ok what the fuck is happening in ukraine

Another sort of nuclear threshold has already been crossed, in firing on the largest nuclear power plant in Europe. *Seems* like they targeted the perimeter, just enough to set the precedent, and leave us wondering how much further they might go. As engineers and others have pointed out, if they really wanted to shut down the grid, there are much handier ways. Also has been pointed out that shutting down the grid would disrupt their own operations in Ukraine, maybe especially communications. But meanwhile, firing on the plant sends a message.

Oh and I'd been assuming that, even w puppets in place, there may be an insurgency armed by US and maybe NATO, as in Soviet-era Afghanistan and later there (of course the former incl. incl. help from Al-Q), though of course there are so many scenarios being replayed in Ukrainesplaining

But firing on the plant, that's a new wrinkle, I think---?

How can we expect the Tory party to wean Britain off Russian wealth and power, when they got us hooked in the first place?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/06/oligarch-money-is-embedded-in-london-beware-the-big-talk-of-a-crackdown?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1646582176

The U.S. remains in discussions with Poland to potentially backfill their fleet of fighter planes if Warsaw decides to transfer its used MiG-29s to Ukraine, four U.S. officials tell POLITICO.https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/05/white-house-deal-fighter-jets-ukraine-00014424

This makes pretty good sense. Seems like MiG-29s wouldn't have a bright future in a NATO force anyway, unless all the necessary parts for them can be obtained outside of Russian-controlled sources.

I wouldn't mind if this thread could take a breather on manifesting nuclear armageddon

otm

Shits definitely been keeping me up at night but the idea that Putin is just looking for an excuse to nuke the West is insane. Much less that he would be able to get the four people he needs to carry out the strike knowing it would result in Russia being turned to dust within minutes. And yet I’m still kinda terrified given how sloppy both Russia and the US have been handling things. But if Putins plan was to threaten nukes until he gets what he wants, why try this invasion in the first place?

99.9% chance nuclear war doesn't happen because of this and 100% chance that nobody here can do anything about it anyway so I don't know why ppl worry themselves sick over it

I think we’re taking a break from such thoughts here

Realistically I think it’s that the events of the last 5 years has made a lot of us feel we’re living in the end times so I get why everyone is so nervous

Yeah---though nowadays, nuke-wise, I'm mainly trying to keep up with what's happening at that plant:
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) expressed “grave concern” at the situation at the six-reactor plant, the largest in Europe. The agency was told by the Ukrainian nuclear regulator that “any action of plant management – including measures related to the technical operation of the six reactor units – requires prior approval by the Russian commander”.

The IAEA director general, Rafael Mariano Grossi, said on Sunday that the Russian military command over the nuclear plant “contravenes one of the seven indispensable pillars of nuclear safety and security” ...The IAEA also expressed concern that the Russian occupying force had reportedly shut down mobile phone networks and the internet connection “so that reliable information from the site cannot be obtained through the normal channels of communication”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/06/ukraine-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-plant-staff-under-russian-orders

I've not noticed much nervousness... outside of this thread.

i'm not an electrical engineer, but i would think there would be a lot of rebuilding involved, but it would not take out the entire country's power grid. it's more localized, from my understanding. but it also depends how the ukraine power grids were built

how much collateral damage and lives the EMP takes with it are other factors. both would definitely be substantial. i haven't read too much about this but my understanding is that russia has advanced fighter and fighter bombs, but very few of them and their air force doesn't have a lot of experience mounting complex air operations

it would seem like reconning ukrainian air space is possible, though, since apparently ukraine lacks scope and situational awareness in air space

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/rusi-defence-systems/russian-air-force-actually-incapable-complex-air-operations

― Punster McPunisher, Sunday, 6 March 2022 bookmarkflaglink

Fixed this for you.

100% chance that nobody here can do anything about it anyway so I don't know why ppl worry themselves sick over it

I believe lack of agency is precisely why people worry themselves sick over things.

it's this: https://newrepublic.com/article/165603/carlson-russia-ukraine-imperialism-nato

― StanM, Sunday, 6 March 2022 bookmarkflaglink

The Mearsheimer interview is pointing to US defence establishment thinking. To the US and China Ukraine is a piece in a game.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-soldiers-ukraine-cannon-fodder-governor/31739187.html

Looks like Z is the new swastika then:

Let's discuss what's happening in Russia. To put it simply, it's going full fascist. Authorities launched a propaganda campaign to gain popular support for their invasion of Ukraine and they're getting lots of it. You can see "Z" on these guys' clothes. What does it mean? 🧵 pic.twitter.com/F2zjcpJCDZ

— Kamil Galeev (@kamilkazani) March 6, 2022

shit

.

So Kharkiv is still free? I thought Russia had “control” of it a few days ago?!

― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, March 6, 2022 11:43 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

You might be thinking of Kherson?

Five of the best books about Russia and Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/mar/06/five-of-the-best-books-about-russia-and-ukraine

Looks like Z is the new swastika then:
According to a Russia scholar on the latest On The Media, the Putin line is that Zelensky is the Jewish frontman for Ukraine Nazis, who want to exterminate traditional Christians of Ukraine, incl. those of Russian descent. So these assholes may be ironically Z-branded, or supposed to actually be fanatical henchmen of the Z-man.

Putinist line, I should say: he hasn't gone quite that far in explaining, not on the record, apparently, but patriots spreading it online.

the Putin line is that Zelensky is the Jewish frontman for Ukraine Nazis

why would nazis want a jewish person to be their frontman?

Cognitive dissonance never matters

what percent of Russia supports this war? 80%? 20%? roughly the same % as we have Trump supporters here? how many will continue to support it once their checks bounce and their relatives keep coming home in caskets?

who knows. it's very hard for me to understand how this looks from a russian perspective. i feel like i must be missing some key context in how the putin regime is framing this to his people because from here it just looks like naked aggression.

I'm not sure the relevance or even the meaning of Russian "public opinion" in this case. First, how can you accurately measure it in a climate of fear? Second, we know it's not fully informed. I mean here in the US you had pretty widespread support for the Iraq war based on the official lines about it, and that's in a society where you actually could easily access alternative information and didn't literally risk your future if you protested.

xxpost Old school Russian appeal: vs. Jews *and* Nazis.
Supposedly over 4,000 Russian anti-war demonstrators have been detained, according to several sited, don't know if verified
(On The Media also mentions Western Evangelical admirers spreading it, though some w less emphasis on Zelensky personally and more on widespread Ukraine persecution of traditional Christians, since takeover by anti-Russians.)

several *sites*

(I guess idea is that Zelensky looks like this sad little Jewish puppydog, with Western wokeflake sympathy---perfect front for the fiends!)

is it a longstanding and popular belief in russia that ukraine shouldn't be a sovereign nation?

wokeflake

FP'd you for that

On CNN, ex-CIA official @StevenLHall1 says the Ukraine "war crimes" show "it's a mistake to call Russians Europeans. They don't share our values. I've had Russian intelligence officers tell me directly, 'We are not like you.' And what we're seeing right now... proves that point."

— Will Saletan (@saletan) March 7, 2022

I've had Russian intelligence officers tell me directly, 'We are not like you.'

All the evidence anyone should ever need. I mean, would they lie?

pretty funny from ex-CIA official

Europeans would so never

European history just nonstop sharing of values with the entire world

Another paywalled USA Today story, but here's something:

While Russia is committing war crimes in Ukraine they have shifted their tactics of propaganda to Spotify.
Must read by @Amanda_Florian with comments by me. It is insane how Russia weaponizes everything including playlists on Spotify like Bomb Kyiv https://t.co/8fRcsB3QaL

— Olga Lautman 🇺🇦 (@OlgaNYC1211) March 7, 2022

Is it okay to leave Spotify now, or would it still be censorship?

This Z thing...unless I'm missing something (could well be) it seems so Q-like in its vapidity part of me thinks the best approach is for Ukraine/Zelensky supporters to just start using it everywhere also, with the more obvious meaning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvS8IZQHc5U

All sorts of upheavals are coming if this keeps up.

The wheat price is up 65% in a week.

Oil is through $127 a barrel.

The effects on poverty and cost of living in this country will be enormous. People will starve in their homes.

And all the while millionaires and billionaires see their biggest wealth increase EVER in history. pic.twitter.com/NYGbXsOaQ5

— Gary Stevenson (@garyseconomics) March 7, 2022

starting to get the feeling every major leader is going to be fucked by this, a la the financial crisis of 2007/8

which is a massive incentive for every major leader to keep buying oil and gas from putin obv

Let's be hopeful.

Russia spokesman:

- Ukraine must amend its constitution, reject claims to enter any bloc i.e. NATO

- Must recognise Crimea as Russia as well as Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states.

Says if these conditions are met, Russia military action will stop in a moment.

— Moe (@moneyacademyKE) March 7, 2022

"Just give us...everything we want and this could all go away (for a while)."

Two persons close to the Russia-Ukraine negotiations (including back channel talks) tell me Russia proposed (1) Zelensky remains pro forma president but Russia appoints Boiko as PM, (2) Ukraine recognizes L/DNR and Crimea, (3) No NATO. Ze told them emphatically no.

— Christo Grozev (@christogrozev) March 7, 2022

ze answer is non