The Sopranos Vs. The Wire

I think Avon is actually like a composite of a bunch of (I recall the number 5) guys, but yeah, sarahel is correct.

i guess i'm right around where mark cl & shakey are... just finished s3 e8(?) a couple of nights back. i've actually enjoyed McNulty this season; his self-doubt vis-a-vis the short-lived chicken lady romance was handled well. nice counterbalance to the all swagger all the time.

I actually like McNulty when he's being an asshole.

also v. curious about Marlo's weird little clique (chris?, snoop etc).

heh, that gets, shall we say DEVELOPED somewhat.

The Wire 116
The Sopranos 30

aw/rmde

ya a lot of ilx is pretty wrong tho

white people getting the short end of the stick again, welcome to america

well, im glad you favour 'the wire' on its intrinsic merits rather than the skin colour of some of its cast members

this is THE most RMDE poll result ever on ILX, if just because of sheer numbers. it is bonkers.

well, im glad you favour 'the wire' on its intrinsic merits rather than the skin colour of some of its cast members

― history mayne, Thursday, 10 March 2011 18:38 (1 minute ago) Bookmark

ya if he hadn't said that we might have assumed he liked it on its intrsinic merits rather than as an avenue for college age crackers to sublimate their shitty racist background via an overcompensatory love for friendly fictional black ppl

syllables, you're abusing them

friendly fictional murderous black people

while we're delving into the psychology of the voters lets discuss the international obsession w/ all things mafia

frankly the wire covers subjects more relevent to the state of the country via the drug war & corruption, the war on america's cities etc than the issues the sopranos grapples w/ so im not surprised it resonates more. not saying the wire is even per se 'better' (although i prefer it) but it's more fresh terrain topically & also more 'relevent'

i used relevant twice sorry

rephrase as more 'germane to the state of the country's moral fiber'

most otm poll results ever

in human history

frankly the wire covers subjects more relevent to the state of the country via the drug war & corruption, the war on america's cities etc than the issues the sopranos grapples w/ so im not surprised it resonates more.

Get a grip, dude. The Wire is a show about inner city crime, The Sopranos is a show about a family.

the 'death of the american city' stuff may be good for slate articles but i'm not sure many people really like the wire ~primarily~ because of david simon's thoughts on matters germane to the state of the country's moral fiber

the 'death of the american city' stuff may be good for slate articles but i'm not sure many people really like the wire ~primarily~ because of david simon's thoughts on matters germane to the state of the country's moral fiber

― maxwell's silva hamartia (nakhchivan), Thursday, March 10, 2011 1:47 PM (9 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think ppl like it for lots of reasons & i dont know about anyone else but for me personally i think a show that grapples w/ not just the death of amer. city but also the ongoing war on 'drugs'/poor/black ppl in inner cities, the incarceration industry, etc. is going to be more refreshing for discussing issues that are imo central to who we are as a country right now. the psychology of mafia families is less compelling to me, esp since its such a long-running trope, even if its done in a refreshing or compelling way as it was w/ the sopranos

Get a grip, dude. The Wire is a show about inner city crime, The Sopranos is a show about a family.

― gawka flocka flamewar (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, March 10, 2011 1:44 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

not sure what u are saying here

the wire is about a lot more than inner ciy crime -- its about drugs/educational institutions / the behavior of ineffecient/corrupt beauracracies / incarceration industry / race & class / the destruction of unions / (somewhat hamhandidly) the responsiility of the press etc.

i think ppl like it for lots of reasons & i dont know about anyone else but for me personally i think a show that grapples w/ not just the death of amer. city but also the ongoing war on 'drugs'/poor/black ppl in inner cities, the incarceration industry, etc. is going to be more refreshing for discussing issues that are imo central to who we are as a country right now.

this isn't really talking points stuff, every ~right thinking~ person knows these things are terrible! and the wire does a pretty good job of showing them, but you could (and ppl do) use the same logic to valourize crappy ken loach films that say the right things about social problems

the psychology of mafia families is less compelling to me

dude the mafia family psychology angle is a METAPHOR

think harder.

its about drugs/educational institutions / the behavior of ineffecient/corrupt beauracracies / incarceration industry / race & class / the destruction of unions /

Sopranos hits all these k thx bye

the difference is Sopranos is not super-literal DO YOU SEE about hitting those themes

well, i mean, aside from shakey, we all p much agree these are both compelling shows right? its not that i think the subject matter makes it 'better.' its that i think it explains why it might resonate more w/ people now, it says stuff about things that feel immediately consequential & that we are as a society complicit in. regardless of whether or not one show is 'better' -- acted, written, whatever -- since they're both done really really well i think it makes sense to look to the subject matter for reasons these poll results seem so imbalanced

not sure what u are saying here

― deej, Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:50 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

saying your idea of "oh noes our american cities" being what resonates, actually probably will not resonate nearly as immediately and universally as "having a family is complicated"

i think it makes sense to look to the subject matter for reasons these poll results seem so imbalanced

― deej, Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:00 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

an avenue for college age crackers to sublimate their shitty racist background via an overcompensatory love for friendly fictional black ppl

― maxwell's silva hamartia (nakhchivan), Thursday, March 10, 2011 1:45 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

aside from shakey,

I dunno how many times I have to say it (a few more, evidently) I think these are both good shows. I enjoyed most of the Wire, it is good stuff. But Sopranos is like next level/so much better.

otm

sopranos does hit broader themes than mafia psychology of course, abt violence etc, but its much less specific / is still 'about' mafioso ish. which is fine for art, doesnt mean its worse obv -- but its a v different way of going about it & no it doesnt really engage w/ the same issues the wire does, it certainly doesnt go about explaining the behavior of those institutions the way the wire does

shakey relax

that nakh post is bs

deej which show do you think is better

i for one am shocked that whiney agrees with a theory that presumes motives of the ppl voting for what he disagrees with in a condescending way

deej which show do you think is better

― swag the dog (J0rdan S.), Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:04 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i prefer the wire but its v close

if you're otm-ing a nakchivan post about secret white ppl racism that also uses the word "crackers" then i think it might be time to retire from the discussion

is all i'm saying

mostly for the reasons i stated above -- i like the journalistic aspects of the wire, the way it relies on 'how things really work in the real world' as a framework for fiction ... obv as a fan of rap music its a style of presentation v close to my 'thing' ... this reality rap, i really go through it

I enjoyed most of the Wire, it is good stuff. But Sopranos is like next level/so much better.

― You hurt me deeply. You hurt me deeply in my heart. (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 March 2011 20:03 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

totally

nonwhite people never watch the wire btw

also ilx is trying to give me a heart attack

oh no white college kids

they're coming to misapply your critical lenses

it certainly doesnt go about explaining the behavior of those institutions the way the wire does

I consider this a virtue. Sopranos shows, the Wire tells. Let's consider, for example, the issue of recidivism. When Avon gets out of jail and returns to the street, we've witnessed the entire sequence of events from his crimes, to his arrest, to his trial, to his jail time, to his return to the Barksdale organization and his subsequent problems. This takes what, 3 seasons? and is portrayed very literally, in minutiae. The audience is given a very clear picture of how this guy is not reformed, and in some ways, returns to the streets an even more committed criminal than he was before. After which he comes into conflict with his former partner, and is murdered.

The Sopranos addresses this topic almost completely differently. Richie Aprile, Feech La Manna, and Tony Blundetto all deal with getting out of jail and adjusting to their new lives differently. they each get a few episodes (well, Richie gets almost a whole season, more or less), and how they served their time (lol Richie did yoga), what they did before, etc. is mostly dealt with eliptically and carefully woven into the fabric of the show through references to previous events (the card game that Tony and Jackie stuck up to make their name, etc.), it's addressed via asides and small details. The way Tony deals with Feech is explicitly related to his learning from what happened with Richie ("nip it in the bud", he says), and it's taken as a given that both guys once out would return to their lives of crime and cause problems for everybody. Feech's downfall is covered by a couple of scenes that maybe take up 10 minutes - we don't even see him get arrested, just the look of resignation on his face when his parole officer asks to see his garage. Blundetto's conflict with trying to go straight is so well-done (also written by Matthew Weiner, fwiw) - no one really believes him, most figure he's working an angle, and when he slips back into doing hits it's out of a carefully portrayed jealousy of Tony's financial security and the resignation that it's the easiest way out for him. He has a sudden, almost totally unexpected outburst of violence when he beats his Korean benefactor. What is going through Blundetto's head is never really made explicit or obvious, you have to tease it out from the way he handles different situations and people (getting his truck stolen, resisting Tony's offers of assistance, moodily hanging around Tony's pool with his kids, handling his Korean boss, his relationship with his girlfriend). It's just way more nuanced. By the end it's clear that even with his trying to go straight and having a career path open to him, the pull of easy money and cathartic violence is too much. Blundetto's dilemma just packs so much more of an emotional wallop than Barksdale's cold "I'M A GANGSTA AND I ALWAYS WILL BE" posturing, there's just so much more depth there.

xp

I mean Blundetto seems like a real, 3-dimensional person. Avon is like a caricature by comparison.

the orange is the color orange, all over. the apple never once is colored orange.

re: recidivism depth, what about that boxing dude? and poops (I forget his nickname -- it's like poops or snots or something) at foot locker?

the blundetto story was probably the weakest in the sopranos, v much david chase padding out an extra season at the behest of hbo

the feech le manna parole violation was really neatly done tho

"The audience is given a very clear picture of how this guy is not reformed, and in some ways, returns to the streets an even more committed criminal than he was before. After which he comes into conflict with his former partner, and is murdered."

Avon goes back to jail.

ts: cast of 80 vs. cast of 8