Joe Money, Joe Problems: the November 2021 U.S. Politics Thread

I guess that's cool unless you put it in the context of black people getting 5 years in prison for illegally voting by mistake

Oh great, the ever popular "That is not Scott Fairlamb, that’s not who I am" confession.

If you can’t handle me at my punching a Capitol cop you don’t deserve me at my not punching a Capitol cop.

Sad lol, but assuming Rittenhouse hasn't already been set free, did I just see that the psycho judge's ringtone went off in the middle of the trial and it was (reportedly? allegedly?) that Lee Greenwood song?

Haven't been paying as close attention this week, but it certainly seems to be a common line that the prosecution did a pretty shitty job. Surprising to me that they'd put him on the stand at this point, seems like allowing themselves to fumble.

I think I heard that since his is largely a self-defense claim it would be kind of weird *not* to take the stand.

Which makes sense, but I also saw some (alleged, self-proclaimed) experts saying that would normally be true, but that the prosecution's case was so weak that there was a greater chance of it doing more harm than good.

I keep seeing people saying the prosecution is weak and blowing the case, but I can't seem to find any explanation of where they are going wrong. What's the story?

Essentially it sounds like they've just done a sloppy job in general, but specifically didn't do a great job with the survivor's testimony, from what I've read it only strengthened the self-defense argument. But I should emphasize this is just what I've gleaned via twitter and reddit quick takes.

Prosecutors in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial rested their case Tuesday after presenting more than 20 witnesses, many of whom explicitly or inadvertently made statements that supported the defense's self-defense case.

Also the judge just seems to be perpetually short and pissy with the prosecution.

(xp - thanks caek! was looking for a more concise summary)

Yeah, the one guy who lost his bicep/arm said he could see why Rittenhouse might have feared for his life.

yeah it really seems like he's gonna walk. really curious how these high-profile cases seem to keep drawing hardline rightwing judges

the whole thing seems fucked to me, even if Rittenhouse did legitimately fear for his life, he still brought an illegally acquired gun across state lines into a zone where violence was occurring and actively engaged in that violence. pretty messed up that you apparently can do that if you think one of the guys might damage a Walgreens or something

I keep seeing people saying the prosecution is weak and blowing the case, but I can't seem to find any explanation of where they are going wrong. What's the story?

The prosecution tried to make an issue of Rittenhouse staying silent (constitutional no-no) and brought up something on cross the judge had ruled wasn't relevant (surefire way to piss off a judge and jury and potentially give Rittenhouse a new trial if he was convicted).

I will be shocked if Rittenhouse gets convicted of the most serious charges.

This sort of shit is *exactly* why I put no faith in the legitimacy of US jurisprudence. What an absolute crock.

Frogbs otm, even if you could determine that he legit felt threatened in the situations he placed himself in, he... placed himself there. I am ot hearing a lot of discussion of that.

Like, is anyone asking: why the fuck were you there anyway? did anyone ask you to be there with your penis gun? No they did not. Was there some reason for you to be there in tactical gear, stalking about looking for someone you could could legally shoot? Sounds like hunting, not self-defense. Ok so you got into one situation where it might be construed as self-defense... well, you know what also might have worked as a self-defense strategy? STAYING THE FUCK HOME.

I have been "defending myself" by avoid life-threatening situations for... let's see... fifty years. There is literally no time at which I've deliberately placed myself in a potentially life-threatening situation, while (just coincidentally) carrying lethal weaponry.

In completely unrelated news I also haven't strolled through alligator-infested swamps while wearing a vest made of raw chicken meat. As a result, I haven't had to defend myself against alligator attacks.

That's not how Law works. There are very specific charges against him, and the judge and/or jury can't just say "well he shouldn't have been in that location at that time, so he should be punished". It's a very blinkered process.

Yeah, I agree with everything you said YMP, but sadly that's not the trial. It fucking sucks, but that's our justice system ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Actually the jury CAN say that lol. But they shouldn't. About 15 yrs ago I was on a jury and the defendant was so obviously an asshole (he was his own attorney even tho had no legal training, so that should give you a sense of his personality) but I was the only juror who didn't immediately say "this guy is a prick, I'm voting guilty" and wanted to discuss whether or not he actually violated his restraining order.

The term 'crocodile tears' (a superficial display of anguish) comes from a medieval belief that crocodiles shed tears of sadness when killing their prey. https://t.co/tkuVCEbBRa

— Merriam-Webster (@MerriamWebster) November 10, 2021

Like, is anyone asking: why the fuck were you there anyway? did anyone ask you to be there with your penis gun? No they did not.

Actually, the prosecution absolutely asked this. They put on the owner of the store and asked him whether he had asked Rittenhouse or anyone else to protect his store. He had not.

i know this clown has no money (?) but surely there's wrongful death suits in the wings, right?

Not watching live, but I'm seeing some stuff on Twitter hinting that his testimony took a turn that is not good for the defense at all. Anyone up to date that can confirm? Or is this just wishful projection?

Lol, or on trying to further keep up, I'm not seeing that the judge may have managed to handwave away that too in his jury instructions? Of fucking course.

Not watching live, but I'm seeing some stuff on Twitter hinting that his testimony took a turn that is not good for the defense at all. Anyone up to date that can confirm? Or is this just wishful projection?

they sort of hit on this today
Like, is anyone asking: why the fuck were you there anyway? did anyone ask you to be there with your penis gun? No they did not. Was there some reason for you to be there in tactical gear, stalking about looking for someone you could could legally shoot?

ask Kyle why he lied to people saying he was a medic and really drilled down on what the hell was he thinking when he killed those people and general made the self defense stance seem a bit wobbly

One of the guys he shot literally was a medic.

I'm seeing he also admitted that one of the people he shot had their hands raised?

if he doesn't get convicted, I hope he gets run over by a speeding cab on his way out of the courtroom

I stumbled onto a right wing radio show today, and some caller was all hand wringy. " I don't want to hurt anyone, but I want my wife and kids to be safe from these rioters." And the host (dunno who) said more or less "I agree, I don't want to hurt anyone, but I have the right to protect my business from rioters!" And I just had to yell in the car, you stupid assholes, this guy was not protecting shit from shit, the dickhead brought an assault riot to a different state uninvited just to patrol the streets, if anything people need and deserve to protect themselves and their businesses from lunatics like him!!! If I saw some dickhead with a big gun outside my place of work in the middle of unrest, the last thing I would assume is he was there for my good.

The guy with his hands raised was iirc the same guy who lost a bicep, who admittedly on the stand he had a gun in his raised hand that was still generally aimed more to Rittenhouse than not, fwiw.

this is so stupid! ok so i can shoot some unarmed guy multiple times, not render help or call 911 but instead run and then concerned "good guys" with or without guns try to stop me from running away and possibly killing shooting more people, i get to shot them too and claim self defense?

i brought a bomb to someone's house once, they freaked out and totally tried to take it from me, so I detonated it to protect myself, and can you believe it, they wanna accuse ME of murder!

If he doesn't get convicted, I hope he gets run over by a speeding cab on his way out of the courtroom

― Cool Im An Situation (Neanderthal), Wednesday, November 10, 2021 6:02 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm rooting for 200 lb stone lady justice statue falls from courthouse frieze and lands on him during press conference.

iirc one of the guys he killed was supposedly (said the prosecutors guy) shot in the back!

this was a little too on the nose tho

Judge Schroeder’s phone rings in the middle of the Rittenhouse trial, and it just happens to be the theme song from the Trump rallies when he walks on stage. Go figure. pic.twitter.com/3LE44QwNkB

— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) November 10, 2021

someone just put Full Metal John Cryor away plz

I saw someone call him Little Honky Boo Hoo.

Look even if he walks free the kid is not gonna have a normal life at all, see how this worked out for George Zimmerman and OJ Simpson

Rittenhouse will go to jail for stealing memorabilia from his trial?

5 yrs since 2016 election and I still am gobsmacked when ""respectable"" adults turn out to be Trumpers

Look even if he walks free the kid is not gonna have a normal life at all, see how this worked out for George Zimmerman and OJ Simpson

― frogbs, Wednesday, November 10, 2021 6:31 PM (twenty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

well, there is one big difference between rittenhouse and zimmerman/oj.

This kid will be a congressman.

It wouldn’t surprise me, sadly.

As someone who lives about a mile from where the pigfaced fucker Kyle Rittenhouse is being tried, I just have to say that this shit is awful and exhausting, and yet not as bad as living through fuckface pig Derek Chauvin's trial prior to moving from Minneapolis.

The prosection has indeed been terrible, and the judge is indeed a rotten fossil of a man, conservative like all the judges in this backwards ass state. There have been parades of threeper trucks through town, Nazi stickers appearing overnight, and a cadre of "supporters" holding vigil in the city park across the street from the courthouse.

I have so many more opinions on this but they're generally just expressions of sad, tired rage and don't really lend anything to the conversation. I moved here for a great job and don't want to grow to hate the place before I've even lived here four months. Lake Michigan is pretty, that's a posi point.

Where are you moving next, so we know what to expect?

(But seriously, on the plus side: New Glarus! Brat Stop! Um ... Tenuta's?)

(Equidistant from Milwaukee and Great America?)

Xp I managed to land on the tenure track, so assuming I don't eff that up (and the conservative troglodytes in the legislature don't defund the UW System) I am not planning on moving anywhere for a good long while.

I don’t get it. If this dude was shooting people, do other people not have the right to confront him with their own guns? Isn’t that what the whole 2nd amendment conservative gun rights movement is all about? The right to defend yourself and others from active shooters, by confronting them with your gun if not straight up shooting them, regardless of whether or not they directly threatened you? Like, if Rittenhouse had shot some dude who had been shooting other people, he would have been a hero, right? But he just shot some people, and then shot someone who was confronting him with a gun for having shot other people, and he’s a hero in this situation too? So basically, he was golden no matter what the fuck he had done.

but see he's a good guy with a gun, the other guy is a bad guy with a gun