Table, I've said this upthread:
After 2014, the story I kept hearing was that right wing movements got a boost because they were one of the few groups who were organized and ready to go when the Maidan protests turned violent.After this war, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers with differing political views, and millions of non-combatatans will all have had the unifying experience of fighting or living through the war. No right-winger or fascist will be able to honestly say, though they will try, that somehow they "saved" the nation on their own, or that their efforts mattered more.Left, right, center, the only people who will be marginalized are not leftists, but pro-Russia parties or individuals.
After this war, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers with differing political views, and millions of non-combatatans will all have had the unifying experience of fighting or living through the war. No right-winger or fascist will be able to honestly say, though they will try, that somehow they "saved" the nation on their own, or that their efforts mattered more.
Left, right, center, the only people who will be marginalized are not leftists, but pro-Russia parties or individuals.
To the degree that Ukrainians as a whole - not just Azov or other right-wingers - have become more ethno-nationalist since this war started, I think one person above all is responsible, and they are not in the US, or NATO.
If you're talking about them arming Ukrainians before the war, my point still stands. We'd just have to trace the causes back to 2014 instead of back to February 26, 2022.
Yeah, the outcome of this war is NOT going to be great for any parties in Ukraine that are not nationalist, or don't make overtures to nationalism. Once again, whose fault is that?
― The Quantum Superposition Platform - For Life (MoominTrollin), Wednesday, 30 March 2022 11:53 (four years ago)
Vlads
― Alfred Ndwego of Kenya (Tom D.), Wednesday, 30 March 2022 12:19 (four years ago)
"You don't have to be one in this case."
Is that right? I see..
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 30 March 2022 12:21 (four years ago)
Tom didn't Vlads is good according to a couple of thousand 'tankie' twitter accounts? This is what we should focus on.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 30 March 2022 12:22 (four years ago)
i also don't know where ishchenko got those numbers from in the year-old fb post, but it's not a particularly salient point - if we replace the 30-40% with a more accurate 20%, it doesn't hurt the broader point he's making there - the suppression & (since then) suspension of opposition is bad on civil liberties grounds, anti-democratic, and only furthers existing polarisation.
Ishchenko claims the Opposition Platform For Life "was not that hard oppositionist and way less 'pro-Russian' as it is usually presented."
if they were as pro-russian as often presented they would have all backed the invasion & eagerly co-operated. it's not that there aren't obvious ties and attempts to use them as influence but it's still a more nuanced story than them merely being putin's minions, even if it's just self-interest & being savvy enough to realise they'd have no longer have any local support base. think it's possible to read ishchenko as being overly defensive about the pro-russia label, seemingly out of frustration with the pro-west/pro-russia polarisation and in reaction to anyone not sufficiently nationalist being tarred with it (even zelensky in the past). but there's a big difference between that and him being any sort of pro-kremlin tankie as claimed by the nihilist article. that also doesn't change his larger points against political repression, or any of his other analysis recently linked. if you don't even really agree with the article calling him a pro-kremlin tankie then why even bother linking it, it adds nothing except this stupid derail.
Maybe he doesn't like neo-liberalism, though I'm not sure how OpPlat would be any different from Zelensky's guys in this respect. Also, given the USSR's legacy in Ukraine, a lot of these "leftist" parties are more conservative and traditional than they seem, looking back to a glorious/imagined Soviet past rather than the kind of racially, sexually, culturally inclusive future that modern Western communists espouse.
why do you keep arguing against things no one in this thread or even in linked articles has said. ishchenko's argument isn't 'these parties are good and leftist and we should support them'
And as always, we have to remember that the Russian govt. does not have, or tolerate, "pro-Ukrainian" parties, Ukrainian language or viewpoint television stations, or pro-Ukrainian protests, even in the border regions with mixed Russian/Ukrainian populations. This is usually taken for granted but in light of all the hand-wringing about Zelensky kicking these parties to the curb, we should at least acknowledge the glaring disparity.
yes, russia is bad and no one is arguing otherwise. that also obviously is not any sort of argument in favour of political repression elsewhere though
― ufo, Wednesday, 30 March 2022 13:03 (four years ago)
Looks interesting.
Mainstream media coverage of Russia’s invasion has been woeful. Ahistorical, jingoistic, hypocritical and biased. It’s worth listening in to this Twitter space hosted by @_VashtiMedia which put the invasion into context both from a western perspective & crucially an eastern one. https://t.co/j0xcZ1HHsB— There’s No Point (@judeinlondon2) March 30, 2022
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 30 March 2022 13:29 (four years ago)
@ufo
if they were as pro-russian as often presented they would have all backed the invasion & eagerly co-operated.
That's not the case I was making here, but interestingly enough, at least some people high up in the Russian power vertical DEFINITELY thought this, and were even disappointed when this turned out not to be the case.
I found the Nihilist the article useful, as he laid out some of the events on Maidan and the puzzling turn of some parties to anti-USA protests in the middle of said events. He probably does have beef with Ishchenko but in the context of the article, the beef seems mutual rather than an unprovoked attack. Having seem him linked 4-5 times or more ITT, I figured it'd be good to show an opposing view. I'm sorry for the derailment.
I think we're talking past each other when it comes to the political repression part of this, though. I'm seeing it in the broader context of Russian-Ukrainian relations, and the kind of influence that Russian leaders are used to exerting over Ukraine, or even see as their natural right (Ishchenko mentions this in one of his interviews as Russia "having its own soloists in the Ukrainian choir.")
If Ukraine was in the middle of the Pacific ocean instead of on Russia's borders, all of this suppression and funneling arms to a country that's increasingly polarised and nationalist/right wing would look quite different. But at the moment it's right next to Russia, being invaded by it.
The point isn't that Russia is "bad," but that it was very clearly exercising undue influence in Ukrainian politics and had been for a long time: through tv channels, through various parties, and its own 'Ukrainian Nazis' narrative. This resulted in, or helped amplify, nationalist and right-wing sentiments in Ukraine.
This is like the third or fourth time in two hundred years that this has happened, except where they used to blame Poland, or Europe, now they can blame the USA, or NATO. The song remains the same.
― The Quantum Superposition Platform - For Life (MoominTrollin), Wednesday, 30 March 2022 13:29 (four years ago)
Expected reaction. No way latest Ukrainian proposals would have been accepted by Putin. Especially Crimea talks and referendum. Both sides appear to believe they can achieve more militarily. https://t.co/t17nVL9srh— Leonid Ragozin (@leonidragozin) March 30, 2022
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 30 March 2022 13:41 (four years ago)
to what extent is rightward ukrainan drift, if real, a result of nato/eu not arming or supporting ukraine directly enough? i see comments of “we’re arming fascists,” but i’m not seeing a meaningful proposal that mitigates ukraine’s plight while entirely excludes having to support some of the fascists. And absent more robust western intervention, wouldn’t a needful ukranian public shrug and say “we must support the ukrainian fighters we have then” thereby strengthening their right? what does meaningfully supporting non-fash ukraine “mean”?
― The Hon. Christian Sharia (R - MO) (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 30 March 2022 16:49 (four years ago)
I think the pertinent question is less ‘how can we stop arming fascists?’, given the impossible situation the Ukrainian government is in, and more ‘how do we support the Ukrainian government and state against fascism when the dust settles?’.
― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Wednesday, 30 March 2022 17:03 (four years ago)
Although I've been trying to keep my head down and follow what is happening---via field reports, whenever possible--- rather than figure out what should happen, I agree with what you're saying, ShariVari.
― dow, Wednesday, 30 March 2022 22:35 (four years ago)
update on xpost forcible removal of civilians from Mariupol:
Russian forces in Ukraine have forcibly deported the staff and patients of a maternity hospital in Mariupol, sending more than 70 people to Russia, the city council said. It’s at least the second hospital to undergo that fate, with more than 20,000 people now sent to Russia against their will, the officials said.The Russians are confiscating identity documents from people who are taken out of their city, the Mariupol City Council said on its Telegram channel. It says the Ukrainians are being sent to filtration camps and then dispersed around Russia.Under the Geneva Conventions, it is a war crime for an occupying power to deport people to any other country or territory during an international conflict.The city council’s version of events hasn’t been independently verified by NPR or other Western media. On Tuesday, Russia’s defense ministry acknowledged it has taken tens of thousands of people out of Mariupol and other parts of eastern Ukraine -- but it characterized that action as an evacuation of refugees from a dangerous area.It’s a return to tactics last seen during World War II, Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boychenko said. He added that the city and Donetsk Region Gov. Pavlo Kyrylenko are creating a database of deported Ukrainians to ensure they can return....Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk said on Wednesday that evacuation routes have been agreed upon for the day, to allow people to leave Mariupol and to bring humanitarian aid to the city.
The Russians are confiscating identity documents from people who are taken out of their city, the Mariupol City Council said on its Telegram channel. It says the Ukrainians are being sent to filtration camps and then dispersed around Russia.
Under the Geneva Conventions, it is a war crime for an occupying power to deport people to any other country or territory during an international conflict.
The city council’s version of events hasn’t been independently verified by NPR or other Western media. On Tuesday, Russia’s defense ministry acknowledged it has taken tens of thousands of people out of Mariupol and other parts of eastern Ukraine -- but it characterized that action as an evacuation of refugees from a dangerous area.
It’s a return to tactics last seen during World War II, Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boychenko said. He added that the city and Donetsk Region Gov. Pavlo Kyrylenko are creating a database of deported Ukrainians to ensure they can return....Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk said on Wednesday that evacuation routes have been agreed upon for the day, to allow people to leave Mariupol and to bring humanitarian aid to the city.
― dow, Wednesday, 30 March 2022 23:23 (four years ago)
I'd read that four million refugees had left Ukraine, and that half of them were children, but not, for instance:
The U.N. estimates the war also has displaced 6.5 million people within the country.The International Organization for Migration, which tracks not just refugees but all people on the move from their homes, reported earlier this month that more than 12 million people are estimated to be stranded in areas of Ukraine under attack or cannot leave because of security risks, the destruction of bridges and roads and a lack of information about safe destinations and lodging.All told, more than 22 million people are either blocked from moving or have been forced to flee, IOM figures show.
The International Organization for Migration, which tracks not just refugees but all people on the move from their homes, reported earlier this month that more than 12 million people are estimated to be stranded in areas of Ukraine under attack or cannot leave because of security risks, the destruction of bridges and roads and a lack of information about safe destinations and lodging.
All told, more than 22 million people are either blocked from moving or have been forced to flee, IOM figures show.
___
― dow, Thursday, 31 March 2022 02:47 (four years ago)
An article of mine has appeared in @TheAtlantic , it’s to start questioning why the analysis of the Russian military was so mistaken. One thing I think we need to understand is that studying weapons and doctrine is very different than understanding war. https://t.co/WNqsvGa1Z4— Phillips P. OBrien (@PhillipsPOBrien) March 31, 2022
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 March 2022 12:49 (four years ago)
I was wondering what would happen
Putin’s decree of the day: Spring conscription into the Russian army will run from April 1st- July 15th. Russia intends to call 134,500 men aged 18-27 for military service. At the start of the war, Putin denied that any conscripts were involved. What a difference a month makes. https://t.co/1suSp0elzY— Bianna Golodryga (@biannagolodryga) March 31, 2022
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 March 2022 19:58 (four years ago)
(Keep in mind this isn't entirely unexpected; I'd learned some weeks ago that April 1 is essentially the start of the conscription cycle regardless. Still, in context...says something.)
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 March 2022 20:02 (four years ago)
And if you want an argument that this won't even help much
https://www.rand.org/blog/2022/03/russias-problems-with-military-professionalization.html
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 March 2022 20:03 (four years ago)
Springtime for Putin and Russia
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 31 March 2022 20:55 (four years ago)
Not really sure how well these negotiations are going. For one thing, one of Ukraine's major asks is for some kind of security guarantees from NATO countries without being part of NATO. Not sure how this could work. Seems like NATO countries so far have been kind of noncommittal without saying "no" outright, but its hard to imagine how they would agree to something that has the potential to draw them into a war with Russia over Ukraine -- the one thing they've been adamant all along that they do not want. If they're just going to be the toothless kind of guarantees that Ukraine already received when they agreed to give up their Soviet-era nukes, then I'm not sure what's the point.
― o. nate, Friday, 1 April 2022 02:35 (four years ago)
Yeah, I've seen some coverage of that, very much the way you put it.
Meanwhile
Several hundred Russian soldiers were forced to hastily withdraw from the Chernobyl nuclear power plant in Ukraine after suffering “acute radiation sickness” from contaminated soil, according to Ukrainian officials.The troops, who dug trenches in a contaminated Red Forest near the site of the worst nuclear disaster in history, are now reportedly being treated in a special medical facility in Gomel, Belarus. The forest is so named because thousands of pine trees turned red during the 1986 nuclear disaster. The area is considered so highly toxic that not even highly specialized Chernobyl workers are allowed to enter the zone.Energoatom, the Ukrainian agency in charge of the country’s nuclear power stations, said the Russian soldiers had panicked and fled....Local reports suggest that seven buses with the zapped troops arrived in Gomel early Thursday. Journalists on the ground have also reported “ghost buses” of dead soldiers being transported from Belarus to Russia under the cover of dark....U.S. intelligence reported Wednesday that Russian forces began withdrawing from the defunct site. Russia said the withdrawal from Chernobyl was part of a pledge to scale back the invasion. But Ukrainian media says it is actually because the troops were “irradiated” from the contaminated soil.Digging trenches in the forest—considered the most contaminated area of the site—drew widespread ridicule from Ukrainians who work at the site.The debacle is the latest in a series of missteps by the Russian troops struggling to keep their footing in their increasingly failed war.
The troops, who dug trenches in a contaminated Red Forest near the site of the worst nuclear disaster in history, are now reportedly being treated in a special medical facility in Gomel, Belarus. The forest is so named because thousands of pine trees turned red during the 1986 nuclear disaster. The area is considered so highly toxic that not even highly specialized Chernobyl workers are allowed to enter the zone.
Energoatom, the Ukrainian agency in charge of the country’s nuclear power stations, said the Russian soldiers had panicked and fled.
...Local reports suggest that seven buses with the zapped troops arrived in Gomel early Thursday. Journalists on the ground have also reported “ghost buses” of dead soldiers being transported from Belarus to Russia under the cover of dark.
...U.S. intelligence reported Wednesday that Russian forces began withdrawing from the defunct site. Russia said the withdrawal from Chernobyl was part of a pledge to scale back the invasion. But Ukrainian media says it is actually because the troops were “irradiated” from the contaminated soil.
Digging trenches in the forest—considered the most contaminated area of the site—drew widespread ridicule from Ukrainians who work at the site.
The debacle is the latest in a series of missteps by the Russian troops struggling to keep their footing in their increasingly failed war.
― dow, Friday, 1 April 2022 03:02 (four years ago)
Well "failed" still a bit early to say the least, but a lot of failing is part of the general mayhem every day.
― dow, Friday, 1 April 2022 03:05 (four years ago)
Daniel_rf, I believe that the correct way to express your sentiment in this thread is actually "Vlads."
― So's your imam (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 1 April 2022 03:14 (four years ago)
The Chernobyl radiation sickness is nonsense, as far as I can tell. It’s based on a Facebook post someone made speculating about why Russian soldiers were entering a hospital in Belarus and reported as fact. Nuclear experts have said it’s impossible to get acute poisoning at current levels.
The withdrawal of troops is real, though.
― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Friday, 1 April 2022 07:00 (four years ago)
I wrote a piece on the amazing effort of the Ukrainian railways over the last month, to take millions of people to safety and continue delivering aid to the east. 64 of their employees have died since the war started https://t.co/oTmWUJui8P (with a photo essay by Jelle Krings)— Shaun Walker (@shaunwalker7) March 31, 2022
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 1 April 2022 08:36 (four years ago)
Some commentary on internal political developments in Ukraine, from Strana.news, banned by Zelensky last year. Nationalist politicians, esp. Poroshenko, versus the Zelensky govt:
“Against the backdrop of a real war, a Facebook, “sofa” war is flaring up around joining / not joining the Alliance. Part of the Ukrainian elite is trying to regain positions in politics lost after the start of full-scale hostilities, to return to the big game. And, I must say, the opposition is capable of inflating a scandal around NATO , as a result of which the deal, if it is concluded, may fail, despite the fact that the Alliance has made it clear that it is not ready to accept Ukraine...Maybe it is not worth reviving the pre-war game of inflating contradictions and weakening power in the current situation of our common country? - political scientist Vadim Karasev comments to "Strana".
As recent days have shown, even hints of a future rejection of NATO have caused serious discontent among the supporters of Euro-Atlantic integration, who are many in the Ukrainian establishment. This stratum is very influential, although heterogeneous, including ex-President Petro Poroshenko, former Defense Minister and leader of the Civic Position party Anatoliy Hrytsenko, a number of journalists...including a number of those close to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (which, by the way, suggests the position of the leadership of the Ministry). The essence of the criticism is that no agreements with Russia are worth a penny, since Russia has never fulfilled them (for example, the Budapest Memorandum).
Aleksey Arestovich, adviser to the head of the Office of the President, [responded to this criticism] most clearly. He called his counterparts "idolaters", as well as "motherfuckers." He said that back in 2019 he predicted a big war with Russia over NATO. "In the video...I clearly say: the price for joining NATO is a big war with Russia...Ok, we paid our price. And NATO?What specific assistance has NATO provided to Ukraine ?What does it mean that Ukraine was not invited to an emergency NATO meeting on February 26? What forms and ways of ensuring the security of Ukraine should we all find if we want to join NATO, but it does not want us?"
What specific assistance has NATO provided to Ukraine ?What does it mean that Ukraine was not invited to an emergency NATO meeting on February 26? What forms and ways of ensuring the security of Ukraine should we all find if we want to join NATO, but it does not want us?"
So far the only thing Russia and Ukraine are close to agreeing on is neutrality. And, apparently, that is precisely why, on this point, Zelensky's opponents inside the country began to strike.Summary: Ukraine will avoid a new catastrophe if it starts to face the truth and take action based on the need to achieve victory in a long and difficult struggle. Betting that Russia is about to collapse because of our hatred and Western sanctions is fraught with our own defeat," Yury Romanenko said.
Summary: Ukraine will avoid a new catastrophe if it starts to face the truth and take action based on the need to achieve victory in a long and difficult struggle. Betting that Russia is about to collapse because of our hatred and Western sanctions is fraught with our own defeat," Yury Romanenko said.
https://strana.news/news/382482-pochemu-vlast-i-oppozitsija-ssorjatsja-iz-za-nato.html
― The Quantum Superposition Platform - For Life (MoominTrollin), Friday, 1 April 2022 17:22 (four years ago)
A follow-up article describes Zelensky's recent decree on a "unified television policy under martial law" as a response to nationalism-pushing TV channels in "Poroshenko's sphere of influence."
According to Strana's sources close to the Office of the President and Eurosolidarity, the reason for the decision of the National Security and Defense Council on a single broadcast (across the networks) are really the intensified calls of "zrada" - "treason" - around the NATO issue. "What was Poroshenko trying to achieve? He hoped that this intensification would push Zelensky to introduce Poroshenko's people as advisers to the negotiating group, and ideally into the negotiating group itself...They were "led on" in a polite fashion. There were meetings at the middle level, but not at the highest level.""Due to the fact that they were/felt "led on", they decided to turn up the heat, and began to intensify talk of "zrada" (treason). Including on TV channels. After that, the decision of the National Security and Defense Council appeared. And this is Poroshenko's last warning to stop shaking the situation and declaring "zrada" in the negotiations," the sources say.
"Due to the fact that they were/felt "led on", they decided to turn up the heat, and began to intensify talk of "zrada" (treason). Including on TV channels. After that, the decision of the National Security and Defense Council appeared. And this is Poroshenko's last warning to stop shaking the situation and declaring "zrada" in the negotiations," the sources say.
Political analyst Vadim Karasev admits that the authorities may increase pressure on the Poroshenko group to force it to moderate attacks on Zelensky in the context of negotiations with Russia.
"It’s as if they were given to understand that now they need to be very careful in criticism. Indiscriminate criticism undermines the internal situation, which plays into the hands of the enemy. In general, it's a strange statement: some channels are patriotic, but those that run (state-mandated) war news marathons are not. You can't, in the middle of a war, run out in front of the train and shout "treason!" when you don’t know all the details of the negotiations, and even more so the situation on the fronts, as the supreme commander knows.
https://strana.news/articles/analysis/382606-otkljuchit-zradu-kak-v-op-otvetili-ukazom-na-napadki-poroshenko.html
― The Quantum Superposition Platform - For Life (MoominTrollin), Friday, 1 April 2022 17:40 (four years ago)
Well that was a rout and a half
Unbelievable.Two full-fledged axes of attack just collapsed and were abandoned within 1 or 2 days. They just left having achieved nothing.We expected Russians to get entrenched to prevent Ukraine from reinforcing Donbas, but leaving completely, en masse… unbelievable.— Illia Ponomarenko 🇺🇦 (@IAPonomarenko) April 1, 2022
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 1 April 2022 17:46 (four years ago)
EXCL: China staged a huge cyberattack on Ukraine’s military and nuclear facilities in the build-up to Russia’s invasion, according to intelligence memos obtained by The Times https://t.co/2JMkcl2iac— Larisa Brown (@larisamlbrown) April 1, 2022
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Friday, 1 April 2022 17:55 (four years ago)
Wow. Seems big if true.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Friday, 1 April 2022 18:00 (four years ago)
I respect @PhillipsPOBrien's work, & I recommend his book How the War Was Won to everyone (seriously, go read it). I also think he makes some great points in this article. However, there are some key misconceptions that matter for improving military analysis. 1/ https://t.co/jJ8enIJfcM— Christopher M. Dougherty (@C_M_Dougherty) April 1, 2022
Strana is arguably Ukraine’s least reliable news outlet but the issue is valid even if the details might be dodgy. I was reminded the other day where the Russian line about Zelenskiy’s government being maniacal drug addicts probably came from:
“European future of Ukraine” — a group directly associated with Poroshenko’s reelection campaign — is promoting a video in which his opponent & frontrunner Zelenskiy is hit by a truck. The video ends with suggestion he’s a drug addict & the message: “Everyone has their own way.” pic.twitter.com/OCBXy3ZRce— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) April 11, 2019
The big question, given their excessive influence, their links with militias and organised crime, their corruption and their underhand attempts to destabilise Zelenskiy prior to the war is how people like Poroshenko, Kolomoisky, Akhmatov, etc fit into any vision of Ukraine as an aspiring EU democracy. It seems impossible to continue on the path to European integration without somehow limiting their control.
― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Friday, 1 April 2022 18:40 (four years ago)
Seems right.More about Russians and Chernobyl (Ukraine Foreign Ministry claims were on Twitter, Energoatam's, re digging in the forest, on Telegram, among the links in this npr piece:
...When they left, Ukraine's ministry added, the Russian troops looted the power plant, taking "kettles, lab equipment, and radiation." They also took the captured Ukrainian national guard members who had been at the facility when Russia invaded in late February.In an update on conditions at the Chernobyl plant, Energoatom, Ukraine's state power company, said on Friday that all control and monitoring systems were operating normally, despite the removal of several containers and spare parts. Ukrainian workers who remained at the plant throughout the occupation to monitor it had remained safe from radiation, it added.The International Atomic Energy Agency said on Thursday that it's still working to determine the veracity of reports that Russian soldiers received high doses of radiation in the notoriously contaminated Chernobyl Exclusion Zone during more than a month of occupation.Energoatom has said Russian troops left the site after digging trenches and building fortifications in the Red Forest — an area it says is the most heavily polluted in the entire zone. Without providing details, the company said a panic broke out when the first signs of radiation sickness emerged. On Friday, the company reiterated that the greatest threat to the occupiers was likely posed by inhaling radioactive dust disturbed by their actions.
In an update on conditions at the Chernobyl plant, Energoatom, Ukraine's state power company, said on Friday that all control and monitoring systems were operating normally, despite the removal of several containers and spare parts. Ukrainian workers who remained at the plant throughout the occupation to monitor it had remained safe from radiation, it added.
The International Atomic Energy Agency said on Thursday that it's still working to determine the veracity of reports that Russian soldiers received high doses of radiation in the notoriously contaminated Chernobyl Exclusion Zone during more than a month of occupation.
Energoatom has said Russian troops left the site after digging trenches and building fortifications in the Red Forest — an area it says is the most heavily polluted in the entire zone. Without providing details, the company said a panic broke out when the first signs of radiation sickness emerged. On Friday, the company reiterated that the greatest threat to the occupiers was likely posed by inhaling radioactive dust disturbed by their actions.
― dow, Friday, 1 April 2022 20:12 (four years ago)
This morning, Ukraine would neither confirm nor deny responsibility for fire at Russian fuel depot (allegedly because two helicopters, one shot down). But now they are outright denying it. So this may or may not be the long-US-predicted Russian false flag, though that was supposedly going to be about chemical attacks---fuel depots do explode sometimes, w/o outside interference.
― dow, Friday, 1 April 2022 20:25 (four years ago)
CNN has a video of what definitely looks like helicopters attacking that fuel depot in Belgorod, Russia
If it turns out to be Ukrainian helicopters (who else?), I say good for them
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/04/01/belgorod-fuel-depot-attack-berman-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn
― Andy the Grasshopper, Friday, 1 April 2022 20:29 (four years ago)
False flag operations are designed for maximum political effect. Torching your own fuel depot during an ongoing war just doesn't fit that profile even remotely, since it wouldn't justify Russia doing anything it wasn't already doing or prepared to do without whatever political cover this might conceivably give them.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Friday, 1 April 2022 20:35 (four years ago)
Good points yall--so why deny? To gaslight/piss off the Russians even more? Seems a bit reckless, unless it's like, considering all the Russian violence alongside negotiations anyway, what the hell, since just playing defense is getting old.
― dow, Friday, 1 April 2022 21:10 (four years ago)
In a coy way, you could say that attacking a fuel depot near the border IS a defense strategy, since that fuel is likely being used in the Russian offensive
― Andy the Grasshopper, Friday, 1 April 2022 21:13 (four years ago)
Russia currently has more than 100,000 soldiers in Ukraine, shooting, bombing, and shelling. The idea that Ukraine mustn't upset them by attacking a fuel depot across the border is nonsense. I can't see any good reason to disclaim a successful attack, if they did it. Sure there could be some minor external propaganda value in maintaining that Ukraine has not attacked Russia, despite every provocation, but set that against the internal propaganda value of saying Ukraine is now 'taking the war to Russia'. If they say they didn't do it, my guess is they didn't.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Friday, 1 April 2022 21:48 (four years ago)
Xpostx8 @ ShariVari
Thank you for the clarification re: Strana, and also if there are Russian-language Ukrainian sources you can recommend for future reference, I would be grateful.
Also thank you for your thoughtful and insightful contributions in this thread, both from 2004/2014 and today's events.
The big question...is how people like Poroshenko, Kolomoisky, Akhmatov, etc fit into any vision of Ukraine as an aspiring EU democracy.
OTM, as well as your earlier statement about a future for Ukraine that minimizes the chances for right wingers or outright fascists to take power or influence politics going forward.
― The Quantum Superposition Platform - For Life (MoominTrollin), Friday, 1 April 2022 23:46 (four years ago)
...Meanwhile, the U.S. is rushing to provide Ukrainian civilians with gas masks, hazmat suits and other materials, though Kyiv could decide to send this protective gear to its military. How much has already been sent or the U.S. plans to send in total, though, remains unclear...The process to get personal protective equipment, known as PPE, to Ukraine is a classic interagency tangle. The Department of Health and Human Services is providing the equipment, with two officials saying some of it is coming from the Strategic National Stockpile.The U.S. Agency for International Development, whose Administrator Samantha Power traveled to Poland in February, then sends the assistance through existing supply lines into Ukraine and reimburses HHS for the equipment. As USAID is involved, the PPE must be for civilian — not military — use. The intended destination for the materials is Ukraine’s Ministry of Health, which made the request for assistance of the U.S. and its allies.Whether the Ministry then provides the PPE to Ukraine’s military is a local decision.
The process to get personal protective equipment, known as PPE, to Ukraine is a classic interagency tangle. The Department of Health and Human Services is providing the equipment, with two officials saying some of it is coming from the Strategic National Stockpile.
The U.S. Agency for International Development, whose Administrator Samantha Power traveled to Poland in February, then sends the assistance through existing supply lines into Ukraine and reimburses HHS for the equipment. As USAID is involved, the PPE must be for civilian — not military — use. The intended destination for the materials is Ukraine’s Ministry of Health, which made the request for assistance of the U.S. and its allies.
Whether the Ministry then provides the PPE to Ukraine’s military is a local decision.
― dow, Saturday, 2 April 2022 02:32 (four years ago)
From Mary Ilyushina's (syndicated) WaPo account of of one woman's family escaping forced relocation:
The convoy was eventually taken to Taganrog, a Russian port city on the Sea of Azov. Only there were the people from Mariupol told that their final destination would be Vladimir, a town more than 600 miles to the east
But this woman said that she convinced the Russians that "she had a friend (near Taganrog) who was willing to house her family." After being allowed to leave the convoy they got on a train to Moscow , presently moved on from there to St. Petersberg and uhhh eventually "crossed over to the EU on foot." Not much detail about that, at all, but apparently they left Mariupol with money, unlike most of their fellow citizens. Russians seemed very strict sometimes, hazy others.
― dow, Saturday, 2 April 2022 07:01 (four years ago)
Several stories with context on a lesser known decree regarding trade unions from earlier in March:
https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/ukraine-democratic-socialists-challenge-zelenskys-attack-workers-political-parties
Days earlier, parliament passed a bill to deregulate labour rights...which was signed into law by Zelensky on March 23.The law allows: employers to cancel collective labour agreements and increase the working week from 40 to 60 hours; the dismissal of workers on sick leave or vacation, as well as the sacking of trade union members without the consent of the trade union committee; women to be assigned to physically strenuous and underground labour, currently prohibited by Ukraine’s labour laws; and the suspension of an employment contract “in connection with the military aggression against Ukraine”, with responsibility for the payment of workers’ wages put on “the State committing military aggression” (Russia), not the employer.
The law allows: employers to cancel collective labour agreements and increase the working week from 40 to 60 hours; the dismissal of workers on sick leave or vacation, as well as the sacking of trade union members without the consent of the trade union committee; women to be assigned to physically strenuous and underground labour, currently prohibited by Ukraine’s labour laws; and the suspension of an employment contract “in connection with the military aggression against Ukraine”, with responsibility for the payment of workers’ wages put on “the State committing military aggression” (Russia), not the employer.
Social Movement leader Vitaliy Dudin wrote: “Restrictions imposed to protect the public interest must be proportionate to the achievement of the objective pursued. The (law) is designed to strengthen defence capabilities, but establishes the possibility of exploitation of workers at enterprises of any industry throughout Ukraine. In other words, the emergency rules provided by it can be used not to carry out work in the interests of defence, but to increase the profits of the owners.”
An interview with an anonymous journalist and trade unionist:
https://therealnews.com/economic-devastation-and-political-repression-a-trade-unionists-view-from-inside-ukraine
“A”: You need to understand that the attack on trade unions has been going on for 30 years, since the collapse of the USSR. During the Soviet era, trade unions were subject to control by the Communist Party and could not be compared to the free trade unions we know in the US or Europe. After the collapse of the USSR, we in Ukraine hoped that we could build new trade unions that would really protect the rights of workers. However, since Ukraine achieved independence, instead of reforming them, successive governments have tried to establish their control over the trade unions. Moreover, after the mass privatization of enterprises, new factory owners and industrialists began to establish control over trade unions...But then, in 2019-2020, when people began to spontaneously organize protests against the increase in utility tariffs and rising prices, and when trade unions began to join these movements, the government immediately announced that this was subversive activity serving the interests of Russia...Almost all trade unions opposed these legislative restrictions on labor rights, and the government failed to implement them. And now, using the implementation of martial law, and facing a situation where many enterprises have been destroyed by the war and millions of people have been forced to evacuate to safe regions or even other countries, the Ukrainian parliament has adopted the most severe restrictions on labor rights and trade unions...The severity of the situation also comes down to the fact that the unions cannot go on strike now, nor can they openly oppose these draconian measures.
But then, in 2019-2020, when people began to spontaneously organize protests against the increase in utility tariffs and rising prices, and when trade unions began to join these movements, the government immediately announced that this was subversive activity serving the interests of Russia...Almost all trade unions opposed these legislative restrictions on labor rights, and the government failed to implement them.
And now, using the implementation of martial law, and facing a situation where many enterprises have been destroyed by the war and millions of people have been forced to evacuate to safe regions or even other countries, the Ukrainian parliament has adopted the most severe restrictions on labor rights and trade unions...The severity of the situation also comes down to the fact that the unions cannot go on strike now, nor can they openly oppose these draconian measures.
Later in the interview, he suggests future policies that could prevent extreme nationalists and/or fascists from taking power in Ukraine:
In order to stop this war, and in order to avoid its repetition in the future—not only in Ukraine, but anywhere in Europe—it is necessary to demand from governments, including the US government, that they reconsider the political and economic integration of the former Soviet republics into modern political and economic associations. All these years, since gaining independence, Ukraine has been left on the margins of global integration. This contributed to the flourishing of corruption, selective justice, and the spread of poverty and misery in Ukraine. The same thing happened in Russia, where these processes have been intensified by Putin’s authoritarianism.
The governments of the leading democracies turned a blind eye to this for decades, only pretending to show concern for these very real problems. In fact, Western corporations at this time were making billions of dollars of investments in Ukraine and Russia, cashing in on cheap labor, cheap raw materials, and the ability to easily resolve any issues with our governments through corrupt, backroom deals. For the sake of maintaining these profits, controlling the labor movement, and tamping down labor protests, they often supported very reactionary political forces in our countries and literally nurtured authoritarian rulers.
Another story on the law:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ukraine-suspends-labour-law-war-russia/
― Comrade Caviar, Колбаса Комиссариат (MoominTrollin), Saturday, 2 April 2022 17:45 (four years ago)
Western corporations at this time were making billions of dollars of investments in Ukraine and Russia, cashing in on cheap labor, cheap raw materials, and the ability to easily resolve any issues with our governments through corrupt, backroom deals. For the sake of maintaining these profits, controlling the labor movement, and tamping down labor protests, they often supported very reactionary political forces in our countries and literally nurtured authoritarian rulers.
the same old story of neo-colonialism in a nutshell
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 2 April 2022 17:49 (four years ago)
They are bringing the dance on home now, why nurture authoritarianism in other countries when you can do so in good ole' USA for fun and profit.
― earlnash, Saturday, 2 April 2022 17:52 (four years ago)
Not seeing any news site (like with reporters) w news of what greenleft claims to be Law of Ukraine “On the Organisation of Labour Relations in Martial Law” (7160)
― dow, Saturday, 2 April 2022 18:16 (four years ago)
From the legislature (Verkhovna Rada), passed on March 15th:
https://www.rada.gov.ua/en/news/News/220575.html
Defined special labor regulations during the martial law (Reg. No. 7160)
Signed by Zelensky March 23rd:
https://itd.rada.gov.ua/billInfo/Bills/Card/39225
23.03.2022 Повернуто з підписом від Президента (Returned with the signature of the President)
https://ukranews.com/en/news/843640-zelenskyy-signs-law-on-labor-relations-during-martial-law
https://interfax.com.ua/news/general/813875.html
― Comrade Caviar, Колбаса Комиссариат (MoominTrollin), Saturday, 2 April 2022 18:45 (four years ago)
So much for basic Google. How did you find all that?
― dow, Saturday, 2 April 2022 19:21 (four years ago)
I searched google news at first but that didn't bring me (very many) results, then I searched by the number of the bill indicated in some of the results, and ended up at the Verkhovna Rada site, where I was able to confirm the passing and eventually the signing as well.
― Comrade Caviar, Колбаса Комиссариат (MoominTrollin), Saturday, 2 April 2022 19:43 (four years ago)
I had tried the number of the bill---anyway, giving workers even less incentive to stick around.
― dow, Saturday, 2 April 2022 19:53 (four years ago)
Grim news the last couple of days, obviously. Some thoughts from OBrien
Reflections on the state of the war, attrition, atrocity and why Russia is heading for an even greater disaster than expected (and I wrote from the start I didnt see how they could win this war)--all compounded by their own choices which are speeding up their army's dissolution.— Phillips P. OBrien (@PhillipsPOBrien) April 3, 2022
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 3 April 2022 16:52 (four years ago)