The Havana Syndrome

Tryna make fetch happen

CIA interim report is disinformation. Other agencies furious no coordination occurred & they disagree. This still shows how individual agencies disregarding uniform approach & not including proper experts. Why?

We already filed lawful whistleblower complaint challenging CIA. https://t.co/t1t1VduUN4

— Mark S. Zaid (@MarkSZaidEsq) January 20, 2022

best guess is that multiple people in this thread have dealt with the CIA regarding the matter

This report, if true, would seem to run directly contrary to milo's hypothesis that the CIA not only knew from the start that this syndrome was bogus, but that the CIA cunningly boosted its signal as part of a disinformation campaign, purposely creating a hysteria beneficial to them and their spymasters. If it all was working so well to that end, why repudiate it?

Don't think anyone ever claimed it was working well? Why not cash yr chips in when it's clear the con isn't working?

Not sure how “Havana Syndrome=Profit” works. Sounds like “hospitals get paid more if they call it a COVID death”.

ah the cia simps are out again

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CompleteFriendlyAustraliancurlew-max-1mb.gif

aren't they just testing a weapon on their own people? that's kinda their m.o.

Not sure how “Havana Syndrome=Profit” works

why would they decide to stop the massive havana syndrome gravy train versus just making a fake report that says it was definitely a foreign power?

because it didn't gain any traction and is being mocked by all but the most susceptible

also the purpose of a con doesn't have to be exclusively financial gain

but i thought the overly credulous shill media was buying it hook line & sinker? itt the cia is all-powerful but also susceptible to twitter criticism, their motives unknowable but also completely obvious & predictable

the objective isn't to convince the media, it's to convince the populace

INT. CIA HEADQUARTERS, NIGHT: "Bad news, fellow spooks... it's being mocked by all but the most susceptible... there's nothing left to do, I guess, but release a report that tells the truth. We did our best."

I don't think the CIA is "all powerful" at all, it has a long and storied history of fucking up while meddling in world events, judged by the standards of what it was trying to achieve

I also don't think it's motives are ever unknowable, they're pretty straightfoward

I mean I dunno man, we're talking about an organisation that has a long history of lying to the populations of other countries and its own, this isn't even some leftist conspiracy stuff it's acknowledged by the organisation itself, though of course always within the framing of "we needed to do this to protect freedom/America".

Dunno why when an organisation that does this comes out with a wildly outlandish claim our default should be that they're acting in good faith.

the cia is obv a historical bad actor but i guess i just have never heard an explanation for this particular conspiracy theory that makes any sense, even by those terms. the purpose of this gigantic worldwide con operation was intended to increase the American public's antipathy towards a group of countries most Americans already virulently fear & hate? except the cia suddenly changed their mind and decided to give up?

Have you considered they are just kinda dumb and paranoid and genuinely believed they weee on to something

Were

much of the CIA's 20th century activity was aimed at increasing animosity against countries that most Americans already virulently feared and hated

if the report said it was definitely a foreign power ppl would say "of course theyd say that, the cia acts with total impunity to alter the course of world events", but when the report says the opposite its "of course theyd say that, they are total bumbling goons and are obviously very embarrassed."

Like not everything is a fourth dimension false flag psy-op. It’s possible they really think there was some sort of death ray giving them headaches cause they are dumb and paranoid that antifa is out to get them.

otm. and we all still get to think the cia is dumb and make fun of them! everybody wins.

I don't think that believing that they could pull this story off makes them any less dumb than believing it was actually true tbh

if the report said it was definitely a foreign power ppl would say "of course theyd say that, the cia acts with total impunity to alter the course of world events", but when the report says the opposite its "of course theyd say that, they are total bumbling goons and are obviously very embarrassed."

Well yeah, I'm not going to give a CIA report creedence no matter what its conclusions are, think that's pretty reasonable

except you have to shift your entire estimation of the cia depending on which conclusion you want to believe the opposite of(?), is my point

I was reading the timeline of a scholar who studies not national security, but the culture of the national security community and his conclusion is basically that they are really insulated from reality, subject to groupthink, not bright at all, and genuinely believe all protest or left wing movements are all in lock step and directed by central masterminds.

I mean, when the starting point is "the CIA are always bad intentioned liars" (which is, historically, not a bad starting position to take), it's easy enough to twist the narrative around this to be whatever you want it to be.

You don't, really - they float shit, some of it works, some of it doesn't. Just because an intelligence agency tries to influence public opinion doesn't mean there's some determinsitic guarantee that it'll work.

xpost

I mean "of course the CIA would say that" is the get out of jail free card for literally any discussion around this and, once laid, it's pointless to engage in any further nuanced conversation.

has the cia ever previously publicly called bullshit on their own psyops operation bc they sensed the public wasnt buying it?

fwiw my reaction to this isn't at all "of course the CIA would say that"; the fact that they'be backtracked is somewhat surprising to me

it's the conclusion "well this is proof that it must have been started in good faith" that I find hasty and unconvincing

I'm clearly in the minority and I really don't want to put myself in a position to get bullied by milo in yet another thread, all I'm saying is that I also think the CIA is full of shit but I maintain there is an interesting conversation to be had around why this did pick up steam as it did and how even the dumb, media driven narrative may have led to seemingly "real" symptoms for people.

I just think the whole story is somewhat fascinating from a sociological perspective without believing any group is out there aiming actual magic ray guns at the heads of diplomats. This just clearly is not the thread for getting into that, lest you be outed as a "CIA simp".

The 'you were saying it was a psyop!!! from the start' line doesn't really work either. As covered upthread many times, some people felt bad for some reason (crickets, ennui) and the natsec state (not just the CIA - State and the NSA and the usual crowd of DC hawks) immediately began treating and promoting it as an attack - that's not a psyop, that's institutional paranoia being used to further their goals (get money, foster hostility to 'enemies').

It’s a psychosomatic illness being used to promote the interests of the CIA and foreign policy hawks. As mass hysteria is wont to do, the more it’s promoted, the wider the phenomenon becomes. This we have 5G conspiracy nuts who are now being targeted by leave-behind GRU cells in Tucson.

Some people in Cuba had some vague symptoms - possibly crickets, possibly bad paint, possibly the knowledge of their eternal damnation wearing on their mind. It was immediately picked up as an attack on Americans by Cubans. Then by the Russians.

The new report requires no 'twisting of the narrative' for anyone suspicious of the hawks' motives in promoting this - and as above, some of them are still trying to make it happen.

we all know this thread is itself a cia psyop, seeded with double-agent assets secretly tasked with baiting posters into defending cia's good faith, its clear as day

I don’t care about wether it was in good faith but just arguing that these people are dumber than we usually give them credit for qua “manipulating public opinion” or whatever.

i'm bummed cuba/china/russia doesn't have a mind ray, which would be evidence of a great leap in understanding

Historically they've been quite successful at manipulating public opinion - the failure* here has more to do with the position America's imperial mandarins find themselves in these days.

The right now thinks they're agents of the deep state out to get Trump, the left has always correctly read them as pure evil, their only constituency is a narrow band of liberals (who like the CIA/FBI/etc. because they think they're agents of the deep state out to protect us from Trump) and remaining Never Trump conservatives.

*they still got blank checks from Congress

It’s a psychosomatic illness

Lock thread.

given that these stories specifically state that several clusters of reported symptoms including one in vienna and the original one in havana are being deemed unexplained and are still being investigated, it kinda feels like you guys are arguing over nothing

no we explained them

Black mold in the torture dungeon showers, hangovers after getting honeypotted for national security secrets.

The right now thinks they're agents of the deep state out to get Trump, the left has always correctly read them as pure evil, their only constituency is a narrow band of liberals (...) and remaining Never Trump conservatives.

But bland as it seems, the great majority of the CIA's institutional activities consist of gathering up-to-date information about other nations' economic and military resources, and analyzing it. The thousands of intelligence analysts are just drones with little capacity for independently doing evil.

Where the deeper problem lies is always in the transition from information gathering and analysis into US political policies and actions. These do not originate in the CIA. The CIA's evil in the world is a direct extension of the evil policies of our government. Those elements of the CIA who do shit like 'rendition' and torture are the mafia underlings following the orders of the capo di tutti capi. Cut off the head and the body will die.

For too long, Americans affected by directed energy attacks have struggled and fought to access the care they need and deserve to get well. Their experiences drove my effort to establish this coordinator and reform our government response to provide equitable access to care. https://t.co/hRX06G1Xnb

— Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (@SenatorShaheen) February 1, 2022

Do you suffer from DEA? Now there's help for you.

We need justice for contrail victims

I suffer from a magician-keeps-pushing-a-cloud-over-my-head syndrome. When will I get some relief?

yeah i’ve got Havana Syndrome…Simply Havana Wonderful Christmastime

— chase (@chuchugoogoo) September 22, 2021

BREAKING: Inside sources at the CIA are saying the agency is looking seriously at the possibility the Chinese navy deployed a high energy acoustic weapon at the USS Carl Vinson causing an F35 to crash land. The Navy reported a strange sound hitting immediately before the crash. pic.twitter.com/l3Nb822WzM

— IntelliNEWS (@IntellNEWS2) February 7, 2022

Sub-Eric Garland-quality grifter account but the idea of Havana Syndrome headache rays explaining why the F-35 sucks is a great bit.

Big-ass story on this on 60 Minutes tonight. They interviewed John Bolton, so it MUST be true!!!!!!!