Joe Money, Joe Problems: the November 2021 U.S. Politics Thread

"maybe let's think" <EDIT> <EDIT> shit

xp jaymc

but still, i think there was only one name on the ballot: walton. i understand that Brown, a Democrat was effectively the only other option for voters, but all those voters still had to write-in his name (or use a rubber stamp - apparently Brown's campaign spent $100K on little rubber stamps for people to use to write stamp-in his name on the ballot). to get trounced by write-in is pretty extraordinarily bad

I get what you're saying Josh but lets not forget that the QAnon/MTG/Jan 6 crowd is a pretty small slice of Republicans, and that something like 60% of Republicans have gotten at least one shot of the vaccine, so idk if we're really at "no one can be reasoned with". One issue that Dems seem to have is that there's such a broad distrust of government and the media, and I think Biden walking back most of his campaign promises for fucking SALT repeal isn't really helping there.

another thing is that Dem politicians are so fucking boring and focus grouped, one would think they'd loosen up a bit since Trump was elected but putting all the cards on the table for the 78 year old Joe Biden indicates they haven't really learned anything. I feel like a lot of Obama's popularity stemmed from his personality and general likeability. he seemed like someone you wanted to be around. they've got nobody like that now and that is why I see fucking Ted Cruz's face these days more than any Democrat save Biden himself

60% of Republicans have gotten at least one shot of the vaccine

Miami-Dade Republicans, ladies and gents.

The issue is less about whatever percentage of the GOP constituency still has a grip on some degree of sanity and more about an increasing percentage of their representatives who are kowtowing to the constituency whose marbles have long ago rolled down the storm drain.

And if the supposedly-sane GOP-ers are still showing up in droves to vote for Larry Insurrectionstoker, there's no effective difference between the two.

^^^^ otm

The (even more) extreme wing of the GOP might be a minority, but there are still millions and millions of them, enough so that it regularly takes an all-out struggle for Dems to come out on top when they seemingly hold even a modest advantage. All the reactionary other side has to do is invoke a book most of them have never read and an academic philosophy most of them don't understand to get a surge of votes, and those are the ones that aren't just inventing or pursuing outright bullshit. Like, at least "Beloved" and CRT are *real*. I mean, sure, 60% of Republicans got a shot, but 40% of the GOP not getting vaxxed ... that's a *huge* number! If 40% of your party is basically beyond reason, then it ultimately doesn't really matter if 30% of them are slightly more reasonable than the utterly batshit last 10%. The 30% and the 10% still mostly vote the same as the other 60%.

So, yeah, see above.

Is it really smart to lean into the more progressive wing of the party, given that Bernie got defeated pretty soundly by Biden and progressives aren't really tearing it up at the polls either?

Leaning into the progressive wing might be a massive failure - but the centrist project also doesn't work so YOLO. The Democrats lost hundreds or maybe even a thousand offices nationally post-2008, so technocratic efficiency doesn't seem to be a better plan than moonshot ideas. Those moonshots also remain popular - a lot of the crosstalk between certain wings/politicians being unpopular and the ideas being popular is what we saw in 2020 primary polls. Voters liked Bernie's ideas better but don't expect politicians to ever deliver so they might as well go for one the one deemed (by the media, natch) a safer choice to beat Trump. The only way you can combat that nihilism is delivering. Oops.

The numbers were starker than ever in VA about "white, college-educated" and "white, non-college-educated" - so in the medium to long game, creating more college grads should be a Democratic strategy right? But we can't even get 50 of them onboard for free community college.

But we can't even get 50 of them onboard for free community college.

google translate: but we only got 98% of them onboard for free community college

i know, i know - there are a handful of secret democrats who hate community college but are happy to let manchin destroy it instead. so maybe the number's more like 90% of them.

22% of voters turned out in Seattle, and we're getting the mayor whose platform for reforming policing was "force every officer to watch the George Floyd video and withhold a Friday afternoon pizza party if they do a racist murder that week"

I don't care if the entire Democratic senatorial caucus secretly hates the progressive agenda, as long as they keep it a deep, dark secret and vote for the legislation. Their votes matter. Their secret feelings don't.

google translate: but we only got 98% of them onboard for free community college

So what? Does it feel better to lose by 2 than by 20 if it's still not going to be the law?

As I clean my sniper rifle in the Potable Water War of 2040, "well, we had 35 Senate Democrats on board for fighting climate change so at least someone cared."

Even though Murphy (D) eked out a statewide win, Dems' collapse in blue-collar parts of South Jersey is breathtaking - including State Senate President Steve Sweeney (D) currently trailing a truck driver who spent $153. #NJGOV

— Dave Wasserman (@Redistrict) November 3, 2021

How much of the present situation, I wonder, is sheer, blinkered COVID-related frustration?

How much of the present situation, I wonder, is sheer, blinkered COVID-related frustration white resentment?

― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, November 3, 2021 6:44 PM (eight seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

Time for another stimmy check IMO

the school stuff is mostly drummed up by koch dark money, but that was only possible because of covid. without covid, a lot of parents would have no idea what their kids were learning in schools. that combined with them being told CRT is bad by the tv is a good trick for the GOP.

I apologize, that's not aimed at you necessarily! But when I hear about all this backlash etc etc all I can see is a huge blinking "white resentment" sign.

Yes, white resentment is some of it, but is it all of it?

Biden's approval has dropped 20 points with Black voters since August, I don't know that "white resentment" is a fully coherent explanation for the political winds.

No worries!

Time for another stimmy check IMO

Today, I'm introducing the Monthly Economic Crisis Support Act to provide $2,000 every month throughout this crisis.

I've been saying it for months: a one-time payment is not enough when millions of people are unemployed and need to eat. We need bold action, immediately.

— Vice President Kamala Harris (@VP) May 8, 2020

Or about 12 points each with Black and Hispanic Americans since August if you prefer 538's aggregate polling.

well, at least this is nice

Breaking: House Democrats are putting paid family and medical leave back into their Build Back Better framework.

— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 3, 2021

As I clean my sniper rifle in the Potable Water War of 2040, "well, we had 35 Senate Democrats on board for fighting climate change so at least someone cared."

the Dems are gonna be in a situation where they need like 60% of the popular vote to get the slimmest margin which is what causes so many moderates to win. if they're serious about maintaining any semblance of power they need to start talking about abolishing the EC, adding DC statehood, preventing gerrymandering, etc.

putting stuff in, taking stuff out, but is there ever going to be a vote?

what's happened to the (extremely bad) idea that it has to be childcare OR pre-k but not both? https://newrepublic.com/article/163991/funding-universal-prek-childcare

Jayapal says changes being made to SALT will be enough to win over House progressives

— Manu Raju (@mkraju) November 3, 2021

they're going to cap it, so rich assholes e.g. me get a big deduction, but the really rich assholes don't get an even bigger deduction.

The white/black resentment is because the dems are a party of losers who love losing. Biden should have been calling out weak dems all year on Twitter and absolutely ROASTING republicans who were trying to block all of his (WIDELY POPULAR) agenda. Instead, we got the same old hapless pre-negotiating themselves out of a deal, and surrogates whining about Machin/Sinema. The dems are in favor of popular ideas. RUN ON THEM FOR REAL! Instead, they try to appeal (again and again and again and again) to republicans.

Like Milo wrote, we don't know if running full-throated progressives will work, because the dems never fucking try it. And the ones who, against the odds, make it to Congress, either get co-opted, sidelined, or pushed out. The dem leadership is a bunch of corrupt decrepit idiots who need to be ushered into a rocket and blasted into the sun.

Notable recent outbreak of OTMness in this thread.

Thanks to you all for that, even if none of us has a fucking clue what to do about it in any kind of constructive way

as for this

if they're serious about maintaining any semblance of power they need to start talking about abolishing the EC, adding DC statehood, preventing gerrymandering, etc.

Well they are talking about those things. But - in an amusing self-perpetuating twist that will surprise no one - they do not have the power to unilaterally do any of the things that will cause them to have the power to do any of the things that would be helpful

You need to obtain power to obtain power

You need to tell people, convincingly, what you would do with power once you get it, other than fucking bring people together.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Pentagon watchdog finds no negligence in mistaken drone strike that killed Afghan civilians, official tells AP.

— philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) November 3, 2021

Well that's settled then

abolishing the EC, adding DC statehood, preventing gerrymandering

yes, these are huge roadblocks to change. the USA was designed that way and the national mythology has created a deep reservoir of unmerited reverence for that design, even among citizens who are robbed of power because of those roadblocks. it's part of the innate conservatism of white America, but it's strong among recent immigrants, too.

milo- But we can't even get 50 of them onboard for free community college.

karl-google translate: but we only got 98% of them onboard for free community college

milo-So what? Does it feel better to lose by 2 than by 20 if it's still not going to be the law?

no, not at all, it's not about that. it's about accuracy, and actually hope, believe it not. you know we're fucked when I'M the one with the message of hope, but if there is going to be any chance of getting across the 50-vote line in the next 10 years, it's better for people to be thinking "wow we're 98% of the way there already!" than it is for them to hear "can't even get the exact number we need, it's pointless"

Well they are talking about those things. But - in an amusing self-perpetuating twist that will surprise no one - they do not have the power to unilaterally do any of the things that will cause them to have the power to do any of the things that would be helpful

true, and I'm not saying I think they can get it done, but they need to be getting the message out there. the system is rigged against you, make sure the voters know why. it is a goddamn travesty that the #1 issue for Republicans is some dumb bullshit that doesn't even fucking exist while for Dems "climate change" is barely in the top 5 despite being a literal existential threat that will affect everything. Donald Trump came up with the "build a wall between us and Mexico" line, a thing that is literally impossible to do, and got nearly every single Republican voter and lawmaker behind it. I know Dems can't just pull things out of their ass like that because it's not just about culture wars for them but all these folks wanna talk about is Trump cuz he's such an easy target.

You could introduce amendments and/or legislation tomorrow to abolish the EC, add DC statehood, and prevent gerrymandering. Expand the Supreme Court too.

The progress of those measures would be impaired by exactly the same forces that are halting progress today. And you'd still be light-years away from M4A, let alone UBI or serious action on climate.

Reform measures are like peeing yourself while wearing a dark suit, you get a warm feeling and no one notices.

as miserable and glum and cynical as i can be, i at least need to maintain hope that there is something better coming in the future.

it's the narcissism of small differences, but i find the "NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY" voices on the left to be incredibly annoying. it's like you feel better when the world gets worse because it means you were right. and god, even the optimistic scenario of that person, in which finally the world actually DOES get better and there's a revolution and AOC is president and everything is perfect, that same person would be like "SEEEEEEEEEEEEE, if they would have done what *I* said from the beginning, see, I was right". it's like there is no scenario in which this is not just totally fucking annoying

like I'm not really a savant for politics, I watch some late night talk shows and read about politics on Twitter and on here. I have no idea what the Dems are trying to do right now. I don't know what their concerns are. when Trump was president, I knew every fucking thought that popped into his head.

Reform measures are like peeing yourself while wearing a dark suit, you get a warm feeling and no one notices.

https://i.imgur.com/BBO6LMj.jpg

it's like you feel better when the world gets worse because it means you were right.

this is my dad on his football team

it's the narcissism of small differences, but i find the "NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY" voices on the left to be incredibly annoying. it's like you feel better when the world gets worse because it means you were right. and god, even the optimistic scenario of that person, in which finally the world actually DOES get better and there's a revolution and AOC is president and everything is perfect, that same person would be like "SEEEEEEEEEEEEE, if they would have done what *I* said from the beginning, see, I was right". it's like there is no scenario in which this is not just totally fucking annoying

Have you considered that people not of the good vibes only school are expressing their opinions and beliefs rather than asserting their superiority over you?

have you considered that there are 1 shades of gray between black and white?

why would i ever interact with anyone at all who is of the "good vibes only" school?

1 was a placeholder while i looked up the scientific fact on this. there are

10000000000000000000000000 shades of gray between black and white

the only place where there "good vibes only" is heaven, and that's why i would never go there

they wouldn't let you in

i didn't get sent to hell, i quit heaven!