ok what the fuck is happening in ukraine

As much as I’d love to blame the press, this seems to have been a deliberate strategy from the US government. Either they had credible information they didn’t share with the Ukrainian government for some reason or they’re flooding the airwaves with rubbish as some kind of unconventional deterrent.

How the media feels about being used in that way remains to be seen.

I don't trust the gov or the news to necessarily give me the truth, but ... there *were* close to a 100K Russian troops, tanks and whatnot that had amassed at the border, right? Why? Or was that all made up?

Sabre rattling

How the media feels about being used in that way remains to be seen.

― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Wednesday, February 16, 2022 4:58 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol after centuries of this i don't think it actually remains to be seen.

xpost Which I believe! But isn't saber rattling only effective if the audience believes there's a chance there's more than saber rattling?

the truth is so much more complicated than all of this

it's so simple to be look at something so huge and incomprehensible and complicated and stand 100% on one side of it and talk about it

only effective if the audience believes there's a chance there's more than saber rattling?

if Putin's saber rattling was a bluff, his bluff had instant credibility in light of the Crimea in 2014. But it needn't have been a bluff. Putin had the advantage of the initiative, and could safely afford to wait and assess the situation before deciding to pull the trigger or stand down.

Just saying, the idea that there was not a real and credible threat of invasion is kind of huh, not least in light of Crimea, whether or not it was imminent to the day. So to say that the US or the west or Europe or the media or whoever blew it out of proportion is kinda equally weird, especially because Putin could do it all again tomorrow, next week, next months, or whenever he feels. The childish North Korean "any attention is good attention" model.

I think KM is otm, I don't think anyone can say for 100% whether or not anything will actually come of this or not. Apparently there have been some seemingly credible reports of field hospitals popping up on the Russian side of the border.

Yeah, I heard some Russian reporter talking about how the west was getting it all wrong, and my first thought was "well, they might be wrong, but like I'd ever trust *you.*"

Crimea is different for the current situation for all the reasons discussed earlier itt. The relationship between Ukraine and Russia is difficult and involved and war would disrupt trade between the two significantly, even before you look at relations between Russia and other countries.

100%, 0%

all the way to the left, all the way to the right, 10,000 foot view, blue checks, internet sleuths, bold predictions, running away and saying nothing when you're wrong, screaming into the loudhorn when you're right

delete the parts where you're wrong, promote the squares where you're right

logging off when you know you should log off when you know they should log off when they tell you to log off when they know you're wrong and you know they're right

this shit goes around eternally, i want to barf 100% into a trash can and fill the entire thing up

u ok karl?

we're all drinking from a contaminated well

i'm ok! i listen, i do log off, sometimes.

i think i'm just getting sick of negative voices everywhere, inside my head i try to silence them, but then everywhere else, my friends, here, the news, my family, even my dog whining - the world is full of negative voices, always being right, always predicting with 100% confidence and backing it up when they turn out to right, always conspicuously absent when they're completely wrong. it has nothing to do with the other, all these things, but so much of it just boils down to never backing down and always being right and having the correct opinion and predicting the big thing that on else saw coming, or telling the story of the thing that happened in a way that made it inevitable and easily predictable, such a long time coming, doing that with the news but also doing that with life and relationships and minor things and huge things, divorces and death but also the most petty fucking shit you have ever heard of, doing all the time, in our own heads, leaking out in excrement in the form of words. that's what i mean by wanting to barf and fill up a trash can, it's just this gross build-up in our bodies and minds

this is usually the part where someone who knows it all tells me to stop drinking, and then i think "but the problem is that i'm sober right now"

anyway, back to the normal and uncomplicated question of ruso-ukraine politics, a subject in which all of us as well as tens of millions of people on the internet possess expertise and which everything is clear

Just saying, the idea that there was not a real and credible threat of invasion is kind of huh

Again, perhaps there was but, if so, there is a difference between a general ‘credible threat’ and the kind of specifics being set out. The US strategy of providing information about coup plots, invasion dates and false flag attacks to the domestic press and not the Ukrainian government is, at least, very odd.

lol after centuries of this i don't think it actually remains to be seen.

Probably true! I guess the difference with Iraq is that the press reports didn’t need months to be shown to be wrong. idk, when the press is facing historic levels of distrust, people are trying to argue a distinction between ‘the free press’ and state-sponsored media, etc, it will be interesting to see if there is any mild backlash.

fwiw, Karl, I am on team "by all means, keep drinking," because a bit of shock absorption may be precisely what is needed sometimes.

also I have no fucking clue what to do about Eastern Europe, or Eurasia as a whole - seems like a bigger mess than I can be expected to fix so I am not sure it reflects badly on me that I don't have a solution figured out yet

I'll still take US "free press", warts and all, over the Russian news media. In this case, I don't really know what else they could have done. Should they not have reported on the leaked intelligence reports? I think they were pretty upfront about the fact they had no way of independently verifying it.

That's why the news is always written as according to sources or The White House says or whatever.

when it comes to foreign policy the US media happily allows itself to be the conduit of government positions. because dissent has no harsh repercussions they are 'free' to dissent, which is a nice feature, but they rarely do.

wtf is going on? more of the same i guess

JUST IN: #Britain military intel chief says still no signs of #Russia|n pullback from #Ukraine's borders

“We have not seen evidence" per LtGen Sir Jim Hockenhull "Contrary to their claims, Russia continues to build up military capabilities near Ukraine"

— Jeff Seldin (@jseldin) February 16, 2022

British military intelligence. Pick the oxymoron out of that.

"I'll still take US "free press", warts and all, over the Russian news media"

I'm genuinely shocked by this admission, but perhaps there is a possibility they are both bad.

the statement you quoted said nothing about US "free press" being good, so I think the possibility they are both bad was inherent, it was even implied.

I hear that in Russia teachers can’t teach the truth about their country’s history. Good thing that doesn’t happen in America!

Why make value judgments at all? Things happen. They are neither good nor bad. They just are.

Dude are you like 16 or something

Lol, I wish.

"I'll still take US "free press", warts and all, over the Russian news media"

ok I'll quote this bit instead. you fucking tool

Anyways, like many of us, I fear that Putin's normally sociable and agreeable nature has been adversely affected by covid-related isolation.

Cool, another thread devolving into sniping and point-scoring. No wonder the activity levels seem to have fallen over a cliff in recent weeks.

I read that as, "these both suck, but I think I kinda prefer our shitty press to that other shitty press" and I don't get at all why that would be a controversial statement.

shut the fuck up

you wouldn't get it because it's a condition called American

It just comes across as horribly naïve in a post Iraq war world when the press obviously showed that they were not capable of uncovering the truth.

I don't get the aggressive tone. I never said I praised or trusted the American press, I just don't think it's quite as dire as the Russian press, yet.

anyone who still thinks a the western/US media being fed dubious bollox by the WH for weeks now, is still something more trustworthy than Solovyov or whatever, needs to think again imo.

xp

and shut the fuck up again dickhead!

Russian dash cam footage beats the New York Times for reportage, every time.

Why are we all pretending that we read the Russian press now?

Always a healthy sign of a thriving forum when the responses to a slightly differing take is "shut the fuck up" and "shut the fuck up again dickhead".

I'm sure it's bad and all but to give this order of preference like anyone here except maybe ShariVari has the slighest grasp of what the Russian media landscape is like feels pretty off to me.

That's a fair point. I still don't think anything itt warrants that level of aggression. But people seem to like that kind of discourse around here, or at least don't mind it so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It isn’t trusting one press over the other it’s just//again I must say “naive” to say that the western press is more trustworthy re:Ukraine than the other.

I mean I’ll take the us press over the Russian press any day cause they have the funnies I like. But trusting them
On the Ukraine situation? Get real.

Well, yeah.

Mary Worth has been insane lately.

Would read Russian Mary Worth for sure tho ftr.