That's a fair point. I still don't think anything itt warrants that level of aggression. But people seem to like that kind of discourse around here, or at least don't mind it so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 16 February 2022 23:13 (two years ago) link
It isn’t trusting one press over the other it’s just//again I must say “naive” to say that the western press is more trustworthy re:Ukraine than the other.
― Johnny Mathis der Maler (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 16 February 2022 23:17 (two years ago) link
I mean I’ll take the us press over the Russian press any day cause they have the funnies I like. But trusting themOn the Ukraine situation? Get real.
― Johnny Mathis der Maler (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 16 February 2022 23:18 (two years ago) link
Well, yeah.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 16 February 2022 23:23 (two years ago) link
Mary Worth has been insane lately.
Would read Russian Mary Worth for sure tho ftr.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 16 February 2022 23:23 (two years ago) link
i don’t particular give a fuck but as somebody who actually reads russian press on a daily basis - yes,i will take the us press over the russian press any fucking day
― scanner darkly, Thursday, 17 February 2022 01:41 (two years ago) link
fuck the American Press. fuck the Russian Press. look to the Turkish Get-Up for the best full body workout.
― Bixby in a Samsung I know it's Siri-esque (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 17 February 2022 01:43 (two years ago) link
i heard french press is pretty good
― scanner darkly, Thursday, 17 February 2022 01:46 (two years ago) link
The reportage can be a bit gritty.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 17 February 2022 01:51 (two years ago) link
Mary Worth has been insane lately.Would read Russian Mary Worth for sure tho ftr.
― Johnny Mathis der Maler (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 17 February 2022 01:52 (two years ago) link
Russian Calvin & Hobbes, Hobbes is a real tiger
― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 17 February 2022 01:57 (two years ago) link
The US strategy of providing information about coup plots, invasion dates and false flag attacks to the domestic press and not the Ukrainian government is, at least, very odd.
A relative who worked for the OSCE in Ukraine was telling me about the increasingly frantic messages from the State Department warning everyone to evacuate their families and then themselves. Completely different messaging from previous run ups where the rule was to not worry unless you see Russian tanks in the Maidan.
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 17 February 2022 02:30 (two years ago) link
what is the consensus view here about what is actually happening? Is it that this is a defensive move by Russia in response to overly aggressive NATO expansionism?
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Thursday, 17 February 2022 02:39 (two years ago) link
maybe i don't understand the big deal with them joining nato (aside from simply proximity to russia)
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 February 2022 02:49 (two years ago) link
It’s pretty clear that Ukraine is never joining NATO—but Putin wants that in writing, and Biden is unwilling to do that because it looks “weak.’
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Thursday, 17 February 2022 02:55 (two years ago) link
sowing discord between the US and France/Germany/Europe in general is a benefit to Putin
― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 17 February 2022 02:57 (two years ago) link
I know this is coming from the US press which are running dogs for the imperialist war machine, but it's hard to read this article without coming to the conclusion that Russia has some understandable grievances with the increasing US military presence in Eastern Europe, and reasons to be unhappy with the way the US unilaterally withdrew from the anti-ballistic missile treaty which was a cornerstone of nuclear detente:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/world/europe/poland-missile-base-russia-ukraine.html
― o. nate, Thursday, 17 February 2022 03:25 (two years ago) link
The best comparison I heard was that Ukraine joining NATO is the equivalent to the Russians of Russia putting missiles in Cuba.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 February 2022 06:21 (two years ago) link
is this not obvious
would this not be an obvious thing to consider within one second
― Ár an broc a mhic (darraghmac), Thursday, 17 February 2022 08:01 (two years ago) link
which was like the US putting missiles in Turkey which was like
― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 17 February 2022 08:03 (two years ago) link
JCOS working on a plan as we speak, though
https://www.denofgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/dr-strangelove-3.jpg
― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 17 February 2022 08:04 (two years ago) link
It's OK 'cos we're the good guys.
― since dozzell was a fixture (Tom D.), Thursday, 17 February 2022 09:17 (two years ago) link
yep I've just read an Anne Applebum piece in the Atlantic and can confirm that
― calzino, Thursday, 17 February 2022 09:55 (two years ago) link
Hmm is it safe to assess western media coverage as anything less than pure garbage without getting carpeted with F-bombs?
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 17 February 2022 10:43 (two years ago) link
For anyone still asking “what’s it all about?” — that Time article posted up thread had a lot of pertinent info that I hadn’t seen in other coverage. (I didn’t make it past the paywall on o. Nate’s NYT piece but the point about the treaty also stands out.)
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 17 February 2022 10:46 (two years ago) link
As a citizen of a Russia-bordering country, from a Russian-speaking household, having travelled in Ukraine, Moldova, Russia and Georgia, it is pretty fucking offensive reading people describing Russian positions as «sabre rattling», but perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised
― Mule, Thursday, 17 February 2022 10:50 (two years ago) link
Care to elaborate?
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 17 February 2022 10:57 (two years ago) link
Just people upthread being totally dismissive of the experience of having Russian aggression as a constant presence, because NATO or whatever.
― Mule, Thursday, 17 February 2022 11:13 (two years ago) link
It’s good to know there’s someone else with a passport, not great when poster Mule pops up to aggressively condescend as they occasionally do (recall them tone policing calzino in the unhappiness of ilx) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I’m not going to apologise for describing obvious dick waving as such; that doesn’t mean it’s not unnerving or upsetting for people in the area though!
― mardheamac (gyac), Thursday, 17 February 2022 11:19 (two years ago) link
xpostOh cheers. Feel free to f-bomb me cause I assumed based on the Russian-speaking that it might be the opposite. Full disclosure I did just read a Guardian article and a Russia Today article side by side and the RT article wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. Heavy use of scare quotes tho. (Also remarkably hard to find on Google at all now.)
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 17 February 2022 11:20 (two years ago) link
And gyac your perspective is appreciated too, I didn’t recognize the name. I do also have a passport for what’s it worth. Ask me about China (my mom is a Tibetan Buddhist and my ex was Tibetan so I may be less than 100% unbiased.)
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 17 February 2022 11:22 (two years ago) link
The unfortunate nature of china’s role in the world means they’re never going to get held to account ito what they’ve been doing in Tibet/Xinjiang, Russia to a lesser extent has a position of power because of its role shipping gas to Europe and its location. It takes a lot for a war to kick off because of these realities I guess, so Putin et al can really act as they like with impunity because what’s going to happen to them? And does Western Europe even care beyond keeping the gas on? And if there’s no danger of military pushback then Russia doesn’t have to do anything besides move some troops around and make some verbal threats, so yeah, that’s really my thinking on “sabre rattling”, that and the only people really going hard for war are the only people who always are, ie Atlantic Council shitheads and dopes like AA.
― mardheamac (gyac), Thursday, 17 February 2022 11:30 (two years ago) link
Jus «obvious dick waving», right. But whatever, gyac. We’ll never see eye to eye.
To be clear: had no issue with what you wrote, viborg
― Mule, Thursday, 17 February 2022 11:32 (two years ago) link
All this ^ has been covered thread and in more detail by others previously, if you’d like to talk more about your opinion then I’d be interested to read it.
― mardheamac (gyac), Thursday, 17 February 2022 11:34 (two years ago) link
*upthread
You’re on the mark obv. Off topic but I was in HK during the ‘siege’ of HK Polytechnic U. I stayed at Chunking Mansions which is on Nathan Rd quite near there. The protests were ongoing all around there. I took some interesting pics that I never posted online.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 17 February 2022 12:03 (two years ago) link
For anyone curious why someone might say that the state of journalism in Russia today is "not good", this piece from Deutsche Welle (the German public news organization) is a neat summary:
https://www.dw.com/en/critical-journalists-in-russia-fall-silent/a-60670100
Or I guess you could just google "Anna Politkovskaya".
― o. nate, Thursday, 17 February 2022 14:06 (two years ago) link
Who is arguing the state of Russian journalism is good?
― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Thursday, 17 February 2022 14:11 (two years ago) link
No one, but some are equating it to state of journalism in western democracies, or implying that the differences are insignificant.
― o. nate, Thursday, 17 February 2022 14:12 (two years ago) link
Another good article from DW, on how Russian media have been laying the groundwork for possible hostilities with Ukraine. Seems the goal is not to get average Russians to actually support war, very few do, but to at least blame the West if hostilities do break out:
https://www.dw.com/en/how-russian-media-outlets-are-preparing-an-attack-on-ukraine/a-60801837
― o. nate, Thursday, 17 February 2022 15:01 (two years ago) link
lol
Note to Readers: Updated PostMatt Taibbi Feb 17
In the wake of new developments on the Ukraine-Russia story, I updated “Another All-Time Media Faceplant” this morning.
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Thursday, 17 February 2022 16:26 (two years ago) link
― mardheamac (gyac), 17. februar 2022 12:34 (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
I don’t think my opinion is necessarily much different from what some have said upthread, really, or that I have any unique perspectives here. I agree with some of your analysis in the preceding post, particularly concerning Russia’s strategic upper hand. However, I disagree that Putin does not want or need «war» (although that may be different things), and I don’t read Russian positions as mere posturing (even notwithstanding that Russia have been fighting in Dombass for years). Crimea, Georgia, should be clear evidence that there is a willingness if considered necessary in order to reach strategic goals. Re Ukraine, strategic goals is more effectively secured through a level of territorial control over Ukraine (as NATO-guarantees regarding Ukrainian membership will clearly not be given), especially given that an attack will not be directly responded to by the US / NATO (regardless what the AC our AA may argue, thankfully).
In this light, «sabre rattling», «dick waving», seems off the mark and disrespectful in my view, but we don’t need to continue that discussion (I realise that I was the one picking the fight).
― Mule, Thursday, 17 February 2022 17:21 (two years ago) link
Psh, just like Putin.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 February 2022 17:29 (two years ago) link
amassing FPs at the border
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Thursday, 17 February 2022 17:34 (two years ago) link
#BREAKING In a document to the UN, Russia is formally accusing #Ukraine of "exterminating the civilian population" of two largely Russian-speaking regions. This is significant because US officials see accusations like this by Russia as a "pretext for war" on Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/KjCQSkJA6X— Majeed Gly (@MajeedGly) February 17, 2022
― (•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 17 February 2022 17:47 (two years ago) link
US propaganda machine going into overdrive to push peace-loving Russia into a war they never wanted
Blinken to the UN: "Russia plans to manufacture a pretext for its attack. This could be a violent event that Russia will blame on Ukraine or outrageous accusations that Russia will level against the Ukraine government. We don't know exactly the form it will take." pic.twitter.com/W5TQwzgP3q— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) February 17, 2022
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Thursday, 17 February 2022 20:31 (two years ago) link
I guess if anyone would know about that it would be America.
― mardheamac (gyac), Thursday, 17 February 2022 20:41 (two years ago) link
it's certainly a familiar situation, but I don't think the US holds a monopoly on ginning up reasons to invade countries
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Thursday, 17 February 2022 20:43 (two years ago) link
Putin has already described the situation as a 'genocide' of Russian-speakers, so there's that
― Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 17 February 2022 20:46 (two years ago) link
This thread would run a lot easier if people didn’t waste their time replying to claims nobody made.
― mardheamac (gyac), Thursday, 17 February 2022 20:47 (two years ago) link