Joe Money, Joe Problems: the November 2021 U.S. Politics Thread

yea I agree with treeship too, if things really start getting bad it doesn't seem like there will be a shortage of people willing to make every aspect of their lives uncomfortable

also money would lose its value.

the cultural politics of the republican party are basically anathema to the urban centers of the US, which is where financial and cultural power are concentrated.

I think about this a lot, especially being in one of the many blue-dot red states. GOP legislatures like to wage war on liberal-bastion cities, but there is (or should be) a legitimate goose-golden egg concern there. My guess is you can only go so far in establishing a completely hostile atmosphere toward any kind of progressive thought before it hurts your economy. I don't know where that line is, though.

i don't think this is a a controp, but i think rich people will be fine. they will flee to the most livable areas in a world that is burning, they will gather together and have their own private militia/guard, and they will hide behind walls and multiple layers of security access. it will be worse than before for them, but not nearly as bad as it will be for everyone else.

or hell, maybe they'll just be on the space station

What’s the scenario where money has no value though? Extinction-level apocalypse?

Short of that, a slide into a completely undemocratic authoritarian state leaves the wealthy protected in every way.

"is that the eastern seaboard on fire down there, dear?"
"why, it certainly is! do you think it's the summer fires or the 6th civil war?"
"oh, who can tell the difference any more, i just hate how the smoke clouds our view!"
"robot! i'm going to go have sex in the matrix now!"
"coooooompliance!"

undemocratic, authoritarian states are far less stable than regimes that the public view as "legitimate." in addition, economies where workers have few opportunities for advancement or stability are less productive. it doesn't pay to be the king of the ashes, you know.

they'll be "better off" than the rest of us, true. but i still think our "ruling class" is terribly misguided in their decision to act as such poor stewards of our economy, government, and planet.

it's hard to overstate how completely the function of the parties is to create the illusion of meaningful choice. if a person doesn't see that i don't know what to tell them.

it doesn't pay to be the king of the ashes, you know.

https://i.imgur.com/Ul7Uk5B.jpg

undemocratic, authoritarian states are far less stable than regimes that the public view as "legitimate."

… citation needed. Liberal democratic states are the historical anomaly here. (Including in the US, which has functionally had sort-of liberal democracy for all of 57 years.)

The Mumbai zillionaire whose high-rise house butts up against slums probably doesn’t feel real sad about his position in the world.

And you can always just look at the European aristocracy and trace wealth and power that has weathered centuries of civil wars and revolutions.

https://qz.com/694340/the-richest-families-in-florence-in-1427-are-still-the-richest-families-in-florence/

Being King of the Ashes is, in fact, pretty tight.

Which is all to say that the rich have no reason to be invested in what any of us would describe as a functioning society or state. They’ll be fine anyway.

yeah then at least then you don't have the pseudo-rich hanging around your spots making it uncool

And the poors can’t yell at you on your yacht without being shot by your Pinkerton detail.

The New Deal was a historical anomaly. We're living on the fumes. Can't wait to see how much chipping the Fourteenth Amendment can take!

I'd say liberal democratic states are more stable in the ways rich people care most about, which is the assurance that the government will not seize all your assets and throw you in prison. (See any number of uncooperative Russian oligarchs, e.g.) Being rich is a much better hedge against poverty and imprisonment in the United States than it is in Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, etc etc.

And for all the private militia talk, I just don't know how many billionaires really want to maintain an entire feudal state on their own. They want to be be able to go to the Met gala, not just sit on a private island. (Any of them who want the private-island option can have that too, obv.)

But also no, I'm not counting on millionaires and billionaires to save us. I just think there are pragmatic reasons for them not to be too enthusiastic about a MAGA state. Look at how Trump jerked around companies and CEOs who he didn't think paid him sufficient respect. To map's point, the 1 percent want a government they can reliably buy, and the two-party system has been pretty amenable to that.

And for all the private militia talk, I just don't know how many billionaires really want to maintain an entire feudal state on their own. They want to be be able to go to the Met gala, not just sit on a private island. (Any of them who want the private-island option can have that too, obv.)

well said. this is basically my point.

maybe the private island is the USA

I think the private militia stuff is about the super rich worrying about climate-change related societal breakdown. I heard something about billionaires worrying about how to keep their bodyguards loyal in the case of a revolution

The Roman Empire provides a good example of what happens when you don't pay the guards enough

and when you don't provide national health insurance #lead

They don’t have to maintain a private militia, that’s why we have cops and the US military.

They just get the option to kill the poors for sport because even the fantasy of the rule of law melts away.

The only way they have to become private island warlords is the complete collapse of society, which… we have like 3500 nukes. That collapse doesn’t come without those getting launched and making all questions moot.

my uncle is the only super rich person i know. he's a big fucking asshole. he built out most of his basement (which is, by itself, larger than my people's homes) so it's a survivor compound, complete with a fully stocked wine bar (whine bar). maybe all the other rich people are not as fucking crazy and selfish as he is, but he seems to have a lot of friends and colleagues that are also rich, and also gigantic assholes, so i imagine either he's rubbing off on them or the other way around. if nothing else, there will be at least a sizable majority of super-rich that really will retreat to their floating fortresses. but maybe all the rest will be like warren buffett or bill gates, your classic good guy rich guy

oof, i just shared a juicy anecdote about a super-rich person and then deleted it. such is life! such are non-disclosure agreements!

they are naive as fuck though. i don't think they have what it takes to maintain their position in a world where all the old systems of value fall apart. however, i could be wrong.

yeah, i'm just talking out of my ass, anyway. i was trained from birth to believe the world is about to end, it's hard to de-condition

We don't need historical examples, really, modern right-wing authoritarian states have not exactly faced challenges from their industrialists and aristocracy from Germany to Franco's Spain and onward.

China is the undemocratic authoritarian state with the most difficulties keeping the wealthy complacent and idle - and that's because they remain willing to expropriate your shit.

they are naive as fuck though

Also my experience with at least some rich people. A lot of them don't even really understand politics. They know their corner of the universe, where they are master, but not necessarily much beyond.

fortunately Donald Trump is not a rich person.

I think he's better understood as a celebrity than a rich person per se, for whatever that distinction means.

life is a movie

After agitating for the chance for weeks, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) finally visited alleged Jan. 6 rioters in jail Thursday night and compared them to prisoners of war, part of a months-long campaign to valorize the attack on Congress.

Though the vast majority of people facing charges for their actions on Jan. 6 are not in custody, a few dozen are behind bars. The Washington Post reported this week that 40 Jan. 6 defendants were being held in D.C.’s Correctional Treatment Facility.

Greene has taken the lead on campaigning for these detainees, and following her visit to what she dubbed the “Patriot wing” of the jail Thursday, she said “I was greeted by men with overwhelming cheers who rushed out to meet me with tears streaming down their faces.”

What followed built on the months-long effort to rewrite the history of the Capitol attack, turning it from a violent attempt to steal a second term for Donald Trump — in defiance of the results of the 2020 election — into a story of political persecution against simple patriots.

“It was like walking into a prisoner of war camp and seeing men who eyes can’t believe someone had made it in to see them,” Greene said.

I remember when right wingers cared about politicians appearing to be sympathetic to terrorists

This shit is only going to get worse.

so i guess MGT is for prison reform now?

or whatever her name is

“It was like walking into a prisoner of war camp and seeing men who eyes can’t believe someone had made it in to see them,” Greene said.

Summer of My German Soldier

Sure, for white "patriots", absolutely.

i'm guessing there will never be a "day" to remember all the people who died of covid, especially since the GOP went out of their way to make sure that so many more of them died than necessary. but i'd put the odds at 10:1 on a future US holiday dedicated to the 1/6 patriots

our very own Guy Fawkes day

“I was greeted by men with overwhelming cheers who rushed out to meet me with tears streaming down their faces.”

And, strange to say, they all called me "Sir."

just insanely reckless shit that is probably not going to end well for the GOP either. these people wanted to murder Mike Pence!!

i wonder what would have happened had he died that day

nothing good

I'm increasingly cynical that anything more significant than "fuck all" comes out of this.

i wonder what would have happened had he died that day

crackdown on antifa

i wonder what would have happened had he died that day

they would claim it as the biggest false flag ever and double down on the lunacy

if you would like to think about another bad thing, due to a surprise visit by the u.s. marshals all of these detainees were moved to a federal prison in pennsylvania because the d.c. jail's conditions are not so good if you don't enjoy living with feces all over. somehow no one noticed this before and the superior court inmates have to stay there still.

oh i'm sorry she visited the "central treatment facility," not the "central detention facility"

only one jail had people moved