Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

Just watched the beginning of Black Widow; it has a surprisingly “arty” look. (hey - young Yelena likes mac & cheese!)

The Mar-Vell lightspeed research would have provided a technological leap advantage over the Kree for either the Skrull folk she was working with, or for humanity (as she was involving Earth in the conflict by hiding out here).

She can’t just give them the Kree’a existing technology(?) why she gotta reinvent the wheel?

I mean this is technology that, when absorbed by Carol Danvers (presumably not the intended mode of interface) makes her one of the most powerful beings in the universe - it's probably got some oomph to it.

Something kinda cool about some of these Marvel movies is how they include roles for "older" actors (including older women, like Annette Bening and Michelle Pfeiffer).

Meantime, over in Hawkeye world:

Trust me In Hawkeye I'm playing the character as if the character from DD survivor of "the blip"Is now set on getting back his city.
The blip weakened his crown, his authority over his kingdom. Now he wants it back. He's in damage control mode.
That's all. Merry Merry.

— Vincent D'Onofrio (@vincentdonofrio) December 23, 2021

Guess his effectiveness at controlling damage is kind of a cliffhanger.

he was so fking good

Really enjoyed the Spider-Man flick. I liked that they loaded it up with character stuff. Holland kinda felt outmatched when he was surrounded by stage and screen vets and Oscar-caliber folks.

It was the best Marvel Team-Up story ever.

My only knowledge of kingpin is from spiderverse, and I really didn’t like the character in Hawkeye at all - like frank black in resort wear channeling colonel kurtz and fezzik from princess bride. Is he supposed to be superpowered?

Also someone earlier mentioned Florence Pugh’s charisma - I’ve only seen her in black widow during an opiate and intense pain haze so it’s kind of blurry but it’s really interesting to see someone on screen who radiates some sort of indescribable “it” quality that separates them from everyone else.

At the very least, Kingpin has the power of surviving the kinds of stuff Hawkeye, Black Widow, Daredevil and other humans with no special magic healing power can survive.

He can lift (press) 180 lbs. and is in the physical condition of an average person of his height and weight who engages in little regular exercise.

i got that reference

Just finally saw the new Spider-man and ... really didn't like it. You know how the hacky thing to compare these movies to is rollercoaster rides? Well, this felt like one long drawn out amusement park ride, like literally, like the ones where you go down the hill and then as you are rounding the corner you see movie clips cheering you on or whatever? "Come, guys, if we want to stop Green Goblin we have to move faster!" Stuff like that. Except this was also dull and low-stakes.

Watched the rest of Black Widow; that was damn good! What a movie.

This is probably a v dumb q (so apologies) -

I'm hardly an action-film connoisseur, and not at all a Q. Tarantino acolyte; but my wife and I will watch the Kill Bill movies whenever they're on TV (they're pretty great).

Black Widow as a scene where Natasha & Yelena fight in a kitchen, which naturally makes you think of Kill Bill (as both KB movies have close-quarters kitchen fight scenes). And then you think: how come this huge-budget, state-of-the-art action movie – which has pretty great stunts generally (especially in vehicles) - doesn't have fight scenes that look as anywhere near good as the fighting in Kill Bill? Why was Tarantino able to get such great-looking fighting in those movies? Was it a matter of hiring specific "fight choreographers," which most Hollywood producers don't bother doing? I really don't know anything about it....

I think that could very well be it. The sword choreography was by Tetsuro Shimaguchi (don't know what else he's done), but Yuen Woo-ping was the lead guy on Kill Bill, and of course he did Crouching Tiger, the Matrix, some Jackie Chan stuff, etc. A legend. But also it helps to have a director really into that stuff, like Tarantino. Black Widow director is just a for-hire sort of person, afaict.

it’s a pretty specific ecosystem
it’s good fight choreography that has been given room for rehearsal + good interplay between actor & stunt doubles + direction that allows the camera to show the full range of motion of the fighting + an understanding between director & editors that there’s no need to cut constantly to create “more” action etc etc

often if the choreo’s not great or actors/stunt doubles aren’t quite there (or if the director isnt well versed in shooting fight scenes) theyll cut a lot more to make it seem more actiony, or to hide that the doubles handled all the fighting … theres lots of variables

plus there’s a conventional wisdom that assumes lots of cutting is good & you should move the camera around but the really good action directors understand that oldschool principles from 60s & 70s are what makes it look REALLY good - keeep the camera still & make sure everyone, actor & double, on camera is a badass

Thanks - yeah, that really nails it! - all those quick cuts, vs. just holding on the action so you really see what's happening (and what's happening is great).

I imagine it takes a lot of planning and patience to pull off fight scenes like that (how many days, or even weeks, of training/rehearsal and arranging camera placements, etc., for just one scene?); and that is time that is not available for a movie with a gazillion dollar budget and bunch of moving pieces.

yes and no - iirc they were able to pull off a lot of beautiful fighting in Shang Chi on a pretty short time frame - but they also had Tony Leung & michelle yeoh & badass choreographers etc etc —- like, it can be done on a shorter timeframe if the production is willing/able to prioritize & put money into that and not cut safety/quality corners at the same time. its the whole ecosystem pulling in one unified direction, whether with a long lead time or a short lead time, that allows for the end result to be good

imo

That's true, the fighting was pretty cool in Shang-Chi...

One sliiiiight letdown in Black Widow (although the movie was so good, I didn't really mind) was the inevitable big ol' CGI action climax; though it was better than some others, and the falling-out-of-the-sky element seemed to allude to the beginning of that gonzo Waid/Samnee series. (It did do a particular physics-defying movie thing that makes me cringe - where someone deploys a chute at the very last minute of a long-ass freefall, and somehow lands unharmed. One of those recent James Bond movies did that too; maybe they were paying "homage" to that nonsense, haha!)

i found the fighting weak in shang-chi but i disliked the whole movie.

i think its a question of priority, time and control. tarantino was willing to let the fight sequences take as long as they needed to take to film and properly choreograph. he's also a good director!

otm re tarantino

That's what I was saying. One movie is a superhero movie that happens to have some fighting in it. The other one is a two-part epic homage to classic martial arts films directed by a martial arts film nerd. Bourne movies might be a better touchstone for Black Widow.

yeah. And Bourne movies shaky-cam & close-up coverage has definitely affected how action sequences were filmed

it was a good technique for those films (or at least the first Bourne) but once you start applying it broadly to every big movie with action in it, as has been the case though its becoming less prevalent, it becomes less effective. It adds unnecessary tension to something that is already tense and i think it undercuts great stuntwork by not letting you appreciate how those fights work in natural space, showing full range of motion etc

like you cant always tell where anyone is in relation to anyone else & i haaaate that

same with car chases - if i cant tell how fast theyre going or have a sense that the driver could really be driving then no amount of cutting is going to make me invested

And the car chase in Black Widow was pretty awesome (IMO!)

This is an unrelated plot point question (for anyone who cares to read/answer): When the Red Guardian dude keeps bragging about how he used to fight Captain America in the 1980s – even though Cap was still frozen in ice at the time (as one of the prisoners points out) - what's up with that? He even asks Natasha if Cap ever talks about him, so he seems to really believe it happened(?)

i think the character is meant to be full of shit and coasting on the days when he was a big man and folks of that sort regularly fool themselves into believing their own stories

Haven't seen Falcon & the Winter Soldier, so don't know if they addressed it there, but in the comics, when Steve Rogers went into the ice, there were a series of replacement Caps used to keep the role active. Good summary here. I assumed it was a Cold War alt-Cap, and they haven't introduced (or retconned) the MCU yet.

How bad were those two last episodes of hawkeye, jfc

Not bad at all, really

i really liked Hawkeye

I thought it was really good most the way through, lovely fun vibe and great cast and action

Alas they couldnt just close off any plot soon enough to leave a coherent finale imo, and the home alone maguyver action was imo notably worse than the action scenes throughout which was a bitnof a letdown

there was something about how they really showed his normal-ness. reminding you that ok he’s an avenger but at the end of the day he’s also mainly an extremely agile ex-military normcore dad who lost his best friend. all the stuff with the hearing aid, and the deafness of the lead villain woman whose name just disappeared out of my head

i really liked all that. and how his relationship w steinfeld’s character was very cautious & parental.

its a very slow burn but i have so much room for that these days

Her name’s Echo, IIRC

Yep all of that was really good, renner is imo unfairly maligned a lot of the time i think hes got a funny head but makes it work, thats not a bad epitaph right

lmao

In the last episode, there's a yelena and clint sequence starting at 37:10. Yelena fully extends her leg into clint's chest. Clint kinda hangs out for a second before throwing himself backward. That part was bad.

interaction between kate and yelena was more interesting than interaction between kate and clint
i would gladly watch full series of kate and yelena being best frenemies

I'd even settle for a cooking series where they whip up different mac and cheese recipes every week while they banter.

I love the parallel track the Kate/Yelena relationship seems to be taking to the Clint/Natasha relationship

I LOVE HOT SAUCE

Enjoyed the new Spider-Man movie much more than Far From Home, which was one of the blandest Marvel movies so far. But the gimmick of the new one didn't have the impact it should have had since it came off the heels of Into the Spider-Verse, which largely did the same concept better

Eternals is now streaming for free on Disney+

Watched it this morning & I am in two minds. Loved Angelina Jolie, Loved Bryan Tyree, oh and holy shit loved Kumail especially - i fell OUT over the Bollywood stuff, truly great.
the outdoorsy-ness of the movie itself was really beautiful, so many big scenic locations & wind blowing through their hair etc - and it’s incredibly colorful, the costumes look so good

But also watching this was a bit bemusing. like if i didnt know who the Avengers were & there had been no other movies to introduce the characters & i tried to watch like, endgame. but more boring. HI EVERYONE IT’S US. HI I’M THIS GUY WHO DOES A THING WITH MY EYEZ, HI I’M THIS WOMAN WHO TURNS THINGS INTO OTHER THINGS, ETC ETC OH NO A VILLAIN WE MUST FIGHT THEM , and they all just fly around blowing shit up or stand around in groups telling each other how they feel. A lot of the movie felt like that. Just kind of, *shrug*

I watched it last night cos I could finally gran a decent copy. It is a bit slow innit. It was semi interesting and I wonder if Eternals actually Will Return. I would probably watch another bit of it.

I think I enjoyed Nomadland more though and I think that was shot on the coat tails of this not vice versa.

I don't know the Eternals world so not sure how good a representation this was.

Kind of interesting to see Camden high st after not being there in a couple of years.

Filming for Nomadland took place over four months in fall 2018, with writer-director Zhao splitting time between the set and pre-production for Eternals (2021)

Are they planning to make a Sentry movie? That would be great!

Just started this, so far it's pretty solemn and silly and boring gibberish in service of nothing.

^^New Board description?

i watched it and it was hot garbage mixed with portentous claptrap. the only even vaguely redeeming element was mahershala ali’s cameo. everyone involved who is not mahershala ali should take a long, hard look at their life choices.