Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

Did he cut himself shaving?!

excelsior true believers

Did he cut himself shaving?!

― bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Tuesday, November 23, 2021 4:25 PM bookmarkflaglink

Only in three possible outcomes

The less said about this Hawkeye show, the better.

True, because based on those first two episodes already up it fucking rules and everyone should let themselves be surprised. But there is one music cue in particular that I lost my mind over.

Glad you enjoyed it. I feel like I’ve been punk’d, lol. But maybe it’s on me—I’ve never seen any of the other shows, just the movies.

i enjoyed those first 2 eps, looking forward to more!

neds nerdy easter egg was quite nice - i wasn’t familiar & had to look it up but at least had a sense of who it was

I just read some run-throughs of the many Marvel/MCU easter eggs in these first two eps. (I caught more of the MCU ones than the deep Marvel references, even though I’m not much of an MCU-er).

It seems like they’re setting up a West Coast Avengers (or at least teasing the idea).

I strongly urge Kate-interested parties to read the Kelly Thompson/Leonardo Romero series from 2016. I really like it a lot. You can get the whole run by reading this book plus this book.

(It takes place some time after the Fraction series, but builds upon the Kate storyline contained in the L.A. Woman volume)

Seconded. Kelly Thompson is one of the best current Marvel writers imo.

First two eps were ... fine. But I assume things will pick up.

https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/new-spider-man-marvel-trilogy-tom-holland-confirmed

Spider-man trilogy? So I guess that confirms there *will* be three Spider-Men in the new one after all.

It would be hilarious if the new one does have Holland/Garfield/MacGuire (law firm or Motown writing team?) but wastes 90 minutes showing their origin stories three times.

I know they want to make him the new centre of the MCU after RDJ's departure but are people that interested in so much Tom Holland? have yet to see him carry a movie that wasn't Spidey

I really surprised how my interest in these marvel phases has completely waned, post Downey, it's appalling to me how key he was at setting the performance tone for the early years and I don't think they will top those movies, with Holland or any other actor, Downey brought a humour and humanity to these flights of fancy that doesn't seem to be emulatable in the newer phase, even with similar writing and 'comedic moments', etc

"Hasn't carried a movie that they're not starring in" is true for everyone, though? My mistaken impression that the next Guardians of the Galaxy movie would feature Thor would have been a challenge to it.

I don't know if my own interest has waned so much as reverted to how I initially watched the Marvel movies. That is, I saw Iron Man in theatres, but skipped Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2 and Thor until later. I think I wasn't particularly interested in the movies as more than just something to see on the big screen until "Captain America" and "Guardians of the Galaxy," which were much more character driven and better made/written than the aforementioned, which in turn helped keep me invested, certainly when they started ramping up the bigger arc with "The Avengers."

All the rest of them I've seen in theatres until "Eternals," but post-"Endgame" the MCU seems to be mostly picking up the pieces and setting things up for ... who knows. A bunch of mini big narrative arcs? A couple of parallel Big Bad events? No idea, but the movies and TV shows are clearly not there yet. There's Kang, there's Secret Invasion, there's parallel universes and time travel shenanigans, there's more cosmic stuff being teed up, the upcoming films seemed stuffed with iconic superheroes both new and returning, there's the Fantastic Four ...

"Hasn't carried a movie that they're not starring in" is true for everyone, though?

oh i was talking abt non-MCU roles - I meant that Holland has yet to establish himself as the kind of RDJ-like star that audiences might want to go see outside of Spidey/MCU.

To be fair he hasn't been in much else, but he was outshone by a ridiculously silly R-Pattz in "The Devil All The Time" and while I don't know anyone who's seen "Cherry" or "Chaos Walking", consensus seems to be that they were both pretty bad.

The teen drama vibes of the Spidey movies are also starting to grate, so not sure it's a great idea to bank three more films (plus appearances elsewhere) centered around Holland's arc.

Well, he'll presumably be out of high school before long.

I mean, no-one wanted to see The Judge, and Doolittle was pushed enough that it took in $200m and was still a flop - I think it might be an idea to wait and see how Holland does in Uncharted.

Also "only good in the MCU" is not that much of a problem when we're discussing whether will people want to see him in the MCU - Chris Evans was good in Knives Out, and a lot of people went to see it for what it was, but no-one surely thought it would do Avengers numbers.

Hawkeye Ep. 3 is significantly better than the first two! (They've all had different writers & directors; maybe this one got the team right?) The first 10 mins. or so are great; the action scenes / superheroics are well done; and the Clint/Kate banter (and dialogue generally) is better than before. The centerpiece is a long, satisfying car chase (....albeit the kind where the streets are conveniently cleared of other cars).

I just wish the acting were better. I don't remember what Renner was like in the Avengers movies, but he seriously acts in this thing like he's running his scenes, half distracted, in between rolling calls.

He's generally a good actor, too.

and Steinfeld is... OK. I've never seen her in anything (other than her voice acting for Spider-Gwen). I guess I assumed she'd be a really good actor, due to her award nominations for that True Grit movie, etc.

I already liked the first two Hawkeye episodes a lot, with very little complaints, save for the whole thing about him promising to be home for Christmas & running late (do appreciate that at least he's not withholding anything from his wife) & the LARP event coming off as pretty lame and unauthentic (or are there people who LARP like this?). But I really loved episode three, especially that car chase! I don't have any issues with the acting myself, I actually thought Renner did a very strong and convincing job showing Clint's hearing loss & his state of mind whenever Ronin or Black Widow are referenced. Hailee Steinfeld is a good fit for Kate Bishop. I'd seen her in Bumblebee before and also thought she carried that starring role well.

How amazing would it be if Maya's uncle/the big boss turns out to be Vincent D'Onofrio's Kingpin from Daredevil - would fit with Echo's story from the comics, and it would be kinda cool to have the Netflix series properly find their way into the MCU, especially with one of the highlights from those series, but maybe also kinda confusing at this point?.

Funny seeing Biggs out of Reservation Dogs after that. Can't remember what I've seen him in outside of that. So is it like a John Ratzenberger in Cheers thong where he's going to be known for a role he's playing against type.
Anyway, enjoying this.

re Netflix tie-in please no

re Zahn McClarnon, he had a memorable episode in Westworld and owned the final scene of Fargo s2

Pretty certain they're setting up a Big Twist re: Kate's mom – so much so that it won't be much of a surprise when it arrives! – but we'll see. They've already deviated significantly from Kate's comic book background re: her parents, and our knowledge of the comic storyline may be coloring my expectations.

my understanding is that the netflix defenders are being shuffled back into the mix? though maybe not iron fist lol

in the words of Doc from Deadwood, “for what conceivable purpose?”

Netflix Marvel straight up sucked with the exception of a couple of hallway fights and a couple of good casting choices. Best I can imagine is a throwaway multiverse gag.

I liked most of the first seasons. And I was thinking the other day the Punisher showrunners and cast could do a good job with Ennis's "Widowmaker" arc, a story I still think about pretty often.

I dutifully watched all the other Netflix series, after watching Punisher’s stint in Daredevil, I had seen enough of that character and all the gore surrounding him to know it wasn’t for me. The part I remember was Punisher getting a 5/8” drill bit through his foot and then running around later in the episode.

but after

I did like the majority of the Netflix series a lot, even Iron Fist (I actually never understood the hate for that one), just thought that the pacing wasn't great for most of the series (usually 10 episodes max worth of storyline drawn out over 13 episodes) and disliked the lack of character progress allowed for Jessica Jones (also thought JJ S2 and S3 were the weakest of the bunch). But I would not expect parts of those series to 'return' to the MCU and would actually have very mixed feelings if they did, years after they aired, especially when there was always -so- little connection between the series and the movies. On the other hand, several (most?) roles were very well cast so I'd surely cheer if I'd see someone like Charlie Cox, Mike Coulter or Jon Bernthal (or the guy I mentioned in hidden text upthread) again, properly within the MCU.

Where do we talk about new (Sony) Spider stuff? https://variety.com/2021/film/news/spider-man-into-the-spider-verse-2-sequel-teaser-part-one-1235126305/

Ned posted a video on the Spider-Verse thread

Nine years ago, for some weird reason, this panel was actually published.
With @mattfraction @MDHollingsworth and @ChrisEliopoulos pic.twitter.com/RSIODm8FcI

— David Aja (@davaja) December 6, 2021

Speaking of the defunct TV shows – Feige has sort-of confirmed this point:

If you were to see Daredevil in upcoming things, Charlie Cox, yes, would be the actor playing Daredevil. Where we see that, how we see that, when we see that, remains to be seen.

fuuuuck that Hawkeye run is so good

finally watched the first ep of the show, it was not good

why, that contradicts what the previous poster said! zounds!

think he meant the comic

why, I'm stupid! zounds!

OK, caught up with this, there's too much talking and I don't know why they brought back the Pedro Pascal character from WW84 to be the shady fiancee but the way that car chase was shot was ace. Downside: there is just no way to make arrow-shooting work as a mode of close combat in an action show though I appreciate the effort put into it here. I often find myself not really understanding where we are or why the characters are doing what they're doing. But we're basically enjoying it.

Tony Dalton don't look that much like Pedro yo

Whoever he is, he plays the part the way Pascal played the part in WW84, I have no idea if they look alike

I liked the arrow shooting! At least the semi-realistic shooting (though the fanciful arrow stuff was fine too).

he’s Tony Dalton aka Lalo from Better Call Saul! he’s great imo. doesnt seem like Pascals character in WW84 at all imo, bears no relation iirc

yeah I don't see it. the part is a bit transparently mustache-twirling but that's not on the actor, who is always a treat.

and yes, I meant the Fraction/Aja Hawkeye but I appreciate the elements of that that they've worked into the show including "the car chase but haha it's the wrong car" etc