ok what the fuck is happening in ukraine

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Readdle is another Ukrainian software corp. They publish PDF Expert among other useful things
https://readdle.com

Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 15 March 2022 22:58 (two years ago) link

Also worth considering for xp donations: St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital, which is facilitating evacuations and triage on the ground in Ukraine (The Cancer Letter, March 4, 2022). And others mentioned in this issue: https://cancerletter.com/the-cancer-letter/20220311_1/

dow, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 01:08 (two years ago) link

And, uh, speaking of hospitals:
LVIV, Ukraine — Russian troops seized a hospital in Mariupol and took about 500 people hostage during another assault on the southern port city late Tuesday, regional leader Pavlo Kyrylenko said.

Russians troops drove 400 people from neighboring houses into Regional Intensive Care Hospital, Kyrylenko said on the messaging app Telegram. About 100 doctors and patients also are believed to be inside, he said.

The troops are using those inside the hospital as human shields and are not allowing anyone to leave, he said. Might be some more extensive accounts, but this is the latest post I've seen:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/russian-troops-take-500-hostages-at-hospital-ukrainian-official-says-01647391786

dow, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 01:16 (two years ago) link

An anti-war piece that takes in the history of the region.

https://www.e-flux.com/journal/125/453868/the-case-against-the-russian-federation/

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 10:20 (two years ago) link

"...in Ukraine, the Russians operate as if they are dealing with Russia itself. Whatever works in Russia, they think, must work in Ukraine. Because, you know, it’s one and the same."

Yes!

As far as Kyiv being responsible for later Slav colonialism, it's a more difficult case to make. The Rus were responsible for a lot of extermination and conquest, but at the same time the physical and cultural boundaries were a lot more porous than those of the later Muscovite state and Russian empire. The Drevlians who St. Olha famously exterminated actually survived their mythical doom, same as many Finno-Ugric tribes in the northeast, future heartland of Muscovy. Pecheneg nomad peoples and customs were also incorporated - or had influence on - the culture of Kievan Rus. Even in later Muscovy, many nobles were openly proud of their Mongol ancestry (at least till the 1700's turn to Europe). And so on.

There's no font of pure ethnic Slav heritage from which the empire sprang; the identity was constructed, modified, or wholly re-shaped to fit the circumstances of the day.

There's still a lot to back up his point, though: you can see this brutality in Ivan the Terrible's treatment of Kazan and Novgorod, or the 1700's Russian Empire in Crimea, and later the 19th century policies of "Russianization." The less the Russian empire or the USSR acknowledged and respected its multi-ethnic composition, the more brutal its policies became. This repression often directly resulted in fervent nationalist movements all over the place. The cycle continues today.

the sky was the color of television tuned to a woke channel (MoominTrollin), Wednesday, 16 March 2022 13:05 (two years ago) link

Cameo on The Simpsons to follow:

Putin just said the west is trying to "cancel" Russia

— max seddon (@maxseddon) March 16, 2022

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 14:29 (two years ago) link

They've been on that tip for a while now. Considering both the NYT and the Atlantic managed to churn out concern troll-y pieces on campus cancel culture while this is going on ya can't blame Russia for thinking it's a troll that could work.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 14:35 (two years ago) link

It's okay, Russia. You can just move to Florida and take pictures of yourself smoking cigars and eating steak.

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Wednesday, 16 March 2022 15:32 (two years ago) link

I forget where I saw this (maybe even here) but someone made the point that American cultural hegemony is so widespread over the world that even "anti-American" Russian politicians are using vocabulary like "cancel culture."

the sky was the color of television tuned to a woke channel (MoominTrollin), Wednesday, 16 March 2022 16:02 (two years ago) link

Lotta stuff coming in on reddit and twitter supposedly from American volunteers complaining that they are not being given adequate equipment and/or training before being sent into battle. If true it's really mind boggling how ppl can willingly head into a fucking war zone and think the reality's gonna be as clean as Call of Duty or something.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 16:16 (two years ago) link

In the heat of battle, but still making time to post on reddit?

I wonder who's really behind those posts

Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 16:19 (two years ago) link

The story isn't that they're in the heat of battle fwiw.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 16:20 (two years ago) link

This morning, before Zelensky addressed Congress:
caption: Fifteen flights of military shipment, including 90 tons of ammunition and Javelin missile systems for Ukraine armed forces arrive in Ukraine on February 11. (Eyepress/Reuters)
As Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky prepares to ask Congress for further military aid to his country, the US and its NATO allies are already sending several surface-to-air missiles systems to Ukraine to aid in its defense.

According to a senior US official, these additional systems include the Soviet-era SA-8, SA-10, SA-12 and SA-14 mobile air defense systems.

These systems have a lower altitude range than the S-300 system, which Ukraine has requested. However, they have a range higher than the Stinger shoulder-fired missiles previously supplied to Ukraine, giving them the capability to hit cruise missiles.

The systems have been sourced from NATO partner nations and are “on the way,” according to this senior US official. It is not clear at this time how these systems will be backfilled to the providing country. From CNN---so this is basically the same deal as Poland proposed, giving them older stuff, or of older design, and then getting newer stuff from US as replacement? Why give older stuff? Keeping the new for when/if Putin goes over the Polish border (Biden said even if "by accident," that's some kind of red line)?

Also this A.M., an interview w official who said US might send Switchblade drones, the larger of which can take out tanks. Host asked what distinction could be made between increasingly lethal drones and air-to-ground missiles already being sent, vs. no-fly zone enforcement by pilots---in terms of what's considered not too likely to "escalate." Other guy said that is the question being debated in Pentagon x White House.

dow, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 16:37 (two years ago) link

Host asked what distinction could be made between increasingly lethal drones and air-to-ground missiles already being sent, vs. no-fly zone enforcement by pilots

It's straightforward enough. Enforcing a no-fly zone by definition is not something the Ukraine military does anyway. It is fighting a war and will shoot down any enemy aircraft without such nonsense as declaring a no-fly zone. The missiles the US and others supply will be used for this, but will be fired by Ukrainian forces. As soon as NATO forces begin enforcing a no-fly zone they would begin committing acts of war against Russia.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 16 March 2022 16:49 (two years ago) link

Yeah but what they're weighing/arguing about are what's considered likely to go over the line into escalation (also most likely kind x degree of escalation, I take it), even short of no-fly---is there something involving drones etc. that might tip the scales, be just as provocative?

dow, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 17:19 (two years ago) link

Meanwhile, Vlad appears to be taking things well

I have translated and added subtitles to the latest video speech by Vladimir Putin from two hours ago. Please don’t let it go in vain - I want everyone to see what a speech of true fascism looks like.

No further comment needed, it’s all here, in his speech pic.twitter.com/QEzsG9BODX

— Michael Elgort 🤍❤️🤍🇺🇦✡️ (@just_whatever) March 16, 2022

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 17:57 (two years ago) link

Meantime about that one mayor

Ukraine released Melitopol Mayor Ivan Fedorov, kidnapped by Russian occupiers! It was a special operation, he is safe now, Deputy Head of the Presidential Office Kyrylo Tymoshenko said in a statement. "We don't leave our people in danger!" Tymoshenko said!

— Nika Melkozerova (@NikaMelkozerova) March 16, 2022

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 18:02 (two years ago) link

"I do not at all judge those who have a villa in Miami or on the French Riviera who can't do without foie gras, oysters, or the so-called gender freedoms"

Someone tell Vlad about Florida

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Wednesday, 16 March 2022 18:07 (two years ago) link

Rough read but says a lot

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-russia-voznesensk-town-battle-11647444734

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 18:10 (two years ago) link

wait didn't Vlad buy his mistress a villa on the french riviera??

Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 18:12 (two years ago) link

"Anarchy for me, fascism for you," as Black Flag bassist Chuck Dukowski once put it.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 16 March 2022 18:13 (two years ago) link

Ned, do you have a WSJ subscription?

Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 16 March 2022 19:11 (two years ago) link

not ned but if you really want to see the article I can c/p, have access through work

underminer of twenty years of excellent contribution to this borad (dan m), Wednesday, 16 March 2022 19:16 (two years ago) link

xpost Work access. Being employed by a library is useful.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 19:26 (two years ago) link

that WSJ article here:

https://archive.ph/doZW1

the sky was the color of television tuned to a woke channel (MoominTrollin), Wednesday, 16 March 2022 19:30 (two years ago) link

Hahah WHOOPS if you're Putin

There couldn’t be a more powerful sign of which way the wind is blowing in Ukraine. China meeting with Ukraine officials in Lviv. “We have seen how great the unity of the Ukrainian people is” the Chinese ambassador is quoted as saying https://t.co/buwanatiLx

— Liz Sly (@LizSly) March 16, 2022

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 19:50 (two years ago) link

Which way the wind, indeed.
XP they're still going after those nuclear plants, reminding me that last word I saw from Chernobyl was of being forced to work round-the-clock.
I see print ed. of WSJ during library visits, and earlier this week a military scholar commented that, although Vlad may have indeed been alarmed by all those countries joining NATO, there was a concurrent fall in actual troops on NATO-related location (reaching a low point in 2014, when Ukraine began receiving a lot of military instruction and other assistence from member countries).
So now I wonder, if Vlad does xpost cross a red line into Poland etc, rapid response would have to be via missiles and drones etc., I take it, since "actual troops" seemed to incl. air force, for the most part (although Poland itself has the MiGs, apparently). Seems like why troop levels would have been lowered, after all the George W Boots On The Ground shit, though may yet come to that, as Peacekeepers and Advisors at least.

dow, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 20:06 (two years ago) link

Drones can be tricky, of course, re hitting the wrong people, places and things. Sorry to get so speculative, but seems like Putin may get impatient enough to escalate at any point, whatever explanation he may give later.

dow, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 20:12 (two years ago) link

the putin’s speech is like the tl;dr of all the latest propaganda BS that is being pushed in russia. the fact that it’s being pushed much more aggressively now combined with just as aggressive silencing of anything that disagrees with the official line is telling me they are realizing things aren’t going exactly well. my hope is that this aggressiveness will have the exact opposite effect.

scanner darkly, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 20:16 (two years ago) link

Which way the wind, indeed.

Yeah, that's why they're all wearing masks.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 20:26 (two years ago) link

NEW: Details on the possible Russia-Ukraine deal

– Russia ceases fire and withdraws
– Ukrainian "neutrality" without Nato
– Kyiv keeps its army but can't host foreign bases
– Russian gets legal status in Ukraine

with @ArashMassoudi and Roman Olearchykhttps://t.co/vPMUR0dekS

— max seddon (@maxseddon) March 16, 2022

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 22:51 (two years ago) link

'Russian gets legal status in Ukraine'

What does this mean? the language?

Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 23:29 (two years ago) link

There was a followup from a Ukraine negotiator saying that was more the Russian side of things, so I’d maintain skepticism.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 23:33 (two years ago) link

What does this mean? the language?

Yes, language laws that force teaching, publishing, retail, government business, etc to use Ukrainian have been a point of contention for a while.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210401-new-law-stokes-ukraine-language-tensions

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Wednesday, 16 March 2022 23:37 (two years ago) link

This is probably what Putin is aiming for on the language question: https://iwpr.net/global-voices/belaruss-fading-mother-tongue

Zelda Zonk, Wednesday, 16 March 2022 23:53 (two years ago) link

This is an interesting read.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/stephen-kotkin-putin-russia-ukraine-stalin?utm_source=pocket-newtab

earlnash, Thursday, 17 March 2022 01:29 (two years ago) link

The fuck. (Look this guy up if you haven't heard about him, 'piece of work' is an understatement.)

Former state Rep. Matt Shea, who left the Legislature after being accused of domestic terrorism, is in Poland with a group of 62 Ukrainian children.
Locals and international agencies are concerned about his intentions.https://t.co/TSK8JgjkBa

— David Gutman (@davidlgutman) March 16, 2022

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 March 2022 02:23 (two years ago) link

Grain of salt, but

Holy crap. https://t.co/83uA0im6l0 pic.twitter.com/I4Wb76OvBP

— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) March 17, 2022

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 March 2022 10:30 (two years ago) link

xpost Doesn't necessarily belong on this thread, but holy crap.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 March 2022 10:36 (two years ago) link

numbers around how many Russian soldiers have been killed appear to be between 400 and 11,000 depending on the sources.

Ste, Thursday, 17 March 2022 11:05 (two years ago) link

My guess is 7,000 is close to the truth, around 2,500 combat deaths and the rest from normal RU army hazing

very interesting piece by (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 17 March 2022 12:09 (two years ago) link

Russian militaries have a pretty high tolerance for deaths (source: history from the last several centuries)

imagine flagons (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 17 March 2022 12:42 (two years ago) link

Plane trackers going crazy this morning

Exodus of Russian Special Flight Squadron planes from #Moscow, all flying towards east #UkraineRussiaWar pic.twitter.com/pQgSMCpJGG

— MilitaryLand.net (@Militarylandnet) March 17, 2022



A large exodus of private jets out of Moscow towards Dubai this morning too. pic.twitter.com/pJzXPtyQOu

— Oliver Alexander (@OAlexanderDK) March 17, 2022



Lavrov was halfway to Beijing last night when his plane turned around abruptly and returned to Moscow ⁦@BILD⁩ reports. Unclear if Putin called him back or Chinese side got cold feet https://t.co/f9cCJBVSfY

— Noah Barkin (@noahbarkin) March 17, 2022

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 March 2022 12:43 (two years ago) link

What does any of that imply?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 March 2022 12:58 (two years ago) link

Who knows? But sure seems like a lot of people with means are leaving in a hurry.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 March 2022 13:35 (two years ago) link

Schwarzenegger is a uniquely talented communicator. pic.twitter.com/TPTUPaa2Xb

— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) March 17, 2022

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 March 2022 13:53 (two years ago) link

Meantime (the thread notes some confusing back and forth but currently concludes as showing he's been at least fired).

Three independent sources report that the deputy chief of Russia's Rosgvardia (a unit of RU's interior army which has had tremendous losses in Ukraine), Gen. Roman Gavrilov has been detained by FSB. Gavrilov had also previously worked in FSO, Putin's security service.

— Christo Grozev (@christogrozev) March 17, 2022

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 March 2022 15:32 (two years ago) link

"Been at least fired" is an extra dreadful phrase to hear in the context of Russia.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 March 2022 15:41 (two years ago) link

The Ukrainian military have released some pictures of the Ukrainian Army commander in chief visiting the forces outside of Kyiv. They supply a location tag at the end. If right; the Russian Army has been pushed back in the last few days and Kyiv is a long way from surrounded https://t.co/MAAvuaKSrb

— Phillips P. OBrien (@PhillipsPOBrien) March 17, 2022

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 March 2022 15:54 (two years ago) link

That Arnold S video is a great example of using your power/influence in a positive way.

Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 17 March 2022 15:55 (two years ago) link


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