ok what the fuck is happening in ukraine

According to Wikipedia 3.3 million refugees have left the country and 6.5 million are internally displaced, closing in on a quarter of the population

Is Russia's aim now to empty the country and re-populate? While destablizing destination countries? How realistic is that?

They don’t know about us
And they don’t know about Lviv

Another ruskie general bites the dust.

Thought this was a really good point.

people obviously worry about nuclear escalation, but the 'world war' is more likely to be the resource war. Example one: https://t.co/lSD42Suy85

— jamie k (@jkbloodtreasure) March 18, 2022

xpost@Boring_Maryland

The kids are all right.

https://i.imgur.com/cRaC1Zl.jpg?1

Good thread, I thought. One of the small handful of analysts I'm keeping an eye on.

Returning to this tween about the Russian attempt to take Kyiv which was put together almost a week ago. The mathematical dilemma is even worse now for the Russians. https://t.co/dmVBGhuKjn

— Phillips P. OBrien (@PhillipsPOBrien) March 19, 2022

Another ruskie general bites the dust.

This now brings the total to five, which, again, if the estimate of 20 generals in the force is accurate means they've now lost a full quarter of them, an insane metric. (By all accounts a number of colonels are being specifically targeted as well.)

Well, at least now Sting knows how the Russians feel about their generals.

“Returning to this tween”

Don’t tell us about your sex life please

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/to-catch-a-predator/images/2/29/6b7f722f-750a-45d8-aca4-d3db587ded7f.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190722205639

Lol

the non-profit, non-partisan military analysts at the Institute For The Study Of War, suggest that Ukrainian defense and counter-offensives have created the conditions of a stalemate by forcing the Russians to dig into their current positions. They suggest it seems unlikely the the Russian forces will be able to gain much ground in certain key areas. More nuance and citations here - https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-19

unfortunately stalemates tend to invite escalations on both sides as they seek to break the stalemate in their favor. much better if diplomacy finds an exit that doesn't dismember Ukraine.

well, yeah, a stalemate is not a cessation of violence, just the state of the violence failing to accomplish the operational goals of the commanders.

Also, some experts not impressed by Russian (claimed) use of hypersonic missile today: "hardly a gamechanger," sniff. Hope they're right:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60806151

In a livestream last night, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy ordered the banning of the nation's 11 remaining left-wing opposition parties:

"Opposition Platform - For Life, Sharij’s Party, Nashi, Opposition Bloc, Left Opposition, Union of Left Forces, Derzhava, (1/6) pic.twitter.com/vve7K8refV

— Challenge Magazine (@ChallengeYCL) March 20, 2022

Irrespective of whether suspending them during a period of martial law is a good thing, OPFL, Shariy’s Party, Opposition Bloc and Nashi are absolutely not left-wing parties and wouldn’t claim to be.

are Opposition Platform For Life actually pro-Putin? I can't imagine anyone is rn and they do have 44 democratically elected MPs in parliament.

They’ve condemned the invasion fwiw. On the other hand, there have been suggestions that their chairman, Yuriy Boyko, has been earmarked as a Russia-mandated PM in the event of a negotiated power sharing agreement.

US special operators are currently on the ground in Ukraine doing “operational prep of the battlefield,” according to a well informed source.

The military unit is JSOC’s Advance Force Operations, including members of Delta Force and SEAL Team 6.

— Seth Harp (@sethharpesq) March 20, 2022

It’s gonna be a long year.

Seems like there was something a few weeks ago about them preparing to "rescue" Zelenskyy.

if you didn't think US had troops on the ground this whole time i have a bridge to sell you

Western "leftists" whitewashing Eastern European Nazbol groups again

The "Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine" are fascists affiliated the LaRouche cult and to Aleksandr Dugin's International Eurasian Movement

The party itself is a member of Putin's All-Russia People's Front https://t.co/Rxpnr04qY9

— अक्ष 🌉 اکش 𓃠🦤🌻🏳️‍🌈🏴🚩↙️↙️↙️ (@4kshatra) March 20, 2022

Aaaaylmao

Here's a fun game to play: take any leftist "explaining Ukraine" and look up their name in this article.

https://libcom.org/library/investigation-red-brown-alliances-third-positionism-russia-ukraine-syria-western-left

There's more non-Slav, non-Ukrainian or even non-Russian leftists regurgitating this horseshit to a gullible or ideologically primed Western audience than there are Americans in this Ukraine thread.

It’s going to be nationalised! pic.twitter.com/osOvt9yTKQ

— i_was_a_miner (@i_was_a_miner) March 14, 2022

Are Opposition Platform For Life actually pro-Putin? Well, that 'golden carriage' up above with the very nice glasses featuring the Russian double-eagle might give you a hint. It only belonged to pro-Putin oligarch Viktor Medvedchuk, until recently co-chairman of the party.

On 5 November 2018, one of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s closest associates and chief of staff to former Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma, Viktor Medvedchuk was elected chairman of the party For Life political party's council.[21][22][23] Medvedchuk was also leader of the Ukrainian Choice NGO, a socially conservative pro-Russian political group and partially prohibited in Ukraine as openly anti-Ukrainian.[24]

On 7 March 2022 the party deprived Medvedchuk of the post of co-chairman of the party; making Yuriy Boyko the sole chairman.

Must've been a tough decision if it took them that long after the war started. Of course, they did manage to drop this guy:

On 24 February 2022 Russia launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine.[50] On this day party member Illia Kyva expressed support for the invasion and blamed the war on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and urged him to resign.

Maybe he was too anti-imperialist?

are Opposition Platform For Life actually pro-Putin? I can't imagine anyone is rn and they do have 44 democratically elected MPs in parliament.

― calzino, Sunday, 20 March 2022 bookmarkflaglink

They’ve condemned the invasion fwiw. On the other hand, there have been suggestions that their chairman, Yuriy Boyko, has been earmarked as a Russia-mandated PM in the event of a negotiated power sharing agreement.

― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Sunday, 20 March 2022 bookmarkflaglink

It's one to watch. Irrespective of whether they are actual leftists it is a signal that Zelensky is content to tar the left in the Ukraine as pro-Russia and go after opposition parties.

Moomin doing the VHS routine of concern trolling over left twitter accounts of groups that don't have any influence doesn't change that either.

As opposed to you concern trolling over Ukrainian democracy in the middle of a war that Russia started? Cheers.

I mean you all could have picked a guy who's not like, the Trump of Ukraine instead of just saying "liberal hero Zelensky bad for banning socialist parties in Ukraine"

https://i.imgur.com/B9Ps27x.png

As opposed to you concern trolling over Ukrainian democracy in the middle of a war that Russia started? Cheers.

― the sky was the color of television tuned to a woke channel (MoominTrollin), Sunday, 20 March 2022 bookmarkflaglink

I'll look at the news, you follow libcom.

Moomin, I think many of us trying to say that banning political parties, even in a time of national emergency, isn’t a great thing for a nascent democracy nor a good look for Zelensky.

xpost@xyzzzz

Your news is "the magazine of the Young Communist League of Britain," which you apparently take at face value. If you can't be bothered to google the most cursory, public information available about these parties, while simultaneously condemning Zelensky for banning them, I'm not really surprised.

https://i.imgur.com/lOfDZDe.jpg

@boring, maryland

Yes, I agree, but you know, extenuating circumstances, and this particular party's past should probably be taken into account. There's also the perception that having "socialist" or "communist" in the name means the same thing over there that it does here. It does not. It's warmed over nostalgia for an imperial past that's forever dead.

Well then you and I will have to disagree. I think banning political parties no matter how vile is a line democracies shouldn’t cross.

I think you'd be hard pressed to identify a western democracy which has never banned a political party. It is a fairly common response when a nation feels it is facing an extreme existential threat.

"Your news is "the magazine of the Young Communist League of Britain""

It's being reported in the main press. If you want to follow that up with a dunk on libcom then it's you that has a problem.

I think you'd be hard pressed to identify a western democracy which has never banned a political party. It is a fairly common response when a nation feels it is facing an extreme existential threat.

I think you'd be hard pressed to identify a western democracy which has never banned a political party

Greece banning Golden Dawn?

xxpost@xyzzzz

I suspect our real difference is not about Ukraine but about the legacy/reputation/history of the Soviet Union. I don't doubt we disagree on that point, but if you're coming at the events in Ukraine from that perspective, you're missing the forest for the trees. The USSR will never come back, and if Russia/Ukraine became Communist tomorrow, they wouldn't even look like the USSR did. Nor is Russia today - in almost any way - similar to the USSR, except for using its 40-year old military hardware.

Hence the "nostalgia for a dead empire": most of the people in the former Soviet republics and Russia itself don't care about any of the leftist aspects of the USSR. They care about having had a big empire that "won" against Germany, without even knowing who the Nazis were. This is why Nazis are seen as "anti-Russian" but not, for example, anti-Jewish specifically - it's a legacy not so much of poor education as intentional omission. Sure, the Soviets lost tens of millions in WW2. But making it about "anti-Russian" or "anti-Soviet" Germans instead of teaching people what most Westerners learn by grade school leads to this kind of myopia among Russians and post-Soviet people. It's the same kind of poisonous boomer mentality that has led Americans who revere JFK to go down the rabbit hole of Qanon.

I don't doubt you're genuine in your support of leftist parties but once again, I don't see anything about that support or your ideals that make viewing the conflict through this lens particularly useful. YMMV.

Pretty sure the US hasn’t?

Nope. The USA banned the Communist Party in the 1950s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954

I was thinking it was odd that Russia could still be seen as leftist so leftist parties being pro-Russian seemed odd. If it's just a name with a different tradition that makes more sense. counter intuitive though it may seem.

Also is McCarthyite clampdown on communism not amounting to the same thing as banning a party in the US?

it seems to me that pointing out the error in Boring's statement only strengthens his stance—unless you think banning the Communist Party was good for democracy?

Naive question but what does Zelenskyy stand for in "normal times"?

(This is a non-snark question).

German-American Bund was banned in America.

Aside from being bad for democracy in general and a stupid thing to defend as "everybody does it!" there's a bit of difference in banning a party that had ~35k members and no elected representatives and banning a party with legislative representation.

The Socialist Party/et al. weren't banned during WWI and the first red scare but jailing Debs and other anti-war voices is probably a better parallel or Lincoln suspending habeas corpus - and also not bright shining achievements in American democracy.

Naive question but what does Zelenskyy stand for in "normal times"?

I don’t think there is a clear answer to this. He’s deliberately run on ‘not being the other guy/s’ (less corrupt, less nationalistic, less tied to establishment factions, etc) rather than having an extensive policy agenda or defined ideology.

"less corrupt"

then it came out he was one of the dodgy fuckers mentioned in the pandora papers

"but if you're coming at the events in Ukraine from that perspective, you're missing the forest for the trees."

It sounds like you are far more into the Soviet Union angle than I am. I was purely putting out the item as data point on Zelensky and how he might utilise power if/when there is a ceasefire.

You chose to link to Libcom contributors as an example of leftist perspective you loathe when thet aren't into the nostalgia for the USSR you were describing. I'd take a rest rather than post.

I don't loathe LibCom contributors, xyzzzz. You're misreading this. I linked to that article FROM LibCom. The article is ABOUT leftist perspectives I loathe, and so (apparently) does LibCom. I made that very clear when I said you could search FOR the names of said leftists in an article ABOUT them. LibCom and I are in agreement when it comes to that article.

xxxxxpost@regarding Zelensky

Zelensky ran on a compromise peace platform in spring 2019, and after the summer of Trump's perfect phone call, tried to negotiate said peace - even against the wishes of many Ukrainians. Once that fell through in late 2019 and Covid started up, I'm pretty sure he swung around to his current position. He's by no means a rabid nationalist, nor consistently so, but this war has very, very obviously intensified both his and the country's opposition to a compromise peace.

This is not an isolated incident in Ukrainian history. When Bush made his ill-advised speech in 2008 (implying but not guaranteeing NATO membership to Georgia and Ukraine), there were anti-NATO protests in the streets of Kyiv:

"In central Kiev, several hundred protesters defied a court ban and shouted anti-Nato slogans in Independence Square, the focal point of the 2004 pro-western "orange revolution" protests, which swept Yushchenko to power. A few thousand protesters were massed in the square today ahead of Bush's arrival.
For many Ukrainians, joining Nato is not a priority. Only 30% of respondents in the former Soviet state support the move."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/01/nato.georgia

As late as October 2013 66% of Ukrainians were against joining NATO. Even in March 2014 over half were against.

What happened between then and now to make them change their feelings is left as an exercise for the reader.

"I don't loathe LibCom contributors, xyzzzz. You're misreading this. I linked to that article FROM LibCom. The article is ABOUT leftist perspectives I loathe, and so (apparently) does LibCom. I made that very clear when I said you could search FOR the names of said leftists in an article ABOUT them. LibCom and I are in agreement when it comes to that article."

Lol ok it was a weird thing to bring up as a reaction to that news item.