ok what the fuck is happening in ukraine

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Also, a bit rich

To lighten the mood in the studio, the host resorted to one of the favorite pastimes of many Kremlin propagandists: playing yet another Fox News clip of Tucker Carlson and his frequent guest Ret. Col. Doug Macgregor. In the translated video, Macgregor predicted Russia’s easy military victories over Ukraine and its total invincibility to western sanctions. Soloviev sighed and smiled: “He’s a lot more optimistic than my previous experts in the studio.”

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 March 2022 16:34 (two years ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/TX84ZoV.jpg

As usual, they didn't take into account the opinion of the Ukrainian Tractor Babushka Strike Force

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 16:52 (two years ago) link

For those looking to relax a bit, here is some light reading and very, very sexy pictures of tractors. Looking forward to the OnlyFans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Tractor_Plant

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 16:53 (two years ago) link

Idiot warmongering

Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) on not to providing Polish fighter jets to Ukraine: "It seems to me that Vladimir Putin simply deterred the U.S. government from providing these aircraft by saying they would view this as escalatory." pic.twitter.com/lC1QrczJ3H

— CSPAN (@cspan) March 10, 2022



“He’s going to go all the way to the west coast”

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 10 March 2022 17:09 (two years ago) link

Even Kremlin TV Admits Ukraine Disaster Has Putin in Trouble

Dag, when you've lost the state sanctioned propaganda channel that you control and run ...

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 March 2022 17:17 (two years ago) link

Wow @ that talk show summary!

covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 10 March 2022 17:17 (two years ago) link

This apocalyptic scenario is based on the script written by the Americans. They benefit through us dragging out the military operation.

Ehhh, not sure about this part

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 10 March 2022 17:31 (two years ago) link

If it allows the war to end sooner and gives the Russians a path to their full withdrawal from Ukraine while saving face, I'd be happy to let them blame it all on the US.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 10 March 2022 17:39 (two years ago) link

This morning on US cable news networks: drone footage, apparently, from outskirts of Kyiv, showing Russian tank formations in flames, gutted. Mayor quoted: city now half empty, but Russians still consider it the great prize.

Also, The EU leaders meet in Versailles outside Paris for a two-day summit starting Thursday and will be working on ways to “phase out our dependency on Russian gas, oil and coal imports,” said a draft of the summit declaration seen by The Associated Press.

The European Commission unveiled proposals Tuesday to make that happen, including diversifying natural gas supplies and speeding up renewable energy development. The EU’s executive arm said its measures “can reduce EU demand for Russian gas by two-thirds before the end of the year.”

...Besides ramping up renewables, the EU’s commission said Europe could diversify its energy supply by purchasing more liquefied natural gas brought by ship instead of through pipelines from Russia and by getting more pipeline imports from non-Russian suppliers. Those could include Norway and Azerbaijan.

Larger volumes of biomethane from organic sources such as agricultural waste and production of hydrogen for fuel cells could contribute, too.

The EU commission also said it would seek legislation to require that underground gas reserves be filled to at least 90% by the start of the winter heating season. Failure to do that this year led to extremely high gas prices.

The commission said it also was looking at more measures to help consumers, such as temporary limits to electricity prices.

Execution of much of the EU’s plan rests with national governments that all have different energy mixes and levels of vulnerability to a gas embargo or cutoff. Germany, Italy and several Eastern European EU members are most dependent.

Europe’s pipeline system is not set up so that shipments of liquefied gas can easily reach all corners of the continent. While liquefied gas shipments have increased, energy analysts say a total cutoff of Russian gas could only be overcome by forced reduction in gas use, first by industrial users.
from https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-paris-european-union-f48482d9cc49497c186f85f556181322

dow, Thursday, 10 March 2022 17:41 (two years ago) link

Sure it's shaped for propaganda...but it is interesting.

An interesting and notable change in the last day in public communications by Zelensky and the Ukrainian Defense Secretary. There is talk of victory in a more imminent sense. https://t.co/ibYGK7TL3W

— Phillips P. OBrien (@PhillipsPOBrien) March 10, 2022

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 March 2022 17:47 (two years ago) link

A clear sense of confidence, indeed a taunting of the Russians. https://t.co/g09r3J471o

— Phillips P. OBrien (@PhillipsPOBrien) March 10, 2022

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 March 2022 17:50 (two years ago) link

Last night on BBC, an American, former Defense Dept. consultant, saying that Russians may create a false flag attack with chemical or biological weapons, to justify their own use in Ukraine (they used them in Syria). Now Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov, along with denying invasion, is saying that the US is manufacturing biological weapons there, although don't think he's mentioned xp Dr. Fauci yet.

dow, Thursday, 10 March 2022 17:52 (two years ago) link

One of the few upsides to this catastrophe is that hopefully people will get used to the idea of collectively 'sacrificing' in order to achieve a greater good. As creepy as that sounds, we're entering a century of climate change and possible political upheaval that we haven't really had since the 1600's at the apex of "the Little Ice Age."

https://www.amazon.com/Global-Crisis-Climate-Catastrophe-Seventeenth/dp/0300153236

(Parker's theses have been challenged but this remains a good introduction)

In short, we can't continue to rely on, or hope for, unlimited gas and oil, low energy prices, unlimited consumer goods and low prices, and so on and so forth. It's not just "unsustainable" in an abstract sense. The "business as usual" approach will either kill us through famines/droughts/extreme weather, or contribute to worldwide political instability that will finish the job.

From this standpoint, it's not a coincidence that Russia is one of the few countries openly slavering for more global warming (to exploit its northern energy deposits and the Arctic overall). Nor is it by chance that one of the world's foremost oil and gas exporters has started a war of choice with Ukraine, where just a decade ago large deposits of shale were discovered on its territory, and large deposits of natural gas in the Black Sea (many of them in territorial waters around Crimea).

We should have spent the last twenty years pouring billions upon billions into renewable energy; it is both the moral and the strategically sound thing to do. I know most of you probably agree, but we're still living in a world where conservative media blames Greta Thunberg's climate activism for the Ukraine war.

Do we really need a new vcr, dvd player, blue ray player, 4k tv, 8k tv, every couple years? $1,000 iPhones? I love my games and shows as much as anyone but if "sacrifice" means chilling out about buying new tech every year, it doesn't seem as bad as turning the world into Mad Max so we can stream the new Marvel movie on our internet-connected refrigerator.

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 17:59 (two years ago) link

Reminds me:
LONDON/WASHINGTON, March 3 (Reuters) - Countries of the Arctic Council said on Thursday they would boycott future talks in Russia over its Ukraine invasion, throwing international cooperation in the region into upheaval at a time when climate change is opening it up to resource exploitation.

The Arctic Council brings together countries with Arctic territories to collaborate on matters that affect the region's residents. It does not deal with security issues.
Russia, which currently holds the council's rotating chairmanship, has posed "grave impediments to international cooperation, including in the Arctic," the council's other seven member countries said in a statement.
... it was unclear whether the United States and other council members see Russia as part of the group's work going forward. Russia accounts for 50% of Arctic landmass.

Unless challenged, Russia, which calls its actions in Ukraine a "special operation," would hold the Arctic Council chairmanship until 2023.
...Russia also currently holds the chairmanship of the Arctic Coast Guard Forum, a group dedicated to ensuring safe, secure and environmentally responsible movement through Arctic waters.

The Russian Coast Guard and the U.S. Coast Guard did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
from https://www.reuters.com/world/arctic-council-countries-halt-meetings-over-russias-invasion-ukraine-2022-03-03/

dow, Thursday, 10 March 2022 18:17 (two years ago) link

I consider American car companies' late 90's/early 2000s reclassification of SUV's into "light trucks" in order to evade MPG standards as one of the most devastating self-owns in recent history.

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 18:27 (two years ago) link

I mean yeah that’s what’s so frustrating about the climate change debate, it’s not a choice between clean and dirty energy it’s “do you pay for this now or pay 10x more later plus suffer a hundred other consequences” - or sucks that few US politicians outside of Bernie phrase it this way (well, some do now, but hammering that message would’ve been nice 15 years ago)

frogbs, Thursday, 10 March 2022 18:34 (two years ago) link

re: Mariupol maternity ward bombing, Russian embassy has a remarkable response. No shame.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/e0107364bdf2dda725a692db149e4d9a6772449d/0_0_1136_1091/master/1136.jpg?width=620&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=ae8ef8d3f76322165cb397fd27b3f9ee

Actual tweet has since been removed by Twitter.

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 18:43 (two years ago) link

If you don't believe that story, they've got you covered with another one:

This is how the Russian Embassy in London has responded to the bombing of the maternity hospital in Mariupol. Utterly obscene. pic.twitter.com/l4Udc1SmM0

— Carole Cadwalladr (@carolecadwalla) March 10, 2022

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 18:45 (two years ago) link

Busing in injured pregnant women to make it look like a maternity hospital was used as a maternity hospital, sounds likely

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 10 March 2022 18:46 (two years ago) link

Idiots at BBC thinking oooh we should get her on.

nashwan, Thursday, 10 March 2022 19:10 (two years ago) link

Little girl singing "Let it go" in a shelter#UkraineRussianWar #Ukraine #UkraineUnderAttack pic.twitter.com/GodURBfmuz

— Ukraine (@Gadhwara27) March 6, 2022

Propaganda is as propaganda does, but Ukraine isn't winning the propaganda war in the West due to some clever 'wag the dog' production team behind the scenes. There are some things you just can't fake.

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 19:11 (two years ago) link

My older one used to sing that all the time, I probably can't watch it without bawling

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 10 March 2022 19:24 (two years ago) link

Rats leave the ship first.

FSB people are actively selling apartments in the Crimea.

Number of new apartments for sale in the last few days. Mostly families of the FSB and the occupation administration. pic.twitter.com/eB66DbJLxC

— Liubov Tsybulska (@TsybulskaLiubov) March 10, 2022

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 19:55 (two years ago) link

Seen that but also some questions about sourcing.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 March 2022 19:59 (two years ago) link

That seems really unlikely to me - what's the rationale? They think Ukraine is going to retake Crimea? The climate there is turning more anti-Russian?

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 10 March 2022 20:07 (two years ago) link

I really can't say and I'm surprised it's happening at all. To my knowledge there was no immediate threat of Ukrainian forces going to Crimea, despite the two countries being at war and all that.

A more likely explanation is that they're trying to sell their property so they can leave the country. Their FSB status makes it (possibly?) easier for them to do so, so they're getting all the money they can together and planning to decamp to Turkey, Transnistria, wherever.

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 20:24 (two years ago) link

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/8/we-are-refugees-russians-flee-rising-authoritarianism

"Those wishing to leave from the European side of the country are crossing the land border to Finland or the Baltic states (Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania). Those who do not have European visas head to Georgia, Armenia and Turkey, where a Russian dissident community is growing."

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 20:27 (two years ago) link

https://www.ft.com/content/a8b53d7a-08c5-484e-9dc6-cd4b2d889e3f

"With almost all European airspace closed to Russian aircraft, flights to Tel Aviv, Istanbul, Yerevan, Baku and Tbilisi have been sold out for days, while other travelers have packed on to buses to the Baltic states."

"Georgia’s economy minister said on Monday that as many as 25,000 Russians had arrived in the country in the past few days, according to local media outlet Sova. Vahe Hakobyan, chair of the Armenian parliament’s economic affairs committee, said this week that about 6,000 Russian and Ukrainian citizens were arriving in the country every day."

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 20:29 (two years ago) link

Anyway, avocados

Let's discuss Russian economy. Many underestimate its dependency upon technological import. Russia's so deeply integrated into Western technological chains that severing these ties will lead to its collapse. Sanctions are already effective and can be made even more efficient🧵 pic.twitter.com/gKUZ665ePm

— Kamil Galeev (@kamilkazani) March 9, 2022

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 March 2022 20:35 (two years ago) link

How does this make any sense?

Russia has hit back at western sanctions for invading Ukraine by imposing export bans on a string of products until the end of 2022.

The ban covers exports of telecoms, medical, vehicle, agricultural, and electrical equipment, as well as some forestry products such as timber.

The economy ministry said further measures could include restricting foreign ships from Russian ports.

It said: "These measures are a logical response to those imposed on Russia."

So ikea won't get birch for the nightstands? I don't get it

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 10 March 2022 20:58 (two years ago) link

Last burgers in Moscow’s flagship McDonald's. Asked one man as he was leaving for his thoughts and he said "I only ever use the toilets." pic.twitter.com/Bn8XYfbaP0

— Marc Bennetts (@marcbennetts1) March 9, 2022

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 10 March 2022 21:13 (two years ago) link

they had some piece this morning interviewing Russian people at McDonald and a few were saying how sad they were about no more bigmacs which made me want to puke

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 10 March 2022 21:20 (two years ago) link

hey send them big macs, blue jeans and rock'n'roll and they'll all be capitalists in a year!

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Thursday, 10 March 2022 21:25 (two years ago) link

Have watched CNN the past few days, and boy does Jake Tapper want a no-fly zone aka shooting war involving nuclear powers.

Sam Weller, Thursday, 10 March 2022 21:26 (two years ago) link

One thing I'll say about a no-fly-zone without trying to sound like Buck Turgidson:

There's this constant worry that no matter what America/Europe does, they are "escalating" and "forcing Putin" to: carry out intimidating military maneuvers, quarter troops in another country (Belarus), invade Ukraine, bomb cities, do war crimes, etc etc.

Meanwhile the Russian army has now conducted two attacks on nuclear power plants in Ukraine with seemingly no worries of escalation. Moreover, they appear to be settling into their usual pattern of pulling up artillery and hammering cities into the ground like Grozny in the 90s and Aleppo in the 2010s. If these 'escalations' are driven by any moves on the part of the West, I'm not sure what those are. Mining civilian evacuation routes with impunity and shooting at individual cars trying to get out of cities does not seem to be a high-risk low reward tactic in their mind.

But the idea remains that whether it's sanctions, or transferring planes to Ukraine, or just sending weapons, or foreign fighters, will "inflame tensions" and "make Putin do something terrible." He's going to do something terrible no matter what, is the more likely scenario. The real questions is what that will look like and when it will come.

I'm not going to argue for a no-fly-zone because I also appreciate living, but nevertheless it's worth considering exactly which Western actions, and in what way, are actually "escalating" anything. A more likely source of escalation seems to be frustration felt at missing out on a splendid little 3-day war and the 'birth of a new world' from that article about the "Ukrainian question" that was published too soon. Now that Putin has invested the Russian army and is still a ways from pulling back or conceding anything, he seems to be stuck on a one-way track of escalation or continuing the indiscriminate bombing and war crimes he's been doing already. Neither will endear him to the West or encourage retreat when it comes to sanctioning Russia and sending aid to Ukraine. There is no way back for Putin that doesn't entail humiliation, admitting you were wrong, or ceding territory to Ukraine. Hard to imagine him doing any of these things.

The crackdown on most independent media and the ginned-up "Z" events in Russia also stink of a kind of cultural escalation of this conflict. It's telling that instead of promoting a brilliant upcoming victory, the new motto is "we won't leave ours behind."

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 21:41 (two years ago) link

FWIW, I think there might be a strategic benefit to having Biden himself say there's not going to be escalation while having others push for it. You don't want Putin to think it's completely out of the question if things go far enough.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 10 March 2022 21:50 (two years ago) link

"Send these MiGs...Enough talk. People are dying. Send them the plans that they need."

Sen. Romney on Putin: "It's time for him to fear what we might do."

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 10 March 2022 21:55 (two years ago) link

If I was a 'rational actor' in the Kremlin, this is the kind of 'escalation' that would concern me more than a failed war on foreign territory:

⚡️#Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida, during a debate in the country's parliament, called the southern part of the Kuril Islands Japanese "original territories". pic.twitter.com/N7hkqvFjSj

— NEXTA (@nexta_tv) March 7, 2022

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 21:58 (two years ago) link

that's wild. I hadn't seen that

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 10 March 2022 22:01 (two years ago) link

Ukrainian soldier has a message for all states that have territorial claims to the Russian Federation.

Ukraine is tying down most of the Russian Army right now and Russia showed that annexations are possible.

Moldova, Georgia, Japan and China can all take back what is theirs. pic.twitter.com/0d8QgAhYwK

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) March 1, 2022

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 22:03 (two years ago) link

Sen. Romney on Putin: "It's time for him to fear what we might do."

Japanese Prime Minister... called the southern part of the Kuril Islands Japanese "original territories".

Moldova, Georgia, Japan and China can all take back what is theirs.

Hey fellas! Looks like there's a war on! What a swell opportunity for a bit of fun. Let's enlarge the war and see what happens!

The supply of such imbecility will never fail, like a miraculous artesian spring of stupidity.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 10 March 2022 22:28 (two years ago) link

I'm not sure Japan is in any position militarily to be reclaiming ancestral islands

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 10 March 2022 22:29 (two years ago) link

Meanwhile, in Belarus: a study in contrast.

https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/03/07/defections-and-resignations-in-belarusian-military-prevented-country-from-joining-ukraine-invasion/

https://voxeurop.eu/en/i-do-not-know-of-a-single-belarusian-who-supports-the-invasion-of-ukraine/

In #Ukraine, Belarusians have created a separate battalion named after Kastus Kalinouski to defend Kyiv. According to them, more than 200 Belarusians have joined the territorial defense of Ukraine, another 300 intend to go to Ukraine. #Belarus pic.twitter.com/9PUxvcjXd9

— Hanna Liubakova (@HannaLiubakova) March 9, 2022

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 22:31 (two years ago) link

Aimless, I think you overestimate the influence that a Ukrainian soldier shitposting has on international affairs. The more likely outcome is less of a coordinated series of land grabs, but the increasing realization in the Russian government itself that they've overcommitted themselves to a failed imperial project while being surrounded by former Soviet republics in which they themselves set up a series of 'separatist' states.

You don't get Transnistria, Ossetia, Abkhazia, and Donbas just by accident.* But you could certainly go a long way toward losing them.

Not to mention the until-recently frozen conflict between Armenia and Azerbajan over Artsakh/Nagorno Karabakh, where Russia has been accused of sabotaging negotiations more than once; or the fact that the USSR and Japan never signed a peace treaty, leaving the status of the Kurile islands as de-facto, but not de-jure Russian territory.

MoominTrollin, Thursday, 10 March 2022 22:37 (two years ago) link

I think you overestimate the influence that a Ukrainian soldier shitposting has on international affairs.

Nope. I was just pointing at three posts made just prior to mine which all contained stupid militaristic and jingoistic sentiments, but which no one else was calling out for their stupidity. It seemed to me worth noting that anyone even hinting at the desirability of a wider war is an idiot. One of them was a US Senator and another a Japanese Prime Minister, and only one was a shitposting Ukrainian nobody.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Friday, 11 March 2022 00:02 (two years ago) link

slightly off topic but my former employer (who are like legalzoom but not legalzoom) posted on linkedin that they were no longer doing business in russia or belarus due to the invasion, but they didn't actually do any business in either country anyway; payment processors already cut people off in those regions; mayyyybe they had some EU or US people residing in those places that used their services for legal documents in the EU and US but I would guess they had no more than maybe a dozen such people. So this risks the company....nothing, but they went out of their way to post it on linkedin anyway for accolades. Fuck, give money to a verified aid organization. Hire ukrainian refugees. Do anything but this hollow virtue signaling. I called them out for it, I'm sure I'll get a nasty note from someone.

Fuck them, if they wanted to do something impactful, stop doing business in Florida, Texas, and other places that are passing anti LGBTQ+ laws. But they won't do that because it would actually impact revenue.

akm, Friday, 11 March 2022 00:35 (two years ago) link

xpost @Aimless

Sorry, I didn't get your meaning entirely. You're right, the two government officials don't really have an excuse to say things like that. Maybe one could make a case that Romney is playing bad cop to Biden's good cop, but it wouldn't be a very good case and anyway, Lindsey Graham is already Russia-famous for his bold opinions about regime change via bullet.

MoominTrollin, Friday, 11 March 2022 01:04 (two years ago) link

I thought this was pretty good

We should also borrow the best, most humane parts of America and Europe’s Cold War playbook. During the 20th century, the West operated—essentially—what amounted to an open border policy for dissidents fleeing the Eastern bloc. If the West is serious about undermining Putin’s Russia, it should consider dropping its visa regimes or COVID rules that do not recognize the Sputnik vaccine for international travel, and allow refugees from Russia and societies occupied or under attack by the Kremlin to claim asylum. Instead of walling off Russians behind visa and propaganda walls, the West should consider sponsoring Russian universities and media in exile to keep its free thinking alive.

DJI, Friday, 11 March 2022 01:26 (two years ago) link

Moomin, was actually wondering: how did Russians take the Lindsay Graham statement? Was it like a head smacking, what a stupid asshole kind of moment? Did it raise concerns the US might actually be considering that?

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 11 March 2022 01:37 (two years ago) link


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