Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

I'm glad we're having this conversation.

I think that for me, I know when I'm taking risks, and I avoid doing so as much as possible, but it's not April 2020 anymore, and at a certain point, I need to allow the little joy in this world into my life where I can. Sometimes that involves drinking too many whiskeys and singing showtunes in a piano bar filled with other queer people.

Not every night, or even every week, but once a month or so? They require proof of boosters at the door? Sure.

Omicron requires a new vaccine now?

Hopefully not? But there have been a number of stories about it because Moderna have said they are already working on one to combat it.

Not a new vaccine. An updated version of the existing one that targets Omicron

You can safely ignore anyone who claims that any variant will render vaccines useless (or that microneutralization assays to evaluate variant antibody escape will result in emergence of said variants). https://t.co/Cr4M5fy6yd

— Dr. Angela Rasmussen (@angie_rasmussen) December 6, 2021

afics, Moderna doesn't have to sink a lot of money into developing an omicron booster at this point. the real money comes into it when they have to ramp up large-scale production. they wouldn't be doing that until they've done trials and are confident about approval and large-scale demand. there's no reason why they wouldn't be working on an omicron booster. if omicron is a bust, they're not out much if they shut down the project.

This is, I guess, a biotech CEO, citing an analysis by an astronomy student, with no methods or data referenced, and some bizarre trends visible. Naturally, everybody is freaking out about it. https://t.co/RHkqGy4g34

— Dr Ed (@notdred) December 6, 2021

xp OK fine you found somebody who thought we were back to square zero with vaccines but it's somebody with <1000 followers who thinks omicron is a South African biowarfare experiment so....

I feel like most of the time, I am OK hanging out with my wife and cat at home, watching Netflix and going on walks and getting takeout. Well before the pandemic, my social life had dwindled to the point that I wasn't doing much else, anyway. But there are certain things I miss: movies in theaters, drinking in bars, impromptu hangouts. If I were living alone and starved for attention/entertainment, I'd probably venture out and take more risks. As it is, I can't convince myself that those are risks worth taking.

I guess the problem now, though, is that I don't know when they ever will be. I foolishly assumed that once vaccinations started, then it would just be a matter of time before the virus ceased to be a matter of concern, and that I would gradually ease back into a pre-pandemic lifestyle. But that obviously didn't happen. If only I knew when all of this would end, I could at least determine whether I was okay waiting that amount of time.

― jaymc, Monday, December 6, 2021 8:23 PM (two hours ago)

This for me too, pretty much. I thought vaccines were the way out.
Perhaps counter-intuitively, the fact that I'm almost guaranteed to catch it via my kids' school etc has made me think that some of the harder sacrifices I've been making aren't really worth it? But then I'm talking about a small variance in what I'm allowing myself to do, rather than making serious life changes/travelling frequently etc - like I'll move my threshold down one notch. If Covid can wait until after I get boosted some time next year, that'd be grand.

Each single event you pass up probably isn't worth "getting covid" but cumulatively - missing 50, 100 events so you avoid 'the one', is a bit of a different question.

otm, it's not always missing the one thing, it's the cumulative thing of missing many of them. When we ordered take-out Saturday night, it was from one of our favorite places and I didn't feel it all a "loss" by not going in to eat there instead. But when I realize we haven't eaten there in damn near two years now, I do feel a bit of a loss because we just really enjoyed the staff and the vibe of being in there - sticking around for an extra drink or two, trying something unique because we heard someone else order it, etc. It's those small things that don't really weigh into any single decision not to do something, but after long enough you do realize how much you miss it.

I think key beyond just dealing with omicron (no matter how potent it is) is getting the booster train rolling for those under 18 (at least in the US). All those teens were vaxxed last spring/early summer, which means their immunity is fading (even though iirc there was some research that showed the vaccine was even more effective in that age group than it was in adults). That indicates a pretty wide window of vulnerability on the near horizon: winter, omicron and another huge wave of fading vaxxes in that teen demographic.

We've been easing into activities again. We go into everything cautious, of course, but there are also frankly fewer people out and about still. I don't know how I would feel in a huge crowd, though of course on that front 90% of America has already just jumped right into it and my own perspective have been skewed by my particular locality.

Yeah, I hope boosters for the 13-18 year-olds comes very soon. Talked to a friend the other night who said since Thanksgiving their fully vaxxed 13 year-old went from the family member they were least worried about to the one they were most cautious about.

Fucking ERIC TOPOL of all people shared the Tweet being criticized in this thread:

This is, I guess, a biotech CEO, citing an analysis by an astronomy student, with no methods or data referenced, and some bizarre trends visible. Naturally, everybody is freaking out about it. https://t.co/RHkqGy4g34

— Dr Ed (@notdred) December 6, 2021

Because the original tweeter is his friend. I'm starting to lose faith in his ability to vet what he shares. Literally every other expert is shitting on the validity of the graphs, but Topol boosted it.

I'm fully boosted at this point and have finally started trying to resume something resembling a "normal" social life but now omicron has me doubting if it's ok to just hang out maskless indoors at a (vax required) bar with friends. Like, I treasure the "normal" feeling of mask-free indoor partying but was already concerned if it was bad etiquette to keep my mask down, knowing that there was no obvious way to signal to everyone there that I'm boosted. Now omicron has me doubting if I should continue to go out at all. Luckily, I don't have any immuno-compromised or unvaxxed people in my circle but I don't want to contribute to the spread. I've got tickets for a gig this Friday that I'm intent on attending but might have to scale back after that. I'm recently single and now living alone so the prospect of another winter of shutdown is even less appealing than before.

I have been living p much normally for the majority of the pandemic (while following the public health mandates as they exist in bc, which aren't super stringent) and I recommend it for fully vaccinated people who are not around immunocompromised people and are in good health. covid isn't going away. there's no reason to think omicron is worse than delta as far as anyone can tell. live a little. if you're double vaxed and boosted covid will probably be pretty light for you if you get it (I just had it, I am back to 100% health, it took just a week).

just out of curiosity, if you were told that you had a 3% chance of death or a lifelong serious health deficit from a purely elective surgical procedure, let's say, removing a birthmark on your neck, would you rate that as "I probably would be fine" and go ahead with it? Or would that seem like more risk than necessary for something you could easily choose to avoid?

I was going to go to a funk band at our local bar and neither my wife nor another friend wanted to go.

just out of curiosity, if you were told that you had a 3% chance of death or a lifelong serious health deficit from a purely elective surgical procedure, let's say, removing a birthmark on your neck, would you rate that as "I probably would be fine" and go ahead with it? Or would that seem like more risk than necessary for something you could easily choose to avoid?

― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, December 6, 2021 4:42 PM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

this isn't even remotely similar odds to a healthy, vaccinated person's risk of dying from covid.

Aimless, you're omitting some factors there. Boostered and went to four shows last week. Not 100% comfortable (or even 85%), but I'm with Jim.

this isn't even remotely similar odds to a healthy, vaccinated person's risk of dying from covid.

― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Monday, December 6, 2021 4:59 PM (thirty-nine seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

on reflection it's probably not even remotely similar odds to a health, unvaccinated person's risk of dying from covid

Yeah, and again, my concern is less my own health and more that now-familiar fear of unknowingly being a vector. The unknowns of omicron have me feeling doubt yet again just as I was starting to feel invulnerable from the booster.

this isn't even remotely similar odds to a healthy, vaccinated person's risk of dying from covid.

true. but that wasn't the question.

ok. yes, it was a trick question.

My kids got their second shots a week ago. In spite of that, I am sympathetic to the reasoning of countries such as Finland who are taking a more cautious approach with 5-11 year olds.

https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-recommends-coronavirus-vaccinations-for-at-risk-children-aged-5-to-11-years-for-the-entire-age-group-require-more-information-on-safety?redirect=%2Fen%2Fweb%2Fthlfi-en%2Fwhats-new&fbclid=IwAR3hCV2YZFqA4nZQGg3GE_KbBBF-IzFHhp5yPTUt3M9vqRhwyvGviWVQBMY

” The main reason why THL does not recommend vaccinations at this point for all children aged 5 to 11 years is that their burden of disease is small. Infections in children of this age are usually mild and severe disease is extremely rare compared to other vaccine-preventable diseases. When the burden of disease is small in one’s own group, very few adverse effects are accepted. If society aims to control the epidemic by vaccinating children who themselves benefit only a little from the vaccinations, having reliable information on safety is even more important”, says Chief Physician at THL, Hanna Nohynek.

My older one was nauseated for a couple of days after shot 2 and then complained briefly of chest pains, which scared me a bit. The other one ran a fever for a day and then was fine. I ultimately chose to get them vaccinated because I want them to have their lives back.

Because I want them to have their lives back and I believe the safety risk is likely very small, to be clear. But like I said, the reaction made me nervous. She was sicker than when she had COVID.

I think it's highly unlikely I'd die of covid. What I have seen in my double-jabbed peers is that it's largely unpredictable whether it'll be a breeze or give you trouble longer term. Even a few months of being exhausted enough not to be able to work, with unknown longer implications, is bad news for me. Plus passing it on to family.

right that’s the thing with kids. the risk is vanishingly small but i’m visiting my at-risk mom for christmas and everybody is vaxxed to the maxx apart from my 10-y-o who isn’t vaxxed at all. feels like a pretty big chink in the armor.

Apparently everyone in my wife's family was too scared to ask if my sister-in-law's (uk) libertarian leaning husband was vaxxed, and as we're planning on christmas with everyone at my at-risk parents' place it was my responsibility to ask. so i did, and he isn't, and now i'm made to feel like the bad guy for suggesting we might have to cancel christmas based on his garbage choices. he has magnanimously offered to take a pcr test a couple of days before and my parents are ok with this, but still. arsehole.

> feels like a pretty big chink in the armor.

the stickers on the lampposts around here all say that 99.9% of children recover from covid [citation needed] but i've just heard of another double vaxxed friend with kids having to isolate so, yeah, problem.

> he has magnanimously offered to take a pcr test a couple of days before

is it unchristmassy to say i hope it's positive?

I can't pretend I haven't had that thought.

the stickers on the lampposts around here all say that 99.9% of children recover from covid [citation needed] but i've just heard of another double vaxxed friend with kids having to isolate so, yeah, problem.

no, i mean that he could give it to my mom. i know he'll recover from covid unless he's unbelievably unlucky. the issue is the transmission. this is why i'm a little confused about the foot-dragging from the UK government. it's a transmission vector that remains absolutely wide open.

yeah, that's what i mean. the little darlings may recover easily (apart from those 1000 out of every million) but they are passing it on to parents and guardians.

yeah, it's why I'm less inclined now to wring my hands over whether I should be meeting a friend in an empty cafe when I've got kids mixing with other kids daily who go on to test positive.

Had some of their best friends test positive but so far we remain negative...

I think I'm gonna maintain my recently tightened practices until I go see my parents (both over 75) next week, and then recalibrate after that, as I don't think I have any non-incidental contact with old people planned after this visit

i'm curious to see how much viral load is involved w/ this virus and how much being vaccinated reduces it, if at all. the knock on Delta was that being vaccinated didn't really reduce the viral load for an infected person for the first few days, but it did clear the infection (and thus stop the vector from transmitting) sooner than in an unvaccinated person, by several days.

but the data of boosted individuals for Delta *did* show a lower viral load and a smaller likelihood of transmitting it. will that carry over to Omicron? I'm guessing "no", and i'm going to go with base assumption that it's like Delta was for unboosted until I hear otherwise.

my dad is still in the hospital pending possible transition to a rehab facility (again), and I'm a wee bit nervous keeping him there if/when these facilities begin to fill up again (which they're not yet in FL).

My older one was nauseated for a couple of days after shot 2 and then complained briefly of chest pains, which scared me a bit.

this must have been scary but fwiw there have been literally zero (0) cases of myocarditis in response to the 5m doses administered to 5-11 year olds in the US in the past month.

No idea of the actual numbers or even if it is teen hyperbole at work, but my daughter told me a "ton" of kids were out today with covid.

Your average 11 year old is 80 pounds so that's only about 25 kids.

xp - there certainly seems to be something going on. We've had two staffers in a week just at the elementary school leading to a quarantine of a total of 30 kids including (joy!) my 6 year old! And guess who it was? Her teacher! Who I now suspect is unvaxed, because she posts pro-life shit on facebook and is married to a cop. And my older one has kids in her class that are quarantined right now as well. And I'm losing track, but I think there was at least one other staffer who didn't lead to a quarantine and one other student who led to a few students quarantining. I don't think there was ever a point with this much COVID-related activity at the school since they first went back in person last year.

My kids are a week out from fully vaxed and the new policy is they won't have to quarantine anymore at that point.

Gettin' my booster tomorrow.

partner gets hers tomorrow, i'm going for friday.
not sure if i get the shot in my already useless and badly surgically beaten up left arm or my good right one?

You can actually have them put it anywhere! I know someone who got it in her breasts, and another who got the shots in his leg.

But I'd get it in the useless arm. My arm hurt the most, and felt a little "off" even a week after I got my booster

ime the thing to consider is not “which arm do I use most” but “which side do I sleep on”

yeah, i guess i'll get it in the same damn damaged arm i've been beating to shit anyway

I've got an aunt who has cancer and has had to ban her own kids from her house because they are a bunch of selfish little morons with anti-vax/anti-mask brainworms. The only person she trusts is my mum, who will take a rapid antigen test on a morning before she will enter her home, otherwise she restricts it grocery doorstep drop-offs, or distanced visits. I'm sort of impressed with how my mum started off the early days of the pandemic with a quite ridiculous and dismissive anti-lockdown mentality ("arr it's just like flu, and that kills loads of people") and with how much she's wised up since.

here we go again:

New - one source tells me new Covid rules are imminent, a version of Plan B inc home working, as early as tomorrow

— Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) December 8, 2021

They can't even get dead cats right

Here's a question, UK specific in terms of logistics but I guess open to all from a moral pov:

If all goes well I'll be spending x-mas back in Portugal; this would mean my mum arriving from a different part of Portugal, me and the wife flying in from London, and my wife's family coming in from France. Both of our mums being 60+ my ideal scenario for this would be for everyone to have gotten their booster - but with the NHS announcing they only want the whole population boostered by the end of January and having had my 2nd shot in late July I think it's unlikely I'll get a slot until I have to leave on the 16th. Would it be worth it to try for a walk-in centre? And if that's a possibility, would taking advantage of it make me a cue-jumping cunt?

at this point i think one does what makes one comfortable.

if u wanna jump the line i support you