2004 is trickier, but you could do some creative ret-conning and also dig up some vile extremist nationalist rhetoric and actions, tying them (fairly or not) to the demonstrations and Orange Revolution. For instance, a couple years before 2004 I'd read claims of Ukrainians forcing people in parts of Crimea to stop speaking Russian, and other stories with similar themes about a growing nationalist backlash against all things Russian. That seemed more like a natural consequence of the very recent and traumatic Soviet and Russian imperial past, but you could spin it as a country descending into exclusionary fascist barbarism if you were so inclined.

Remember too that from the Russian nationalist perspective, like our friend Tima with the article from above, there is little to no difference between the terms "Nazi" and "anti-Russian."

Monster thread from a guy known for them but it seems to be a useful summary/analysis

Why Russia is losing this war?

First I'll discuss why Russia *is* losing. Then I'll give my version of how it could happen. The key to understanding lies in the Soviet/Russian military doctrine. It gives context for current events and helps to predict further Russian actions🧵 pic.twitter.com/uQqYVLENwe

— Kamil Galeev (@kamilkazani) April 6, 2022

Worth pointing out that Maçães was indeed part of the Portuguese government that pledged to "go even further than the troika" in establishing austerity measures, so his point isn't so much "why did you have us suffer then?" and more "why aren't you letting your people suffer more now?".

― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 5 April 2022 bookmarkflaglink

Fair enough though these positions are 'one rule for Berlin, another for Lisbon'.