Down With the Sickness: Canadian Politics 2022

Right. I'm just trying to get my head around how a Chamber of Commerce type or a moral traditionalist looks at that and thinks "OTM".

Meant to respond to this the other day...I don't think it's yet reached this point here--maybe I'm wrong--but in the States, as a zillion people before me have pointed out, the Chamber of Commerce and moral traditionalist Republicans who bowed to Trump were afraid of losing, of getting primaried, etc. If you're talking about office-seekers/holders, that is--or do you mean non-politicians?

Well both insofar as the office-seekers are presumably trying to appeal to voters.

not to get too trenchant on here or anything but I think chamber of commerce/moral traditionalist types have been supporting violence that serves their interests for a long long time

Usually on the side of the state, though, right? Or perhaps against regimes viewed as radical in other countries?

I guess I was thinking of things like the riots during reconstruction or the tulsa black wall street massacre. those are american examples but canada has a rich history of anti-immigrant rioting as well (ie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Oriental_riots_(Vancouver)

I think a lot of business interests have endorsed these kinds of attacks either tacitly or openly.

Ah, OK, yes. I do feel like supporting the use of force in a citizen uprising against the authority of the established government seems like a new one for conservatives - I thought this is the sort of thing conservatism was founded to oppose.

Michael Chong still seems to think so. Wonder how long he'll remain in this party:

The blockades in Ottawa and at the border must end.https://t.co/kgyJmzCaTe#cdnpoli

— Michael Chong 🇨🇦 (@MichaelChongMP) February 8, 2022

I do think that if the Cons try to go full GOP right now they’d be back down to 15-20% in the polls. If they can big-tent the PPC and the Harper-cons, though, they might not need the red Tory vote to gain power & keep shoving that Overton window rightward.

But if Trudeau could put aside his ego for a minute and step down as Lib leader before the next election - or even if he’s chucked on an ouster - we might be spared these goons a while longer.

I thought Libs are still ahead and Trudeau is still generally well-liked (though I've seen a poll saying Freeland is even better liked)? Most recent poll I saw: https://www.thestar.com/politics/2022/01/25/tories-gain-support-but-otoole-lags-trudeau-singh-as-best-choice-for-pm-poll.html

Why does he keep describing the pandemic as something that "sucks" btw?

I do feel like supporting the use of force in a citizen uprising against the authority of the established government seems like a new one for conservatives

I guess the conservative riots were targeted at racial groups that were perceived as threatening their privilege and economic interests, and in the case of reconstruction were tied to a government viewed as illegitimate.

I think many Canadian Chamber of Commerce-rs see the entire suite of pandemic rules and social programs as threats to capital and to their own power, ie ability to order workers around...and I think that's led to a lot of tacit and less tacit support of the convoys.

https://readpassage.com/p/the-trucker-convoy-is-not-a-workers-revolt/

Quiet!: https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/meet-the-21-year-old-woman-who-got-the-honking-to-stop-in-downtown-ottawa-1.5772637

props to her for not only filing the suit but coming forward like this, she probably knows by now these assholes are already and will continue to make her life a living hell

Yeah kind of hilarious that while everyone (including the police and city council) sat around asking "how tf is this legal?", it took a 21yo to actually bring that question to the courts.

Ambassador Bridge shut down: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/trucker-convoy-day-12-in-ottawa-as-local-transit-riders-call-for-action-protesters-paralyze-windsor-detroit-bridge

Most Canadians opposed to convoy: https://www.cp24.com/news/almost-2-3rds-of-canadians-oppose-trucker-convoy-protest-poll-suggests-1.5772347

Heard those poll numbers on the radio this morning. The one I really liked was, "Fifty-seven per cent thought the convoy was not about vaccine mandates but 'an opportunity for right-wing supremacist groups to rally and voice their frustrations about society.'"

It's like the old Mickey Rooney/Judy Garland films: "Let's get together and put on a grievance."

every time i think Jason Kenney can't be a more vile, slimy piece of shit, he slithers even lower

That’s his M.O.! “When they go low, we go lower.”

Did not know this:

Kenney has a personal tie to the issue, fighting in San Francisco in the 1980s to overturn a law extending hospital visitation rights to gay couples — a move aimed at preventing people from visiting their dying partners.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8606228/kenney-apologizes-covid-19-vaccine-comparison-aids/

A real charmer.

so canada doesn't have a national guard or anything like that to get these assholes to move on? is the city really being held hostage by a few hundred right wing dipshits?

i mean i suppose i should know this! but in america, they will send people to kill you if you sit in the park for too long so this is kinda unimaginable. if this was happening in jersey, it woulda gone waco already.

Army aren't been sent in and cops are being softly softly. These are decisions, obviously.

I think half of Canada would love a "just watch me" moment from Trudeau the younger here, but it would also probably be a boon to their cause, massively televised state repression would be quite the spectacle

In case you didn't get the "just watch me" reference, forks: https://www.cbc.ca/history/EPISCONTENTSE1EP16CH1PA4LE.html

Worth remembering that PET was dealing with kidnappers and murderers and even then only invoked the War Measures Act on the request of the Premier of Quebec. And it was probably still an overreaction. (I had thought most people agreed but then I saw some people basically calling for this on social media.)

Doug Ford, Premier of Ontario, has been pretty quiet about this. Ottawa is a little tricky since it's on the provincial borders and a good portion of the National Capital Region is in Quebec, also some land is under the jurisdiction of the National Capital Commission.

As mentioned on TVO's The Agenda, one fear may be the risk of explosions and fire if e.g. guns are fired around tanker trucks filled with diesel. Many tow truck drivers also seem to be siding with the occupiers. Obviously the police should have been more proactive when these people were arriving in the first place. Quebec City and Toronto seem to have nipped their convoy protests in the bud.

They are managing to progressively contain this thing. Horns have been greatly reduced. They're still blockading Kent St north of Somerset and I imagine are still camped out near the Rideau Centre.

Maybe this will turn out to be a model on how to resolve these things without deaths or serious injuries idk. I actually don't fault Trudeau too much. Refusing to negotiate or engage while avoiding an overreaction to what should have been mostly dealt with under traffic and noise laws seems like the right move to me.

ya, but now they're blocking highways and boarders crossings.

Oh yeah it's o_O that the international border blockades have been tolerated at all.

I think the winningest move here would have been to defuse and have actually backtracked on the mandate for truckers weeks ago, because it’s looking like a pretty stupid hill to die on right now. The mandate from the states makes it redundant even? I don’t think any of it was ever going to create the supply chain shortages these cranks are actually causing now though.

fwiw i think forks is wrong about how this would be different in the us (except for the windsor situation, because Economy)

I think the winningest move here would have been to defuse and have actually backtracked on the mandate for truckers weeks ago, because it’s looking like a pretty stupid hill to die on right now. The mandate from the states makes it redundant even? I don’t think any of it was ever going to create the supply chain shortages these cranks are actually causing now though.

Disagree here, even if just on the principle that this sort of action should not be rewarded; also don't think we should leave our ally to handle mandating and enforcing this unilaterally. (What would we do if Biden also backtracked?)

I agree that none of this should be rewarded. It’s more that some of the measures seemed somewhat counterproductive to begin with. The end of all mandates is obviously the end goal anyway, and since it seems like we are in the home stretch it seems colossally dumb to give those who have been fighting that success all along, a fomenting point and a way to take the credit for it all ending.

fwiw i think forks is wrong about how this would be different in the us (except for the windsor situation, because Economy)

― mookieproof, Thursday, February 10, 2022 10:32 AM (thirty-three minutes ago)

yep. Malheur was occupied for 5 weeks

Heard there were 5,000 layoffs from one company (think I heard that right) because of the blockades--surely going to win lots of public sympathy from that.

Some good bits on CNN and MSNBC (even the Freedom Caucus's Joe Scarborough):

CNN fact checks some of the false information spreading on social media about the Canadian trucker protest @ddale8 joins The Lead pic.twitter.com/fMss9aOWiW

— The Lead CNN (@TheLeadCNN) February 10, 2022

NOW - MSNBC host says Canada's trucker convoy is a "cult."pic.twitter.com/vOjZSLHZoE

— Disclose.tv (@disclosetv) January 31, 2022

It’s more that some of the measures seemed somewhat counterproductive to begin with. The end of all mandates is obviously the end goal anyway, and since it seems like we are in the home stretch it seems colossally dumb to give those who have been fighting that success all along, a fomenting point and a way to take the credit for it all ending.

I guess I don't really see the issue with a vaccine mandate at the border, although I haven't seen the studies on this one in particular. I need to get shots if I fly to some countries. Kids need to get shots. I want to see an end to lockdowns and, eventually, mask requirements.

Christ, these people are full of shit; https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-conservatives-call-for-an-end-to-all-blockades-after-first/

Didn't they just replace their leader over this?

frankly, it's almost reassuring the degree to which capital still controls them (compared to the GOP)

https://theline.substack.com/p/dispatch-from-the-ottawa-front-sloly

a friend of mine texted the group chat that link and i gave him shit (perhaps a bit too much) for linking to Jen Gerson's blog (i despise her) but either way, i hear Matt Gurney's not exactly a peach either

I’m not so savvy on the Canadian media landscape, so I’m not sure who’s bad and hated (besides the obvious: Rex Murphy ouch)

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/relax-doug-ford-will-be-fine/
https://readpassage.com/i-hope-jen-gerson-predicts-ill-go-broke-and-unloved/

Now I can feel part of things:

https://www.sarniathisweek.com/news/local-news/st-marys-expecting-convoy-style-protest-friday

I booked off work anyway because of expected bad weather. My wish would be that the entire town stays indoors while they throw their 45-minute tantrum.

from this morning:

CBC Radio Ottawa now reporting protest vehicles being sent to block the airport. MPs, including those who support the occupation, might not be heading home for the weekend. Not sure how many hotel rooms will be available this weekend. Perhaps downtown residents can take them in?

— Greg MacEachern (@gmacofglebe) February 10, 2022

While in my calmer moments I broadly agree with Coyne's assessment re how to respond to the occupation, I don't really know what he's talking about here - and I keep seeing this claim or versions of it:

the Liberals, the Prime Minister in particular, by using the vaccine mandate as a wedge issue, and vaccine refuseniks as objects of scorn;

When did he/they do this? How?

maybe making vaccine mandates an election issue? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58264006

he could have just passed his preferred federal vaccine policies instead of tying them to his re-election. not that this whole coyne critique matters much to me personally, but there has been some cynicism in Trudeau's approach.

I don't really see how seeking an electoral mandate for it made it a wedge issue, and even less how it showed scorn or condescension (the other critique I keep hearing) towards the unvaccinated. I certainly don't see how that is at all equivalent to "the Conservatives, their probable future leader in particular, by supporting and encouraging the lawlessness in Ottawa".

yeah I wouldn't say that at all of course. I haven't read the Coyne article, there's no equivalency in my mind. But Trudeau didn't need an election to pass any vaccine mandates, the election was called to avoid WE scrutiny.