ok what the fuck is happening in ukraine

is your take that Russia should be allowed to invade

The problem there is the word "allowed." This is not something that anyone gets to "allow" or "disallow."

because our taking steps short of war to prevent this would entail the risk of Russia choosing to initiate a war against the NATO alliance

Steps that are even theoretically useful in combating expansionism - an actual transition away from fossil fuels depriving petrostates of their power, real attempts to seize hidden wealth globally - aren't on the table. "Arming Ukraine" and brinksmanship do absolutely nothing to save Ukrainian lives or make the world a better or more peaceful place - a new Cold War benefits only authoritarians at home and abroad, arms manufacturers/dealers and the security state while providing a useful pretext for the continuance and expansion of our own hollow, destructive empire. It's all theater to benefit the ghouls who've been making the world worse for 75 years already.

in other words, what ShariVari said

Ukrainians would very much like the US to have a say. This isn’t Iraq.

However, that’s for Zelenskiy to decide.

― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Friday, February 25, 2022 6:03 PM (thirty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

That's really all of it.

Strengthening sanctions, concrete defense assistance and an anti-war coalition have just been discussed with @POTUS. Grateful to 🇺🇸 for the strong support to 🇺🇦!

— Володимир Зеленський (@ZelenskyyUa) February 25, 2022

Zelenskyy the imperialist. Watch out Putin!

Anyway, it seems inevitable that the US and Western Europe are “doing something” so a generalized debate about interventionism, isolationism or whatever in between seems better for another thread and maybe we can just continue to update and discuss what is actually going on here instead?

Will do.

Where is "here"?

Meanwhile, thousands streaming (as fast as they can stream) into Poland and Romania. And they're not going home any time soon, let alone to a Russian controlled puppet state.

apparently a lot of men attempting to leave the country are being forcibly sent back to fight

Where is "here"?

― anatol_merklich, Friday, February 25, 2022 6:52 PM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Confusing syntax. I meant let’s try to keep this thread specific to the situation in Ukraine and not hash out extremely general ideological stuff in this thread.

aye, I see those implicit parentheses now, thanks for clarifying.

Ok I’m going to own up that I gave Calzino, a poster I like, an FP cause I thought he crossed a line to personal insults the other day rather than his usual righteous invective.

Now I see that his temp ban has led to this thread running rampant with idiocy and bad takes that I thought were only possible on Twitter by wannabe Brookings Institution foreign policy experts, I regret my FP profoundly.

I don’t.

take it to Admin Log, but Boring otm

wat is an wannabe brookings institution? care to elucidate?

xxp bad takes and posts "rampant with idiocy" are still better than hateful personal attacks, which are just childish

wat is an wannabe brookings institution? care to elucidate?

wat is an wannabe brookings institution? care to elucidate?

― anatol_merklich, Friday, February 25, 2022 8:24 PM (thirty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

It really just means that some of us are being unintelligent right wing warmongers for suggesting Ukraine can defend itself from invasion and that they have the right to join any alliance they want to. The key here is to relax and always remember that no internet tankie has ever had much influence on anything.

"The key here is to relax and always remember that no internet tankie has ever had much influence on anything."

why are you posting shit like this?

i think we're all aware that the right wing warmongers are the ones with the influence, yeah

feeling very relaxed, knowing that the folks with their hands on the levers of power have this all taken care of

"The key here is to relax and always remember that no internet tankie has ever had much influence on anything."

why are you posting shit like this?

― Dan S, Friday, February 25, 2022 6:30 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

I mean, you realize who you're asking, correct?

I don't endorse nor condemn, but!

For what it's worth, here's a perspective from some Ukrainian anarchists on the ground, and here is a statement from Russian Fed anarchists. I distrust pretty much all media equally, but some stuff that might prove interesting to some of you.

thanks for the links table

Just wish we could have a discussion without some people coming in just to insult others.

― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, February 23, 2022 2:32 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

fwiw, i insulted and then gave some links.

as it should be!

yes thanks for those links table, appreciated

Those links were fascinating, thanks Table.

sleeve & Boring otm

I look forward to reading it.

Saw that a member of the Duma called for an end to this nonsense. China hasn't exactly been supportive. Kazakhstan has reportedly rebuffed Russian calls to get involved. Wonder how long Putin can keep this up, or how he will maintain any gains.

Meanwhile:

@AP reporting tonight: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was asked to evacuate Kyiv at the behest of the U.S. government but turned down the offer. An American official tells me Zelenskyy said, “The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride.”

He's made of strong stuff.

xpost

Damn.

I believe that is what you call a "Chad"

It’s no “Nuts!” but it’s definitely up there

He needs a ride to carry his enormous balls around

Zelenskyy has come across very impressively. He's proven very good at standing up for himself and his country, especially given his total lack of political experience.

I highly recommend folks here check out Servant Of The People. Zelenskyy is great in it and its satire of political culture is far better than most of the b.s. important shows that air here.

The whole series is on YouTube now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ-3YwVQV0M

ty this looks p good

are we winning, lads

If Zelenskyy really does stay in Kyiv though, he's dead within a week. The Russians will take Kyiv even if it means committing the most horrendous war crimes.

That’s true, but if they kill him they will never get the fig leaf of legitimacy they want for a replacement government that is supposedly chosen by the Ukrainian people. They may do it anyway and then claim he fled. All dark to contemplate.

If they get the chance, which they will if he sticks around, they'll kill him.

I wonder what Putin's current popularity in Russia is tbh

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-is-crowdfunding-to-shore-up-defense-against-russian-military-2022-2

I don't think there's any precedent for a military doing crowdfunding? Insane times.

This is a good guy to follow anyway, but

End. This guy walked up to me and wanted to share a message with y’all. pic.twitter.com/4dFBd78mtr

— Terrell Jermaine Starr (@terrelljstarr) February 26, 2022

If accurate, this seems important:

Russia-Ukraine latest news: Turkey will block Russian warship access to Black Sea, says Zelenskiy, in blow to Putin https://t.co/eAkAlneo1o

— The Guardian (@guardian) February 26, 2022

New (to me) dimension of crowdwork platforms:
Russian military uses Premise microtasking platform to aim and calibrate fire during their invasion of Ukraine. Example tasks are to locate ports, medical facilities, bridges, explosion craters. Paying ¢0.25 to $3.25 a task. pic.twitter.com/kHTO2tSCUH

— Bogdan Kulynych 🇺🇦 (@hiddenmarkov) February 25, 2022

“Turkey hasn’t made a decision to close the straits to Russian ships yet,” a senior Turkish official tells me

So guess Zelensky was making a request with that tweet

— Ragıp Soylu (@ragipsoylu) February 26, 2022

Yeah, I figured it was some sort of miscommunication. But it is somewhat intriguing that Turkey hasn't decided yet.

I don't understand the rationale behind Putin sending conscripts already.

I presume the request for troops from Kazakstan was just a PR thing, but why sending conscripts who don't appear particularly reliable