HBO's Succession - Season 2 and Beyond

yeah those scenes where he’s regressing into childhood are so good, his physicality & everything is just 👌🏻💔

not sure why ppl are downplaying the tom betrayal ... logan genuinely didn't expect his kids to unite against him, tom told him they were, so Logan got in touch w his ex wife before it was too late for the kids to get to her and let her know what they were doing

I think you're right, but how do we know that? The show wasn't clear on this point. Everyone's assuming that Logan only got on the phone to Caroline when he heard from Tom that the siblings were on their way. But it's also possible he was already striking the deal with Caroline before he got the call from Tom. He knew he needed her backing to do the deal with Matsson. The siblings coming over to his villa couldn't have prevented any of it.

joyce carol is absolutely right

xp or could he have done it after they arrived anyway? The relative urgency also wasn't clear.

its a seriously dicey situation and tom made a thoughtful call, maybe it works out without him but it did work out with him, and hes on the team he played ball and chipped in

the kids really got their comeuppance for not maintaining relationships this ep

Shiv must be kicking herself for calling Tom from the car and giving him the lowdown on what they were planning. There was no need for her to do that.

she was probably excited to take down dad, so it was a personal call and not a business one, even tho it was about biz

For a brief moment, I wondered whether the plan would accidentally blow up because Tom would tell Greg, who would tell the contessa, who would tell [?]. I hadn't counted on Tom being calculating.

who would tell [?]

the sitting King of Luxembourg, who in an amazingly unexpected reveal is Greg's grandpa

not sure why ppl are downplaying the tom betrayal ... logan genuinely didn't expect his kids to unite against him, tom told him they were, so Logan got in touch w his ex wife before it was too late for the kids to get to her and let her know what they were doing

I think you're right, but how do we know that? The show wasn't clear on this point. Everyone's assuming that Logan only got on the phone to Caroline when he heard from Tom that the siblings were on their way. But it's also possible he was already striking the deal with Caroline before he got the call from Tom. He knew he needed her backing to do the deal with Matsson. The siblings coming over to his villa couldn't have prevented any of it.

― joni mitchell jarre (anagram), Thursday, December 16, 2021 3:48 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

in a way its ironic the sibs are so under logan's thumb that they rush to confront him when the thoughtful move would be to go straight to caroline prob

not entirely important and perhaps even JCOatesish to point this out but the deep complex drama here is nicely summed up by kendall's "what will you do with 4 or 5 more bils? put them in a pile with your other bils?" line.

Logan, for all his cutthroat sociopathy is still entirely accurate in his thinking that he has a lineup of halfwit spoonfed brats that are owed nothing in this process. The grand tragedy that is this HORRIBLE BETRAYAL is an old asshole selling a corporation instead of handing it over to a group of kids who have not proven themselves capable of managing any single element of the company. Ken is a borderline personality, shiv is amoral and riddled with poor judgment, connor is a nimrod and roman is fundamentally weak and incapable (how soon we forget the space shuttle debacle). Tom is showing up as maybe the only capable member of the entourage, able to muster Greg's loyalty and evade shiv and properly support logan; I'm voting for him for daddy's kiss.

"are you touching me! this man is groping the guests! you do not have my permission! you do not have my permission to touch me!"

^^ lots of truth there - xpost

none of these guys can wrest control of the company from an increasingly irrelevant and fading elderly lear; they would be demolished in an open market

xxp That is such a cop out.

― DJI, Tuesday, December 14, 2021 2:34 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

and agree w everyone else who said its obviously not a cop out -- these characters are written w a degree of realism, they're not supposed to be quipsters. (aside from roman, who obviously is supposed to have that characterization)

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Thursday, December 16, 2021 1:55 AM (fourteen hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm just saying it's inconsistent. Or maybe it's just that Tom is cleverer than the Roy kids.

It takes maybe the biggest suspension of disbelief to buy that the kids actually care this much about running the company. I know they have their putative motivations (proving their mettle, winning daddy's approval, etc), but it's also like, why not do literally anything else?

(yes Joyce Carol Oates I understand this is a television show and that it's the entire premise)

i think about that all the time.

if i had their money i would hire some folks to teach me new skills, give some away, buy a house or two, and fuck right off

Logan: "Fuck off Waterface"
Waterface: "Can do, Dad, see you at Xmas."

xp I'm just saying it's inconsistent. Or maybe it's just that Tom is cleverer than the Roy kids.

Tom only needs to seek Logan's approval; the kids are always stuck on trying to find his love.

xp
I find it pretty believable given the extreme narcissism of Logan, the self-absorption of Caroline and the way dynastic enterprises tend to work

Marcia sums the dynamic up pretty well in season 1 when she tells Shiv to fuck off.

"He made you a playground, and you think it’s a whole world. Go out and see how you like it."

I'm just saying it's inconsistent. Or maybe it's just that Tom is cleverer than the Roy kids.

― DJI, Thursday, December 16, 2021 12:02 PM (twenty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

idk if tom is cleverer than the roy kids but he definitely is the kind of guy who would workshop greg insults in his spare time

but it's also like, why not do literally anything else?

Years ago I spent a year working for the daughter of a very rich television executive. She had a small reality TV/documentary production company that never came close to getting anything made in the year I worked there. As her assistant and office manager, I spent my time photocopying press packets and pitches and sending out invitations to lunches that nobody ever responded to, and trying to get meetings with executives who did not want to talk to her. Her dad died about two years later, and she closed the company, gave up the office, and never worked again. I don't know if she was genuinely worried that a too-leisurely lifestyle might provoke him into writing her out of the will, or if she wanted him to see her in a positive light as a hard-working person, but I think about her a lot when I watch Succession.

It takes maybe the biggest suspension of disbelief to buy that the kids actually care this much about running the company. I know they have their putative motivations (proving their mettle, winning daddy's approval, etc), but it's also like, why not do literally anything else?

― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, December 16, 2021 12:14 PM (twenty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol yeah whos ever heard of people desiring power, oh well guess thats tv for ya

if i had their money i would hire some folks to teach me new skills, give some away, buy a house or two, and fuck right off

I think a key to really engaging with this show is recognizing that, no, you wouldn't

i'm pretty engaged with the show and yes i 100% would

i understand none of the kids would (except connor)

The grand tragedy that is this HORRIBLE BETRAYAL is an old asshole selling a corporation instead of handing it over to a group of kids who have not proven themselves capable of managing any single element of the company.

otm, as much of a weird asshole as Mattson is, he is demonstrably more capable of running a company than any of the Roy kids. Logan doesn't respect any of his kids, he thinks they're fuckups and jerks, and he's not wrong. But also he made them that way, therein the trap that the kids can't escape, or haven't been able to yet — none of them knows what they actually want, they're just chasing Logan's ring.

Yeah, when they offered Kendall the buyout for $2B or something, I knew he wouldn't take it, but also, why wouldn't he take it? I think all the kids know they wouldn't be able to survive as anything other than a do-nothing WayStar exec, but think that means they should be the boss.

i understand none of the kids would (except connor)

― a (waterface), Thursday, December 16, 2021 12:55 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

sure, but connor ran for president

yeah but he's got his fuck off palace in NM and he gets teased by the others as having never worked

connor doesnt hold any shares

yeah, Connor is liquid. like the water he purchased in season 1.

(he will share some with his niece after it's worth more than gold)

connors got no votes thats why he cannot be considered the eldest son

if i had their money i would hire some folks to teach me new skills, give some away, buy a house or two, and fuck right off

― a (waterface), Thursday, December 16, 2021 12:15 PM (fifty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think a key to really engaging with this show is recognizing that, no, you wouldn't

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, December 16, 2021 12:50 PM (fourteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i'm pretty engaged with the show and yes i 100% would

― a (waterface), Thursday, December 16, 2021 12:55 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

if you were raised in a media dynasty you wouldnt be you

i have their money and im nothing like them!

well ok i'm a bit of a shiv

classic shiv

i am splitting hairs here but i said if I had their money

but yes if I was raised in a media dynasty i would be different, but that's not what I said.

I think shiv is the "hardest worker" out of the core three kids

well who cares what you would do with their money, however if you do somehow get it i think you should give it to me, you clearly dont appreciate the possibilities

lol what if this show was called Splitting Heirs

thats the 80s sitcom version

haha

the spin-off where they all work at the same Target

greg is their manager of the store

tom reigonal manager

ime, a family that owns a few burger kings in a midwestern city has a bowling alley in their basement

some real milkshake potential

so basically Schitt's Creek