Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

Uh, anecdotally, sounds like at home rapid tests are about to be a huge problem in the short term. Co-workers around me are frantically chasing them down today, almost everyone is completely sold out. One co-worker is driving 3-1/2 hours to Central Illinois tonight to pick some up.

We are incredibly fucked.

Home tests have graduated to the new toilet paper.

Just extra galling that not only do we have to pay $25 a pop for what other countries get for significantly less (or free!) but now we have to fight over them too.

Should maybe split the difference and stock up on kleenex. If you're triple vaxxed but going through tissues like crazy, that's practically a positive covid test.

I mean, what could go wrong with millions of people about to travel all over the country with no access to even simple at home tests? Surely this is all fine.

How about we stop running health systems with just barely enough capacity instead? How about we come up with some real plans for surge capacity when needed?

Health care systems consist mainly of trained and licensed health care professionals, not beds or ventilators. You can't surge them. No one is going to go through med school plus residency or nursing school and stay licensed if there are no jobs for them in the field unless there's a pandemic or other health crisis. You can't conjure trained people out of thin air or 'crash course' them into swift competence.

interested (not really!) in what the "let's just do it and be legends" poster thinks will happen to US health infrastructure if we spend a couple of weeks with 1m cases a day in a population which is 17% boosted.

re: rapid tests ihealth and binax are good. ihealth is cheaper for now. binax is the oldest. it's not clear they're as reliable for omicron as previous strains, but they're much better than nothing (and nothing will likely be the alternative as PCR testing capacity is exceeded over the next week or two).

reminder that very roughly rapid tests give you a yes/no answer to the question "am i infectious to other people".

Checking out how the rapid antigen test landscape has changed over the past year (not much), really like this figure from "Comparative analyses of all FDA EUA-approved rapid antigen tests and RT-PCR for COVID-19 quarantine and surveillance-based isolation"https://t.co/WbEmxV0kiR pic.twitter.com/UYmYhMNQEP

— alex rubinsteyn (@iskander) December 6, 2021

assuming you're a young healthy person not at risk of complications that's probably the question you want an answer to.

PCR tests tell you "do i have covid?", which is important to know if your symptoms are severe, but not the same thing.

I want an easy test that tells me if I recently *had* covid.

guy in radio this morning was an ex-doctor (83yo) who volunteered to do covid jabs and had reached 3000 during the two waves. so there is some elasticity there in terms of helthcare supply.

I'm also at the point where I think placing an neverending burden on the populace and especially on children to avoid "overwhelming health systems" is invalid. How about we stop running health systems with just barely enough capacity instead? How about we come up with some real plans for surge capacity when needed?

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, December 17, 2021 6:32 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

fuck you, you selfish asshole.

sincerely,

every single healthcare worker w/ a brain in the entire country, and also the table is the table

This is what you after the pandemic.

otm and also the answer to all these right-wingers I see suddenly extolling the virtues of exercise and fretting about how unhealthy our overall population is — yes, those are real problems and we should invest more in public health measures to counter them, but in the meantime we have states like mine with a 35 percent adult obesity rate and 35 percent would be a lot of people to write off. Someone who's 100 pounds overweight should maybe do a lot of things, but the first one is get fucking vaccinated.

Sorry for the digression, that one just really irritates me.

Id say, now im no expert, that covid restrictions will likely continue until the pandemic thats killed millions upon millions has finished, now im no expert

In light of that, man alive jr can just manage with whatever simply intolerable conditions are being imposed for the moment

Im no expert now

I think it's perfectly fair to say that even people of robust good will and respectable amounts of empathy can get tired of hearing "just a little while longer."

Like, everyone has heard "for a little while longer" so many times in the last two years

This, I think, is the issue. Most civilians (me especially included) went into this pandemic without a lot of knowledge about how a pandemic this severe would work, and although many of us knew about the Flu of 1918, we figured "we've advanced beyond that now", so I don't think most people anticipated 2+ years of their lives being uprooted. I actually thought it would be over by fall of 2020, naive as I was.

I'm not sure much could be done about that -scientists were purposefully avoiding predictions about when it would end because they themselves didn't know, and telling people that it may last years up front might lead to reticence to lock down or adopt NPIs versus keeping it open-ended and hoping for the best. It's probably a good thing they didn't, either - most guidance early on seemed to think fomite and droplet transmission was the most common, whereas now we know it's airborne (which, btw, wasn't even true of smallpox - it occasionally transmitted that way, but mostly transmitted via fomite/droplet).

It's exhausting. and some people in industries that require face to face interaction have had their entire livelihoods ruined. Musicians in bands who made a lot of their bread touring have had to take huge financial hits by cancelling multiple tours, and earlier in the pandemic, album releases were delayed too. no album, no merch, no tour = some bands had to retire from music and get day jobs, which during a pandemic which was not the easiest thing to do in 2020. or now, without putting yourself at risk (unless you get a remote job).

Likewise, what doesn't help is the constant framing of what we "can't" do during the pandemic. There are safe outdoor activities that can be done. But instead of focusing on that, the constant barrage is "STAY HOME". well - when you're the fattest you've ever been in your life, and now facing a myriad of new health issues you've never had before (HI!) that's a very sobering, depressing message. that doesn't mean 'don't do it', but....it explains why people snap and get fatigued and let up their guard.

Likewise, we went from being told in the US that we could take off our masks and that vaccinated people weren't really transmitting much disease to that truth fundamentally changing when Delta showed up. At the time, I defended the CDC, but on seeing how much fewer people are masking now, I definitely have changed my mind and think it really hurt us. so vaccinated people went from being told "you can live your life again, with minimal disturbances for the most part" to "nope, you gotta go back to masks and distancing/avoiding crowds again too".

that's nobody's fault, but psychology doesn't care. At some point, people have to have something to want to stay alive for. I struggled last year when I was living alone because I didn't see my friends for months, Zoom was miserable because it just felt like what I do for work so I didn't enjoy those calls, and I couldn't date anybody or do any of the activities that actually helped keep my mental state at bay, so...I was seriously worried! Moving in with my folks alleviated that a bit as at least I had contact with loved ones, but brought a new set of worries.

I think the messaging could use a bit more compassion, though I understand why beleaguered medical employees who are basically themselves about to snap from stress, depression, and fatigue aren't willing to give that now (given what they've seen and lost themselves). not to mention Scientists know their messaging will almost immediately be distorted so they're afraid of how to craft messages.

But what's really frustrating is how civilians have been set up to fail by their own governments. Like - if the US even tried to lock down right now, people would freak the fuck out. because like last time, we wouldn't have a relief bill in place before most states started locking down, and after facing two years of this, there aren't many people who could be without a paycheck for a month or more while we worked out stimulus/enhanced unemployment. AND - whatever benefits we did get would be meager, because Republicans and moderate/conservative Democrats would whittle the benefits down to bare bones, and since nobody is going to abolish the filibuster apparently, we'd wind up getting a dinky one time check and maybe a little extra weekly unemployment and we expect struggling families/individuals to put their faith in THAT after what happened last year?

It's just not going to happen. Not that it's the best way to contain at this point anyway, but it's not even an option on the table BECAUSE of the political reality. there's this semi-obscure dickhead 'scientist' on twitter who spends much time self-aggrandizing about how well he follows pandemic guidelines and keeps smugly saying "we could solve this problem if we just paid people to stay home", as if that's a political reality in this country that's ever going to happen (meanwhile, this dude is actively making six figures so of course he can stay home comfortably).

People can't stay home because many of them have jobs that won't allow them to. and they can't afford to find other jobs that do allow them to. and they work around people and customers who won't mask and there's nothing they can do about it. and sometimes, in the messaging, when they get COVID, we make them feel shame like it's their fault for getting it.

our government (US) doesn't give us access to cheap/free testing, and wait times at places where free testing is offered is long and often not same day, so infected people go on not knowing they're infected and spreading. Scientists and doctors scream "WEAR N95 AND KN95 MASKS ONLY" while ignoring that it's not a negligible expense for some families (I can afford constant re-upping of KN95s, but I know a LOT of people who really have to go the surgical route as it's so much cheaper and gives them a much longer supply).

so it also makes the populace feel defensive a bit to be under attack like they're not doing enough because many people can't do better. A lot of people (probably the majority of us) can do better and don't. Likewise, a lot of people haven't seen family in years as they avoided it, thinking it would be temporary, and now they legitimately don't know when they can see them again unless they just risk it.

People are giving up and saying "this virus is never going away, fuck it, I'm just gonna do whatever", and constantly screaming invectives at those assholes might feel good temporarily as a coping mechanism, but changes nothing. any time a doctor or scientist tries to help people understand activities they can do safely and how to do them safely, they get widely criticized by scolding peers for suggesting anything other than staying inside permanently. whereas this safer activities, while carrying some risk, carry far less risk than just going for broke, are not likely to contribute heavy to the spread, and give people peace of mind and make it easier for them to carry on another day. and to actually play ball and do what needs to be done.

I know I'm rambling but I'm just fucking wrecked. I've spent the last week doing the thing I'd avoided for 2 months, which is reading doom Twitter en masse, and it's like a sick addiction to candy. I feel gross and depressed every day, because the messaging is mostly "we're all gonna die" or treating it as a forgone conclusion that we aren't going to take the appropriate actions, with few people spreading hope. one prominent loudmouth doctor (who I won't name) said it was irresponsible to put any positive spin on Delta when it came out. and her news is just dour fatalism every day.

anyway. I wish all of us the best. I hope we stay sane through all of this. and alive.

This kind of situation, full of constantly shifting prognostications, rules and recommendations, is where it's a big help to maintain an attitude that it's ok to just muddle through as best you can, coupling low expectations with a measure of hopefulness. This attitude seems to be an alien mindset for lots of Americans.

my attitude lately is "take a shit, you'll feel better"

i'm usually correct

evergreen advice

everbrown really

That's an incredible post Neanderthal, with a lot of great points. Not much to add, but thanks for putting it out there.

There's a whole lot of room between one pole of locking yourself in your house/apartment for weeks on end and interacting with zero people and going out unmasked every night to bars, restaurants and huge events where there are no restrictions, masks of vaxx requirements. Everyone has to constantly evaluate their own personal comfort and risk levels, be it due to family circumstances, work requirements, etc. But the internet only amplifies the worst scolds from both ends, so it ends up feeling like if you aren't doing the former (sealing yourself at home), the only alternative assumption made by others is that you must simply be proceeding with reckless abandon. At the other end, the careless, selfish assholes act like any step to protect yourself is "giving up your freedoms" or "refusing to live your life". It all gets so exhausting.

I mean, I was demanded to go back to work at the start of August and have been back in an open plan office since, so I had no choice but to give up a little control there, though I still wear a KN95 mask every day (and thankful that I can afford them!) and really tread carefully in crowded situations. And once my son went back, well, there's another unavoidable "weak point" in our bubble. There is no perfect way to proceed through this mess and a little compassion goes a long way, I guess. And other than people who blatantly dismiss the real concerns of others and act dangerously, I try to keep it all in mind and not be a scold.

On another note, I don't know about you, but my social media feeds are just lousy with show and tour cancellation updates (Guided by Voices and Wolves in the Throne Room being the latest two that just came across).

Thanks for this Neanderthal and jon.

YES -- most people are BOTH "living life" AND "taking reasonable personally calibrated precautions that contribute to mitigating the crisis rather than pretending there's no crisis."

But boring muddy reasonable accommodation like that doesn't get clicks and so what we see shared is "in REAL America we don't wear masks yeeeeeeeeeehaw, suck it you neurotic cucks" and "keep your kid home from school if you don't want them dead, now and forever"

Anyway, definitely take a shit though, that's solid advice

so to speak

Booming post, Neanderthal.

I stocked up on Binax tests at my CVS, where they were, I must say, plentiful.

Do you think animals noticed that humans had retreated?

Don't tell my turkey sandwich.

To add to my earlier anecdotal data, there are tests out there, just definitely getting harder. I walked to the local CVS at lunch and they had some of the Binax tests, but you could only purchase one box per transaction. Bought two boxes, but didn't want to push my luck since I was already getting the stinkeye from people behind me in line for running two.

Anyway, Chicago isn't cleared out just yet, guess it's hit or miss.

my local Walgreens has the FlowFlex tests that are popular overseas for 9.95 a box. I bought two there and I have two coming from CVS on order.

there is also a local lab that does free testing that has kinda been a godsend to me as they never have lines, but I just went there the other day to do a test and while it wasn't a 'huge' wait , I can tell people are more aware of it now and I am betting I can't bank on them being my go-to anymore. it's literally in walking distance from my house.

I'm taking my kid for her booster at Costco in 45 minutes, curious if they have tests there.

costco has the cheapest rapid tests in america if they have stock! fill yer boots!

Id say, now im no expert, that covid restrictions will likely continue until the pandemic thats killed millions upon millions has finished, now im no expert

In light of that, man alive jr can just manage with whatever simply intolerable conditions are being imposed for the moment

Im no expert now

― fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Friday, December 17, 2021 1:29 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

There is no "has finished." That's the point.

man alive, for months you've pretended to lie on a fainting couch as you agonize over this COVID development and that imposition it makes on your life. You have made clear what choices you and your family have made. Why you keep posting here when no one wants to hear it convinces me (a) you want a cookie from the rest of us as a reward or (b) you're no different than the conservative trolls on Twitter.

Either way, you have shitty politics and grotesque timing. Go away.

man alive, post another graph of the onset of your brain worms then leave us the fuck alone.

fuck man, yes there is, it’s when covid becomes endemic, most people have covid-fighting t-cells, the average case’s symptoms are much milder, it becomes something closer to a seasonal cold/flu, and there is no longer a constant threat of overwhelming health systems, which negatively effects everyone with a body

it’s maddening that you keep pretending you’ve never heard this when I’ve seen at least 3 people patiently and even-handedly explain this to you in detail

xxp

saving for this thread as it's less "news" and more "OMG" but....not something I've seen immunologist Muge Cevik say before

from this article - https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/17/preliminary-laboratory-data-hint-at-what-makes-omicron-the-most-superspreading-variant-yet/

Çevik isn’t so sure these types of interventions can alter Omicron’s meteoric trajectory at this point. “There’s just not enough time,” she said. That’s why she thinks the best strategy is to get boosted immediately with an additional dose of a Covid vaccine. Studies have shown that Omicron has an easier time than previous variants at infecting vaccinated people, but that booster shots restore immune protection. “We’re all going to get infected with Omicron. At this moment, what’s important is whether you’re vaccinated or not when you’re exposed to the virus.”

threads exploding on Twitter now with scientists msging each other and basically saying "there isn't enough time, these NPIs will probably just slow it down a teeny bit and not much else".

xpost to caek, No covid test here as far as I can tell. online they sell the PCR tests that you take with a witness.

here's some bad news for those of us with under 5s

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/17/world/covid-omicron-vaccines/in-a-trial-pfizer-biontechs-low-dose-shot-did-not-provoke-an-adequate-immune-response-in-2-to-5-year-olds

(it's not actually that bad, they have a plan and it sounds like this delays things by literally a couple of months and turns it into a 3 jab series (which it should always have been))

seeing how contagious it is and then seeing shit like this

SPOILER-FREE: Audience reactions to #SpiderManNoWayHome pic.twitter.com/IBtqguyBfw

— Spider-Man: No Way Home News (@spideysnews) December 17, 2021

Yeah, it was depressing to hear about the sold out screenings everywhere, just so many terrible factors lining up right now.

Thanks nicole

I have the energy tbh but not the desire to coddle man alive on his extended bullshit trip acting like this worldwide epidemic has inconvenienced only him and enough. is. enough.

Not that i love the doomposting but fuck me its actually astonishing to see a person posting here in all earnestness with such appallingly callow self-absorption in these circumstances

Love and cuddles to all, mind you, be kind out there

Omicron seems to be taken hold in my work, one person I work with directly is down with it, and three others I know have it, that's only the ones I know about. They're still expecting us to come into work though.

um can we all take a moment to realise that YOUN just posted???

hi youn!

trader joe's this afternoon was an absolute zoo, hardly anyone was masked, utah mormon family little shits running around everywhere. the first time since late last year i've been freaked out about grocery shopping, and i just got my booster a few days ago.

Shouting argument with my parents (vaccinated and boosted) about my nieces, no hope of getting vaccinated. Dad quoted a quack on a radio station he didn't want to name ("What does it matter -- Republican or Democrat, it's the same!") who said the vaccine causes infertility in girls. Cite the science, I kept saying. Give me data. When I said, well, I work for a Research I institute responsible for releasing the COVID info the community (including him and Mom) depend on, he said, "And that's accurate?" On saying there's a likelihood they'll get COVID he said, fine, better that than being infertile (I'm sure he'd have said the same thing if quackery showed men could be infertile).

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do when my nieces, sis, and bro-in-law return from Ohio visiting the other grandparents. I can't so much as suggest, "Hey, get an antigen test before we get together to exchange gifts." What am I supposed to do? I'm fucked.

And my parents are people, let me add, who mask everywhere.

anti-lockdown protests in london today. i wonder if the surge in cases it results in will cause an actual lockdown?

pub owner on tv this morning saying she'd made sure all her staff were in last night because she expected it was going to be busy. also wasn't compensating people who had booked and then cancelled in the light of omicron. it was quite o_O

"'Major incident' declared in London over Omicron variant"

twitter is saying, already

Given the test backlog that 90k positive tests is probably, what, 10, 20% of the actual amount?

I know several people who have now tested positive. All mild or no symptoms a week in. When I say mild, I mean like runny nose, bit of a cough. Kind of thing you’d come into work for. How many people think they just have colds?

I have had a runny nose today, I think it is just a histamine assault from my wine consumption & being in glasshouses with various plants but obv extra paranoid since I was contacted by test & trace as a close contact of a +ve case. The daily rapid tests I have to do keep coming up -ve which is good because I still have to go to work

Alfred, I have it on good authority that there is no covid in Ohio. It's so safe that my friend on her way back right now says no one even wears masks.

Got tested yesterday — new free site near where I live, no crush or wait possibly reflecting SF’s generally good state but likely other factors as well — and already got results back, negative, so yay. Wasn’t expecting to have it but with plans on to see my parents next weekend I’m not taking chances, even if we’re all boosted. Will do one more test on Wednesday; until then I have a few last social things on my plate — haircut today, hanging with a visiting friend tomorrow and the MST3K live show Monday — but will be N95ing it the whole time. Figured Spider-man Thursday afternoon was the last movie I’d see but I’ve had luck being the only person at some screenings and will look to see if I can’t make that happen a bit. After I’m back from Xmas at my folks I’ll just play everything by ear cautiously.