The Havana Syndrome

much of the CIA's 20th century activity was aimed at increasing animosity against countries that most Americans already virulently feared and hated

if the report said it was definitely a foreign power ppl would say "of course theyd say that, the cia acts with total impunity to alter the course of world events", but when the report says the opposite its "of course theyd say that, they are total bumbling goons and are obviously very embarrassed."

Like not everything is a fourth dimension false flag psy-op. It’s possible they really think there was some sort of death ray giving them headaches cause they are dumb and paranoid that antifa is out to get them.

otm. and we all still get to think the cia is dumb and make fun of them! everybody wins.

I don't think that believing that they could pull this story off makes them any less dumb than believing it was actually true tbh

if the report said it was definitely a foreign power ppl would say "of course theyd say that, the cia acts with total impunity to alter the course of world events", but when the report says the opposite its "of course theyd say that, they are total bumbling goons and are obviously very embarrassed."

Well yeah, I'm not going to give a CIA report creedence no matter what its conclusions are, think that's pretty reasonable

except you have to shift your entire estimation of the cia depending on which conclusion you want to believe the opposite of(?), is my point

I was reading the timeline of a scholar who studies not national security, but the culture of the national security community and his conclusion is basically that they are really insulated from reality, subject to groupthink, not bright at all, and genuinely believe all protest or left wing movements are all in lock step and directed by central masterminds.

I mean, when the starting point is "the CIA are always bad intentioned liars" (which is, historically, not a bad starting position to take), it's easy enough to twist the narrative around this to be whatever you want it to be.

You don't, really - they float shit, some of it works, some of it doesn't. Just because an intelligence agency tries to influence public opinion doesn't mean there's some determinsitic guarantee that it'll work.

xpost

I mean "of course the CIA would say that" is the get out of jail free card for literally any discussion around this and, once laid, it's pointless to engage in any further nuanced conversation.

has the cia ever previously publicly called bullshit on their own psyops operation bc they sensed the public wasnt buying it?

fwiw my reaction to this isn't at all "of course the CIA would say that"; the fact that they'be backtracked is somewhat surprising to me

it's the conclusion "well this is proof that it must have been started in good faith" that I find hasty and unconvincing

I'm clearly in the minority and I really don't want to put myself in a position to get bullied by milo in yet another thread, all I'm saying is that I also think the CIA is full of shit but I maintain there is an interesting conversation to be had around why this did pick up steam as it did and how even the dumb, media driven narrative may have led to seemingly "real" symptoms for people.

I just think the whole story is somewhat fascinating from a sociological perspective without believing any group is out there aiming actual magic ray guns at the heads of diplomats. This just clearly is not the thread for getting into that, lest you be outed as a "CIA simp".

The 'you were saying it was a psyop!!! from the start' line doesn't really work either. As covered upthread many times, some people felt bad for some reason (crickets, ennui) and the natsec state (not just the CIA - State and the NSA and the usual crowd of DC hawks) immediately began treating and promoting it as an attack - that's not a psyop, that's institutional paranoia being used to further their goals (get money, foster hostility to 'enemies').

It’s a psychosomatic illness being used to promote the interests of the CIA and foreign policy hawks. As mass hysteria is wont to do, the more it’s promoted, the wider the phenomenon becomes. This we have 5G conspiracy nuts who are now being targeted by leave-behind GRU cells in Tucson.

Some people in Cuba had some vague symptoms - possibly crickets, possibly bad paint, possibly the knowledge of their eternal damnation wearing on their mind. It was immediately picked up as an attack on Americans by Cubans. Then by the Russians.

The new report requires no 'twisting of the narrative' for anyone suspicious of the hawks' motives in promoting this - and as above, some of them are still trying to make it happen.

we all know this thread is itself a cia psyop, seeded with double-agent assets secretly tasked with baiting posters into defending cia's good faith, its clear as day

I don’t care about wether it was in good faith but just arguing that these people are dumber than we usually give them credit for qua “manipulating public opinion” or whatever.

i'm bummed cuba/china/russia doesn't have a mind ray, which would be evidence of a great leap in understanding

Historically they've been quite successful at manipulating public opinion - the failure* here has more to do with the position America's imperial mandarins find themselves in these days.

The right now thinks they're agents of the deep state out to get Trump, the left has always correctly read them as pure evil, their only constituency is a narrow band of liberals (who like the CIA/FBI/etc. because they think they're agents of the deep state out to protect us from Trump) and remaining Never Trump conservatives.

*they still got blank checks from Congress

It’s a psychosomatic illness

Lock thread.

given that these stories specifically state that several clusters of reported symptoms including one in vienna and the original one in havana are being deemed unexplained and are still being investigated, it kinda feels like you guys are arguing over nothing

no we explained them

Black mold in the torture dungeon showers, hangovers after getting honeypotted for national security secrets.

The right now thinks they're agents of the deep state out to get Trump, the left has always correctly read them as pure evil, their only constituency is a narrow band of liberals (...) and remaining Never Trump conservatives.

But bland as it seems, the great majority of the CIA's institutional activities consist of gathering up-to-date information about other nations' economic and military resources, and analyzing it. The thousands of intelligence analysts are just drones with little capacity for independently doing evil.

Where the deeper problem lies is always in the transition from information gathering and analysis into US political policies and actions. These do not originate in the CIA. The CIA's evil in the world is a direct extension of the evil policies of our government. Those elements of the CIA who do shit like 'rendition' and torture are the mafia underlings following the orders of the capo di tutti capi. Cut off the head and the body will die.

For too long, Americans affected by directed energy attacks have struggled and fought to access the care they need and deserve to get well. Their experiences drove my effort to establish this coordinator and reform our government response to provide equitable access to care. https://t.co/hRX06G1Xnb

— Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (@SenatorShaheen) February 1, 2022

Do you suffer from DEA? Now there's help for you.

We need justice for contrail victims

I suffer from a magician-keeps-pushing-a-cloud-over-my-head syndrome. When will I get some relief?

yeah i’ve got Havana Syndrome…Simply Havana Wonderful Christmastime

— chase (@chuchugoogoo) September 22, 2021

BREAKING: Inside sources at the CIA are saying the agency is looking seriously at the possibility the Chinese navy deployed a high energy acoustic weapon at the USS Carl Vinson causing an F35 to crash land. The Navy reported a strange sound hitting immediately before the crash. pic.twitter.com/l3Nb822WzM

— IntelliNEWS (@IntellNEWS2) February 7, 2022

Sub-Eric Garland-quality grifter account but the idea of Havana Syndrome headache rays explaining why the F-35 sucks is a great bit.

Big-ass story on this on 60 Minutes tonight. They interviewed John Bolton, so it MUST be true!!!!!!!

This shit is insane. I can't believe they didn't bring Lara Logan back to report a story this transparently full of shit. They played a recording of what they claimed was the magic headache ray and actually *reassured the audience* beforehand that the sound itself does not cause the effects - the sound is a byproduct of the brain-death ray, "like the sound of a gun." It was like something out of that show Brass Eye.

Where the deeper problem lies is always in the transition from information gathering and analysis into US political policies and actions. These do not originate in the CIA. The CIA's evil in the world is a direct extension of the evil policies of our government. Those elements of the CIA who do shit like 'rendition' and torture are the mafia underlings following the orders of the capo di tutti capi. Cut off the head and the body will die.

No H.W. Bush, no cred. I thought this was the greatest hits thread wtf.

I asked Alexander Stubbs, Integrative Biology PhD student at UC Berkeley, and author on first analysis of Havana Syndrome cricket noises about 60 Minutes recording - his response:

"My initial analysis of the recording in the 60 min piece is indeed the same species of cricket." https://t.co/A7iD4Tb9FS

— Dan Vergano (@dvergano) February 21, 2022

I adjusted the levels and ran it through some filters so you can hear that it's NOT a natural sound - people need to hear this: pic.twitter.com/uYbldA68WU

— 忍者の神 Marxist-Yeagerist ⌬ (@delmoi) February 21, 2022

damn it

I went to college with that twitter poster and I swear he's followed me around the internet to irritate me

No H.W. Bush, no cred.

Been saying it for years.

The US is ready to track down the evildoers behind this:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~7UAAOSw8idc6c-9/s-l1600.jpg

NOTE: Listening to a recording of the sound will not injure, it is a byproduct

We're just declaring outright that these sounds are the cause, huh?

Harbl did d3lm0i used to be a regular here or was that another forum I’m remembering?

i don't think so, i just found it in the replies

it sucks that a dude is blind in one eye

Unless his ‘unnamed government agency’ was the CIA, in which case lol good.

viborg did you ever read metaf1lter? that's one he plagued, lol

The grunts and squeals are by Josh Gad.

Slipping a little Havana Syndrome in here for fun

My hair wasn’t always white. Russians use chemicals, poisons, bullets, nerve agents, directed energy and information as weapons. https://t.co/H5BYoat4q5

— John Sipher (@john_sipher) February 24, 2022

someone replaced my just for men with krazy glue and i think i know who it is

Somewhat ignorant question, but is it only Americans who have reported symptoms? The bullshit headache ray manufacturer will want a better return on investment than targeting some GS-10-scale CIA drones.

it's only tuned to american brainwaves so far. the french are currently planned for a patch sometime in Q2