Katrina's aftermath

i know not everything has gone smoothly, but uh extenuating circumstances etc. and it's getting on track now.

If that's the way you want to interpret my opinion, fine. I'm obviously not going to get you to change your mind, even though I've tried my best to explain what exactly my position is (which has obviously been completely misinterpreted by everyone). I can't expect anymore.

(edit: Nagin has done a pretty fine job. Perhaps he could have called for Martial Law earlier, but there was almost certainly too much rescue work to have been done)
>xpost if you don't want to be a called a moron or a ghoul, the easiest way not to is to NOT BE ONE.<

I'm a news junkie like a lot of people reading this thread. Again, if you want to call me a ghoul, that's fine. Makes me no different than the millions of Americans who flip out and follow what happens in Iraq or the Sudan or in Southeast Asia closely without any family ties or interest other than that of watching the unfolding of major world events. Maybe that's good, and maybe that's bad. I don't know nor pretend to.

i know. i was referring to the same thing.

* Select ONE of the following:
Hurricane 2005 Relief
Nat'l Disaster Relief Fund
...
...
Measles Initiative

nothing's stopping anyone from making multiple donations.

classic

ok

Almost everyone carried a plastic bag or bundled bedspread holding the few possessions they had left after Hurricane Katrina decimated their city. Some hobbled on walkers, canes and crutches; others inched forward on wheelchairs. Women led children and carried babies.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.laeg11709010048.hurricane_katrina_laeg117.jpg?x=380&y=271&sig=SIuRzlnYH47ZYl2yjiSk2g--

When did I say they were all "stupid"? There's a lot of people I feel bad for, yeah. Even the people who stayed behind who chose to. I don't even know how it got to this point, honestly. Last I remember, I was saying that the reaction to a nuclear event would be different than it was to the hurricane, and somehow its mutated into that I'm an evil ghoul who hates poor blacks.

Look, let's just ignore this, and go back to the news at hand, okay? Right now, its pretty quiet anyhow on all fronts. So let's all hope that order is restored in the city soon, the levies are filled, and people can continue to be evacuated, okay? Goddamn.

oh yeah. y'know, i never thought of that. Seriously.

i think to myself, "ok, i need to donate X amount of money" then i get there and i see the exclusive-or setup of the select box. i think "hmm, guess i can only send funds to one cause then. oh well." and i select the one, enter in the full X amt, and that's that.

It never occurs to me that "hey, maybe i should divvy it up" with x/2 going to cause A this time, then go thru another entire card-info entry for the other x/2 going to cause B. of course, my thought processes are a bit particular to myself, so perhaps the other way is obvious to everybody else.

it must have smelled pretty horrid with all the backed-up toilets and tens of thousands of sweaty people who hadn't showered in days.

(aside: did i just hear on cnn that women were RAPED inside the superdome? i'd like to see someone try to justify that as "survival"! on second thought, take it to the horny thread.)

oh, right, you only said:

Probably a good percentage were though. Probably near half.

sorry for not being clear.

Forgive me if I'm less than excited by this thought.

Probably a good percentage were though. Probably near half.

sorry for not being clear. <

You equate staying with the choice to leave with being stupid, and therefore believe my opinion that perhaps half of the people in New Orleans stayed by choice to be that I believe they are stupid. You're transposing your beliefs on me, obviously, because I've never claimed that the people who stayed were dumb, idiots, stupid, et al. They did what is expected of people in a place about to be hit by a storm. I don't blame them for being conditioned to do so.

All that aside, it is more important that you give money than that you worry about the ins and out of how you're giving money.

I don't doubt that you have either, were you to claim so. I'm just passing on information that people may be interested in.

the red cross is a class act. i'd have my doubts about how a lesser-known or less-reputable charity would handle my money, but if i give to the red cross i know that somehow it will reach the people that need it.

">so all who remained in New Orleans were stupid.<
That's a fantastic strawman to come up with and throw at me.

Of course not. Probably a good percentage were though. Probably near half. I'm not stupid. I saw the people lining up into the Superdome just like everyone else."

...

Of course not. Probably a good percentage were though. Probably near half. I'm not stupid. I saw the people lining up into the Superdome just like everyone else."

I called it a strawman for a reason, fever. I never said "so all who remained in New Orleans were stupid.". Nor would I. That wasn't the intention of what I was posting, believe it or not.

is there any other way to parse this?

Well, yeah, if you want to completely remove the context in which I said this, sure. Like I said before, the only man to equate it with stupidity at any time was hstencil, and hey, whatever. He's probably under some duress right now and if so, I probably was a conduit for him to get out some of his emotion tonight. I can't get that heated over it. Its basically like being thrown a "How often do you beat your kids/wife?" type question.

i think "does your mom know you're gay?" is the chestnut you're actually looking for here.

anyhow, you don't allow that anything you've said on this thread is in any way insensitive? really?

(I know Adam's posted... is there anyone else on the bitch from NO?)

yeah, the CNN chick did the "toxic gumbo" phrase

i think "does your mom know you're gay?" is the chestnut you're actually looking for here.<

I can go with the latter. In either case, I certainly didn't make that an intended effort, and I think that's prety obvious.

>anyhow, you don't allow that anything you've said on this thread is in any way insensitive? really?<

I thought about this for a moment. I suppose it perhaps is to some people. I accept that fact. After all, I can't expect to know what are the triggers for all people. By the same token, I'm as inquisitive and yearning for knowledge as anyone else. Matter of fact, my entrance into that argument was merely a reply to a previous poster. Perhaps I was insensitve. For that I apologize to anyone was offended, but I only do so to a point. Frankly, a lot of the shots I've taken are from people that have hardly taken a high or classy road through this thread. To them, there's not much of an apology at all.

The thread has quieted down now. We can get back to the business of keeping the information going.

I don't think anyone has seen him post or heard from him yet. Uptown, which is where I think he was fromm was pretty dry until last night. Some water came in then, but I don't think its ever gone beyond the point of being say, ankle deep. The biggest issue there has been looting, and hopefully he's been able to stay away from than.

"They bought their ticket, they knew what they were getting into. I say, LET 'em crash!"

It's kinda interesting to see how many forms the "they're poor by choice, so fuggim'" argument can take.

I never did any such thing, you fucking idiot. FUCK OFF.

note that many of the ads have a "*****KATRINA VICTIMS ONLY*****" tag, either in the header or in the body. I wonder how much identity fraud is going to happen.

My friend Tony and I spoke at work back on Sunday about looting; We were astonished that no one had really started to yet. Logically, all the electricity is going to be cut off, everything is going to flood, and the tapes are all going to be destroyed. If you're poor, and you're stuck in your home for what sounds to be perhaps the next month and a half, without any chance of even GOING OUTSIDE, yeah, big surprise that there is looting.

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), August 30th, 2005 2:36 PM. (Alan Conceicao) (later)

>that's not going to happen. the coast guard is going to rescue and evacuate as many people as it can, and the ones who aren't rescued will die.<

Well, consider that as part of the looters vision. Shit, if you're gonna die, might as well get some stuff first. I know that if I was going to die, and I was trapped in a house surrounded by sewage, gas, and oil, running through some increasingly deep water for some free smokes and some nice clothes to die in wouldn't be such a horrible idea. Not like anyone is going to miss it.

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), August 30th, 2005 2:47 PM. (Alan Conceicao) (later)

Everyone was OTM when they called New Orleans the Bangladesh of America for like, I dunno, the last 20 years up to about 2 hours ago. They should have stayed with that.

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), August 30th, 2005 3:17 PM. (Alan Conceicao) (later)

But they chose to spend their money elsewhere as well. Who built the Superdome? There's some sense of self responsibility as well here, seeing as they live there.

>SELA was started 10 years ago. something was done.<

"started". So no one realized until 1995 that maybe, just maybe, a big city filled with people all under the sea level that existed solely because there were pumps and levees might be in trouble in case it has a hurricane?

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), August 31st, 2005 11:42 PM. (Alan Conceicao) (later)

It was spread across every media outlet. TV, radio, print. The only way to miss it would be to have been blind and deaf; basically someone in a coma or a lower state of consciousness…

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), September 1st, 2005 9:56 PM. (Alan Conceicao) (later)

>HELLO most folks were TOO FUCKING POOR TO LEAVE! <

Lots of people were too poor to leave or own vehicles, but if you own a house, you have a car and you can go. I've yet to hear a single family pulled from a home today say "well, we just couldn't leave because we don't have the money". Honestly now: do you believe that New Orleans is so poor that 10-20% of its citizens are completely incapable of transporting themselves or finding transportation from others out of the city? That they're so completely impoverished, that they only have access to their local neighborhood?

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), September 1st, 2005 10:02 PM. (Alan Conceicao) (later)

There are people that don't own TVs OR radios OR have access to newspapers OR have neighbors and family members to tell them to get out? Where are these people living in America? Especially in a huge urban enviroment like New Orleans?

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), September 1st, 2005 10:10 PM. (Alan Conceicao) (later)

>there are people who are extremely poor and don't have complete media access. and maybe they only know similar people.<

In a city? I call bullshit. The only people living completely off the grid in this country (at least the vast majority of them) are doing so in highly rural areas, and even they have communication equipment of some kind. The number of people without a transistor radio in the US is in the fractions of 1 percent, and somewhere around 95% of all households own a TV. If these people are taking a bus to work, they're going to hear the call for evacuation from the Emergency Preparedness System that, in the state of Louisiana, like ALL states, has to provide information regarding evacuation once such an order is issued, somewhere, at some time. I wouldn't be surprised to know that there were cops driving down the street telling people to leave their homes either, and giving people information to go to the Superdome or elsewhere, especially since BUSES were set up to bring people there.

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), September 1st, 2005 10:20 PM. (Alan Conceicao) (later)

Of course, its more realistic to imagine that virtually everyone who stayed (about a quarter of the population) is too poor to afford a vehicle and too socially inept to have any contact with family or friends in the area who could transport them out. But please, go on and mock actual facts over wild speculation, because god knows its the more sensible thing to do.

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), September 1st, 2005 11:47 PM. (Alan Conceicao) (later)

I'm sorry. I should just blame the Louisiana government for not being able to get everyone out in time and keeping everyone stupid, because that was clearly their intention. I'll buy that 60% of that remaining 300,000 were there because they were too poor to get out, but no more than that.

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), September 1st, 2005 12:14 AM. (Alan Conceicao) (later)

If you want to believe that every single poor person in the city of New Orleans couldn't get out because they lacked the means to, plus about 10-15% over the poverty line, that's fine with me. Believe whatever you'd like.

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), September 1st, 2005 12:20 AM. (Alan Conceicao) (later)

>so all who remained in New Orleans were stupid.<

That's a fantastic strawman to come up with and throw at me.

Of course not. Probably a good percentage were though. Probably near half. I'm not stupid. I saw the people lining up into the Superdome just like everyone else.

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), September 1st, 2005 12:23 AM. (Alan Conceicao) (later)

even if the people who responded were legit katrina victims, i'm not trusting enough to let strangers into my home and i wonder if the folks who are are thinking it through.