Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avP8IyKw5_w

There’s “school sucks” and then there’s

3. Suicide attempts have risen, slightly among adolescent boys and sharply among adolescent girls. The number of E.R. visits for suspected suicide attempts by 12- to 17-year-old girls rose by 51 percent from early 2019 to early 2021, according to the CDC. https://t.co/9wHLBsI8mc

— David Leonhardt (@DLeonhardt) January 4, 2022

Cow_Art, we’ve had success with small size KN95s for our 7 and 9 year olds. Looks like the brand is MISSAA, but it’s just some generic Chinese manufacturer that i assume my wife is buying on Amazon. But they have tie-dye patterns that the kids like and they fit well enough that they’ll keep them on through the school day.

No idea what we’re going to do in 2 months when our toddler turns 2 and needs to start wearing one.

Eazy, well I am sympathetic to the vast majority of Leonhart’s points and find them compelling, that particular one has been getting pretty extensively debunked (I believe even upthread)

xpost Just get your toddler a fake ID showing they are under 2 and you're golden.

Good point we can just adjust the birth date monthly

i know this is whataboutism or tu quoque or some other thing but i'm running out of patience for that kind of article. the only reason these negative life consequences for kids are being talked about in the nytimes is that upper class parents are being affected by this. they want to say teachers are the ones harming kids by advocating for a brief period of online school while (at least where i am) many vaccinated teachers are testing positive and there are 0 beds available at many hospitals. and we have abandoned the "it'll be fine as long as there is good ventilation, masks, etc." teachers are literally fundraising for N95 masks because schools aren't providing them. but we have to keep bars open. like, haha:

Would it be ideal if all schools had daily tests & great ventilation? Sure, but that’s not reality. We cannot inflict further harm to an entire generation. This is not 2020: We have vaccines + masks, and Omicron is milder. Schools must be open. @ProfEmilyOster @biannagolodryga pic.twitter.com/kgllVcqqeh

— Leana Wen, M.D. (@DrLeanaWen) January 6, 2022

why are you guys at home then? go to a tv studio and do your interview.

lol yeah, seriously.

I don't know what the solution is, but this week has been the first time I've really seen the stress getting to my kids. One is stuck at home in quarantine and she's freaking out about falling behind, getting assignments, not getting to ask questions, not being with her friends, and so on, and the other one who is still going to school is freaking out about catching covid from someone there as teachers and cohort call in sick.

My wife teaches in a very crowded NYC school, likely had COVID over christmas break, and I likely had it from her. Also, I know I made this point a while back, but any parent who advocates kids being in school is necessarily exposing themselves to whatever COVID risk comes from that school, so it's not like they have no skin in the game.

between the "not being in school is LITERALLY KILLING CHILDREN" histrionics, and the inflammatory, OTT bullshit of the Dr Kim Prather/Jose-Luis Jimenez "#covidisairborne" cult that literally tell random tweeters their tweets are putting thousands of lives at risk, this was a good week to finally stop reading Twitter, lol.

Wen's been disappointing lately, I much prefer Katherine Wu, Ph.D.

I don’t know if anyone else knows this but man alive really wants his kids to go back to school

wen has been disappointing for a long time but that's how CNN picks their contributors

saying you want schools to be open even though you personally might get covid is different than saying teachers/unions are harming a whole generation out of their own self interest, which seems to be the line. teachers being a famously selfish group.

i saw leana wen at my local wine store once, pre-covid

o rly, Wen?

saying you want schools to be open even though you personally might get covid is different than saying teachers/unions are harming a whole generation out of their own self interest, which seems to be the line. teachers being a famously selfish group.

― towards fungal computer (harbl), Thursday, January 6, 2022 9:07 AM bookmarkflaglink

yeah someone I know tried to use the "where do YOU teach?" dig in response to the teacher criticizing that Leonhardt tweet thread, as if it was the nastiest dig alive ("looks like we got ourselves a TEACHAH here!").

no wonder so many of my friends are leaving the teaching workforce or getting ready to.

I assume most people out to smear teachers unions has a preexisting vendetta against them and are opportunistically capitalizing on the situation. I don’t think they are bad, I just think some of them are wrong here. But I’ve also given up on the idea that I can know what’s best for the children of Chicago. I know what’s good for my kids and what’s going on here, and I take my wife’s word on what’s good for her students.

teachers/unions are harming a whole generation out of their own self interest, which seems to be the line

That might be the line among talking heads and twitter personalities, but in real life, as a parent of elementary school-aged children, virtually all parents I know who fall into the "we need to prioritize keeping kids learning in-person" (which at times includes myself) are deeply sympathetic to teachers and trying to weigh a lot of shitty circumstances and variables against each other. ofc it is in the interest of getting kids back to schools to make teachers feel comfortable and safe doing so! In spring 2021, when vaccines were rolling out (and here in Massachusetts teachers were infuriatingly not in the first waves of those eligible), our whole school community - staff/teachers/administrators and parents - all busted ass to make sure that teachers would be able to get vaxxed before in-person learning resumed. My kids go to a very small school so how it's been handled is not generalizable to everywhere but it felt respectful to all parties.

Anyway it sucks for kids to get caught in the crossfire of the politicization of this. People arguing on their behalf in bad faith or for political reasons should not affect the merits of the arguments.

As a teacher, I think it's better for kids to be in school, but I also think the closures are about a lot more than individual or even collective risk. When you have a lot of kids out quarantining, you can't really keep the kids who are out caught up, trying to adds another hour or so to your day, and inevitably a lot of the kids who were out will just never look at the materials you upload. So you don't know whether to forge ahead with important material or do review or what, because you suddenly have two groups of students. Meanwhile a lot of your colleagues are sick and the whole school system is on the verge of not having enough staff to stay open, and you are probably having to cover for other teachers during your prep period. You know that at any moment you could be out for ten days as well, and there's no good way to plan for that because you don't know when it will happen. It adds another layer of impossibility to an already unsustainable profession. Going remote makes the work and the expectations more predictable at least.

yep. also I think the Cron changes the discussion too, much easier to spread like wildfire in a class full of poorly masked folk, when we have record-breaking transmission going on atm, than previous variants.

the whole "but we did this before during a prior wave" debate that people are doing isn't sufficient rn.

for sure kids are not the best maskers. around here though schools are now requiring kn95s+ which should in theory at least be one measure against that wildfire spread. at my kids' school they also have masks on at all times indoors - eating snack and lunch outside even though it's been 20 degrees all week.

xp Those are good points, Lily Dale. I would say the social-emotional piece of being in person is the most important anyway, so even with all of that just getting to be around and be socialized by other kids has tremendous value. But unpredictability and trusted adults dropping out of your life for unannounced periods all the time also has negative social-emotional impact, so there's obv no good answer.

nb I live in a fairly privileged community

KN95 requirements definitely would go a long way to quell that spread for sure. are the schools supplying them, or just requiring parents to supply them for their children?

party line is def the latter. if people respond by saying they can't get them, not sure the degree to which schools are stepping up and providing

gotcha, thanks!

I think our school is asking people to wear KN95s but only providing surgical masks.

Anyway it sucks for kids to get caught in the crossfire of the politicization of this. People arguing on their behalf in bad faith or for political reasons should not affect the merits of the arguments.

― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, January 6, 2022 9:25 AM

it doesn't, that's why i do not wish to read any more concern trolling articles in the nyt (could stop here lol) unless these same writers want to demonstrate they give a shit about the mental health of children generally and not just when they can use their poor circumstances as a cudgel. as i said, i acknowledge that may be whataboutism but i don't care. at least the CDC had the courage to admit they changed the rules so companies could compel more people to work.

Do you really think Leana Wen is concern trolling?

she didn't write the article referencing the the suicide stats but her problem is more that she seems to be accusing teachers of "waiting for perfect" when they are definitely not. teachers are reacting to the circumstances in their communities, not waiting for zero covid or something.

this is also a weird thing to say because it would seem to be a good precaution to close the other things to make up for our failure to provide better ventilation for poor schools, give N95s to everyone, make testing more available, and impose vaccine mandates, and she isn't saying that.

Do bars? Do restaurants? Do sports stadiums with tens of thousands of fans? If we are not shutting down the rest of society, we shouldn’t shut down schools. They should be first to open and LAST to close.

— Leana Wen, M.D. (@DrLeanaWen) January 6, 2022

i didn't see her whole appearance, obviously, but i don't believe they asked her to address the actual conditions teachers are facing (like lily dale said above) or the hospitalization problem, in response to her claim that they are waiting for some perfect time to have permanent in-person school.

But I don't see anyone advocating to close schools focusing on closing those things first either. It's only the politics and power structures of our society that make schools more likely to close than bars and restaurants, not any kind of objective public health standard.

yes

My wife teaches in a very crowded NYC school, likely had COVID over christmas break, and I likely had it from her. Also, I know I made this point a while back, but any parent who advocates kids being in school is necessarily exposing themselves to whatever COVID risk comes from that school, so it's not like they have no skin in the game.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, January 6, 2022 7:50 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

'im ok with it therefore everyone else should be too'

man alive more like child dead, boom roasted

― class project pat (m bison), Tuesday, February 23, 2021 4:25 PM (six months ago) bookmarkflaglink

― class project pat (m bison), Tuesday, August 24, 2021 7:09 PM (two months ago) bookmarkflaglink

― class project pat (m bison), Sunday, November 14, 2021 12:19 PM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

coming up on one year of you making the same bad points, keep going!!!

'im ok with it therefore everyone else should be too'

― class project pat (m bison), Thursday, January 6, 2022 10:51 AM (three minutes ago)

ok but isn't this like almost everyone's covid POV

'im ok with it therefore everyone else should be too'

― class project pat (m bison), Thursday, January 6, 2022 10:51 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I really don't give a shit if "everyone" is "ok with it." People advocate their positions and policy decisions get made, it's never the case that everyone is "ok with it" and your personal level of ok-ness is no more valid than mine.

my position is actually much more valid than yours, ive already attended a funeral for one of my former students and seen one of my current students become an orphan this year bc of covid, eat shit

I dunno. It used to be that kids had to go to school, and would get in trouble if they didn't. Further, parents had to send their kids to school, and would get in trouble if they didn't. Were there reasons for that? It's so long ago that I don't remember.

We're currently four weeks into a two-week break, and we're managing somehow. Yet I still think it's strange the way school has just kinda become optional, or even come to be considered a frivolous luxury product that only weirdos insist on.

what

Sorry to sound flippant there - I mean I totally understand that saving lives is more important.

What I'm trying to express is a sense of whiplash. Like, for more than a century it was "go to school and learn things or else," now it's "meh, everyone will catch up somehow."

yeah, all the teachers are just going "meh" because they want to stay home in their jam jams

is anyone saying the latter?

What I hear: "Kids will miss classrooms and have gaps in their learning, everything sucks right now."

harbl, did I say that? I did not.

sorry you're right i'm just frustrated but you did say "kinda become optional, or even come to be considered a frivolous luxury product that only weirdos insist on." which no one is doing and no one is saying meh

This thread might be somewhat improved by not characterizing anyone's attitude to covid/restrictions as "meh." Honestly I'd almost love to see someone be genuinely nonchalant about the pandemic rather than using a transparent veneer of nonchalance to cover seething intensity

Lord Alfred's formulation is the right one, sorry, didn't mean to stir shit, everything sucks and everyone's frustrated

i know! that's all i'm looking for at this point! xpost