Is ADHD a real disorder?

"You ain't shit, you ain't never been shit" is such a thing I'd never thought I'd say as a parent lol amirite heehee

made an appointment to consult with an adhd coach this week. (which I think will be genuinely useful but my GOD I hate that term). we moved recently for my gf’s job, and the experience I picked up in my last position was very specific to that employer; being kind of back at square one with my career has really kicked a lot of my symptoms/anxieties about my symptoms into high gear. really hope we talk mostly about practical strategies and she does as little “you can do it, champ!” as possible

― nicole, Tuesday, October 26, 2021 12:47 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I'd like to hear how this coaching goes if you don't mind updating us, as I've always wondered about something like this. I see a therapist who does take a bit more of a practical, what can we do right now kind of approach. There's a lot of reinforcement of habits that help me manage my ADHD, like exercise and sleep. We might talk about my childhood but only in a way that is very present-oriented, i.e. be aware of how that's impacting the way you respond to things right now rather than trying to excavate. I find it very helpful at this stage in my life and I don't think deep psychotherapy would be as much so, feel like I did enough of that.

adhd sux!

for real though it is really hard. my brain is capable of amazing things....some of the time... if/only if these dozen conditions are met....

meds are a game changer, in some ways i feel like i didn't really know who i was before meds, i was in this fog of untreated adhd that i mostly treated with caffeine and reliance on external motivators. in the absence of external motivators, things got really bad

Oh man the Wellbutrin pretty much changed the whole trajectory of my life. I mean I’m sure it was not solely that but also the same life kicking me in the ass circumstances that motivated me to get on meds in the first place. And also aging. But it was like having blurry vision and putting on glasses for the first time, like “oh, it’s possible to have the focus to just start right in on a task I’m supposed to start on, I’m not just some lazy POS who can’t do work.”

I’ve been on a pretty good upswing lately in managing. I had been doing incredibly well pre Covid and then WFH with kids plus pandemic anxiety really threw me off. I had some bad moments. Getting back into the office a couple times a week has helped. And also just getting forged in the crucible of life. I just don’t have as much room for error anymore in terms of time management. I actually think about prioritizing in ways I never did before. Each week I get a little better at it.

I'm really intrigued as to whether my self-diagnosing investigations into ADD are illuminating of one particular thing in my neurological makeup and am curious if anyone else experiences this (or whether it's some other pathology/character trait): I don't think I could genuinely, honestly say what I want or what I like - from relatively minor things to, say, choosing a new tie or jumper, to big things like wanting to have kids or a career. When I look back on my life, I'm stunned to think just how much of my life has come down to either chance or following the path of least resistance/action, and I include my wardrobe in that and fairly major life choices (where I've ended up living; I've got two kids and I've arrived in a career as a teacher). I'm happy I think but even then I'm never 100% sure.

Perhaps I'm just a distant, feckless doofus after all. Anyone?

That's terribly self-indulgent as well! Welcome to my (ongoing) midlife crisis.

i totally relate to that

i do too. there are (afaict) a lot of weird stuff that could be attributed to adhd that one wouldn't expect. i think people with normal dopamine are more driven to pursue things. not that i haven't pursued anything, i'm doing ok, but some normal things such as clothes shopping seem so burdensome and uninteresting to me.

i guess in a different ways though.

1) i am pulled in a million different directions by things i *do* like, or *might* like, because it seems interesting or pleasurable or fun, and some things that i used to really really like i no longer like or care about. therefore my sense of self as it relates to what i like or don't like is kind of unstable. i like this now, i might not like it later, i might like that later but now now, etc. pleasure-seeking has always been a constant motivator though, even if it's a fraught relationship w/ pleasure

2) i definitely have a clearer sense of what i want and don't want now that i'm on meds. because i was diagnosed pretty late (i was 35) i had, still have, a lot of anxiety about trying to actualize on what i want because the fog of untreated adhd that i existed in for my 20s and early 30s made me feel a lot how you described -- path of least resistance, indecision, etc. i still somehow was pretty high achieving but i NEVER felt like i was on top of things, ever. still don't but i have much better days w/ meds.

xp yea i have totally simplified clothes shopping to basic staples i like so i don't have to make decisions

Yes to wanting a million little things without ever knowing what big things I want. I'm taking active steps atm to make some intentional big changes in my life (maybe the biggest blast of intentional action since I decided to stop dithering and finally finish school), and even then it's like...this is a change that is more favorable than my current state of affairs but it's not like I'm pursuing anything I'm passionate about. It's just that I'm actively trying to pick a thing rather than passively allowing a thing to pick me. Which is kind of a big deal.

Also yes to not wanting to think much about clothes, food, the basic staples of day-to-day life. I chalk it up to the desire to conserve mental and emotional energy. The fewer things I have to worry about in a day, the better.

yup. my usual status is "my body feels ok but my brain has run out of energy."

Comforting to read what feel like variations on a theme of passivity and novelty? My thirst for what I guess I'd call cultural novelty is endless and nameless: music, books, nature, loosely. But, if I stop to think about it, most of it is pursuit and simply activity - the act is the process of accumulation. Streaming has certainly fed beautifully into this but I was like it before with tape trading (I've still got draws of shite at my folks' house).

But to return to the main thing I mentioned, I've no real idea how I've ended up here and feel like I've had so small an active part in it. I guess this makes me incredibly lucky in lots of ways and I'm increasingly aware of the role of privilege in where I've ended up. But still, if you gave me a post-it note, I couldn't come up with 3 things that I really want - however big or small. Combine that with the constant feeling I should be doing something but I don't know what it is and well.

we live in a very weird era of human history where roles and paths and apprenticeships and folkways are getting drastically reconfigured sometimes out of existence, and without much of a framework (like 'faith' or 'community') to fall back on. 'what is life for?' is never a settled question much less 'what is MY life for?' but it seems particularly choppy to contemplate now, for everybody

Oh man, when I think back on how I was pushed to set personal goals and achieve success through self determination and positive thinking, it's amazing that I made it to where I am today without killing myself. At some point I was honest enough with myself to admit that all I really wanted out of my own life was novelty - to get high and listen to music, but I also found that just doing that made me miserable unless I was helping other people too. So I started looking at my life in terms of how it impacted other people's lives instead of letting other people's notions of success define my life and then things just kinda fell into place.

I've no real idea how I've ended up here and feel like I've had so small an active part in it. I guess this makes me incredibly lucky in lots of ways and I'm increasingly aware of the role of privilege in where I've ended up. But still, if you gave me a post-it note, I couldn't come up with 3 things that I really want - however big or small. Combine that with the constant feeling I should be doing something but I don't know what it is and well.

I definitely feel like I've drifted into what I'm currently doing (also teaching.) When I somehow ended up an adjunct living in a cabin in Alaska, I used to amuse myself up every time "Once in A Lifetime" came on the shuffle by looking around my actual shotgun shack and saying out loud, "Well, how DID I get here???"

But for me it's combined with the feeling that I did have something I wanted - to make my living by writing and by editing other people's work - and that I'm not doing it because unlike teaching it wasn't something I could just drift into. (Not that I don't like teaching - I do! But I don't think it's the thing I'm best at.)

amuse myself - I wrote "crack myself up" and then changed it. ugh

I drifted into home health care, as well. And I'm on the fence about if I'm really suited for this, too--I was an excellent CNA in terms of the techniques of the field, and I'm a lot more tolerant of non-white and non-middle class lifestyles than pretty much everyone I've ever worked for ad a companion, but being alone with one person for hours at a time gives me anxiety. More to the point, drifting through life with ADHD has made me end up in a decaying RV with decaying teeth and a minimum wage job.

Oh man, when I think back on how I was pushed to set personal goals and achieve success through self determination and positive thinking, it's amazing that I made it to where I am today without killing myself. At some point I was honest enough with myself to admit that all I really wanted out of my own life was novelty - to get high and listen to music, but I also found that just doing that made me miserable unless I was helping other people too. So I started looking at my life in terms of how it impacted other people's lives instead of letting other people's notions of success define my life and then things just kinda fell into place.

― BrianB, Thursday, November 11, 2021 1:41 AM (fifteen hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

beautiful post, relate to it a lot.

Not trying to push the idea on anyone, but having a family has very much served that purpose to me, because it gives me several people's lives who my life impacts at all times. In a strange way, this is very freeing from the tyranny of "what do I want?"

So while it's not necessarily a big deal in the lives of the neurotypical, I thought I would peek in here to mention that, since getting back on my meds like a month and a half ago after a muddle-headed year and a half pandemic abstention, I managed to methodically plug away at job searching and applying and interviewing (among my worst and most hated things in life) such that I wound up with several offers and one that I've now accepted. And this after nearly nine years of slogging through a temp-to-hire job that didn't suit me in the slightest and that was tolerable at best but which I clung to partly because I dreaded looking for something else and partly because...I guess I didn't think I deserved better? Or would fail if I tried? Good ol' imposter syndrome? Something? And for the first time in my entire working life, I found something that I actually wanted and pursued and that will actually be personally fulfilling rather than just taking whatever piece of wage slave crap fell into my lap. And I'm genuinely excited about it, and they seem genuinely excited to have me. And there's the potential for a lot of big and even life-altering opportunities to come out of this. Like personally enriching opportunities (I'm even taking a pay cut to make the move because what the fuck is money anyway).

I'm experiencing a whole lot of cognitive whiplash atm. Like I can't quite allow myself to believe that something this big and this positive happened to me (even though it's just a new job and totally nbd to most people). That I made this happen to me. It's like...magic or something. I'm still not-so-secretly waiting for innumerable shoes to drop (maybe I'm on the verge of getting Punk'd?) but...holy crap. Get on the meds, fellow ADD-ers. Things are possible if you can clear out that stupid fog.

(I'm realizing that this is the sort of revelatory experience people usually have when they're like half my age but fuck it. I'm tootin' my horn anyway.)

Toot away, OL, good for you!

rep. cobra commander is making a senate run???

that’s pretty inspiring Old Lunch

AW, that is great news!

Thank u all! I'm suddenly realizing that this is the first time I've gotten a job as a result of an interview (rather than just passively accepting a permanent position after temping, or just temping until they dumped me in the street) since...2006? And it was so painless (relatively speaking). I had a two-hour interview for this particular position and it was totally pleasant. I don't know what I've been so afraid of (aside from the nightmare that is trying to actually sell myself rather than detailing all of my faults and foibles because it's only fair to let people know what a walking disaster I am).

just fyi OL i am pretty neurotypical but i strongly relate to this:

slogging through a temp-to-hire job that didn't suit me in the slightest and that was tolerable at best but which I clung to partly because I dreaded looking for something else and partly because...I guess I didn't think I deserved better? Or would fail if I tried?

Woohoo! Congrats, Old Lunch!

yes!

So while it's not necessarily a big deal in the lives of the neurotypical, I thought I would peek in here to mention that, since getting back on my meds like a month and a half ago after a muddle-headed year and a half pandemic abstention, I managed to methodically plug away at job searching and applying and interviewing (among my worst and most hated things in life) such that I wound up with several offers and one that I've now accepted. And this after nearly nine years of slogging through a temp-to-hire job that didn't suit me in the slightest and that was tolerable at best but which I clung to partly because I dreaded looking for something else and partly because...I guess I didn't think I deserved better? Or would fail if I tried? Good ol' imposter syndrome? Something? And for the first time in my entire working life, I found something that I actually wanted and pursued and that will actually be personally fulfilling rather than just taking whatever piece of wage slave crap fell into my lap. And I'm genuinely excited about it, and they seem genuinely excited to have me. And there's the potential for a lot of big and even life-altering opportunities to come out of this. Like personally enriching opportunities (I'm even taking a pay cut to make the move because what the fuck is money anyway).

I'm experiencing a whole lot of cognitive whiplash atm. Like I can't quite allow myself to believe that something this big and this positive happened to me (even though it's just a new job and totally nbd to most people). That I made this happen to me. It's like...magic or something. I'm still not-so-secretly waiting for innumerable shoes to drop (maybe I'm on the verge of getting Punk'd?) but...holy crap. Get on the meds, fellow ADD-ers. Things are possible if you can clear out that stupid fog.

― Rep. Cobra Commander (R-TX) (Old Lunch), Tuesday, November 23, 2021 2:36 PM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Ah man, I relate to this so, so much. I'm really happy for you. Getting on meds were a massive catalyst for my career - it was really not going well at all and I was racked with self doubt, and after getting on meds, I found a work situation that suited me much better and it was like "holy shit, there are people who actually work in a way that makes my strengths valuable and doesn't make my weaknesses a constant albatross." I went through everything you're describing, disbelieve, waiting for the other shoe to drop (still do sometimes, still working on that in therapy). I can't say the meds were the *sole* thing that caused the change (also a work crisis, therapy, exercise, habit changes) but the meds were really the thing that made me realize "Oh, it's actually possible to just sit down and focus on a project even when I'm not *in the zone*. Maybe I'm not a lazy POS. Maybe that fog was real and wasn't my fault." Like I'm actually really good at my job now, and demonstrably successful, and four years ago I wasn't even sure I should be in this field at all, and wasn't even sure I should be in any kind of career that had any kind of performance pressure.

congrats OL

i got diagnosed last year (twice!) and finally started vyvanse a few days ago and i'm fairly underwhelmed so far? not really noticing any improved ability to concentrate on work or anything, beyond it just eliminating most fatigue. that part is both expected and nice but not the main thing i was hoping for. the part of my brain that does constantly want to flick between five different things at once hasn't really calmed down at all or anything. the dehydration is really annoying too.

You might have to bounce between medications and doses to figure out what works best for you (Concerta was a big fat dud for me iirc). But do give this one a little breathing room first. ADD meds aren't a panacea ime but rather more like training wheels. They give you some breathing room in which to do the work of learning to better focus.

Re: my new job, there is no way on earth I would ever have been able to do this without meds. It's the biggest non-stop infodump, eighteen simultaneous things flying at u face job I've ever had, and I love it so far but I would've noped out in the first week were I left to my own neurological devices.

I have work I need to do and I don't know why I'm not doing it. It's boring and I want to get it right i.e. not let people down, but I can't see how, so I keep letting Twitter absorb my attention instead, because whenever 1% of my attention goes unabsorbed then anxiety & guilt about the work makes my brain feel itchy. But why not even try to do it and solve the problem for good until the next time?

The above is a recurring theme of my life since late teens. Every so often (nowish) it intensifies until I can't even seem to start simple tasks. I hate myself for it; my entire life feels untenable, irredeemable. Then I get put on antidepressants & my CBT 101 therapist says "poor concentration is a symptom of depression" - yeah, but I'm nearly this bad even when my mood is fine? No answers yet except "try harder", and I just... can't, but why?

Meanwhile the pills take away the anxiety that feels like it stops me working but I still don't do the work. Maybe I do even less without panicking myself into it occasionally.

Is this ADHD? What does ADHD distraction/task avoidance feel like? Is it brain-itchy? Is it anxious (and what kind of anxiety, i.e. task guilt vs social re coworkers vs unrelated, or any/all of the above)? How do you tell if ADHD causes the anxiety or if it's all anxiety all the way down?

Or is it all sorts of feelings, different every day: too many meetings; too tired and sluggish one day, too buzzy the next; train of thought constantly derailed by mundane noises; just couldn't settle somehow; an appointment later is all you can think about all day? And when you finally get a quiet anxiety- & distraction-free day, that in itself feels too unsettling? Or it's just so nice not feeling on edge for once that you should relax and not spoil it?

Sorry to scream into the void. I don't know how I expect anyone to read the above. But.

tl;dr: ADHD - what does it feel like? (Hi! Thanks!)

I tried a few different things -- ritalin made me feel shitty and the positive effect was short lived. Stratera worked almost too well, it made me feel like I had no desires and was just a work drone, and then it also led to ED (TMI I know) which cleared up as soon as I stopped. Wellbutrin is the best for me so far - it does agitate me sometimes but cutting back on the caffiene and getting more sleep usually eases that. I think part of why it works for me is that it's also an antidepressant and SAD exacerbates my ADHD real bad. Anyway, worth trying different things and good luck. xp

strattera is mf trash, no one has ever had a good experience with that shit

spacecadet: I feel your post a lot and want to respond to it, will try to later.

What ADHD feels like is neurotransmitter malfunction, which
being described in the lexicon of mental health and serving as a mechanism of feeling itself, is hard to explain, but it certainly involves a disconnect between what "should" be done and what the brain is currently interested in doing. For me, it was first identified as procrastination; a personal failing, a psychology of self-sabatoge, which led to depression, which led to antidepressants, which felt like they were just stopping the spiral by flooding my brain with serotonin & dopamine. I didn't get diagnosed as adhd until after my kids did, in my 40s, but that led to my current regimen of stimulants which seem to help my brain spark the serotonin and dopamine instead of getting flooded by it, which feels like maybe I still procrastinate, but sometimes I can sneak past starting a task and go right to finding something interesting about it and finishing it instead of turning it into a big psychological dragon that i need to slay. But that's probably just me.

IME, ADD and anxiety and depression have historically been super comorbid and deeply intertwined for some of the reasons mentioned. Like for the longest time, my inability to accomplish goals I set for myself just left me feeling like shit about myself, and it was only after I was able to slightly alleviate that inability that I noticed the depression starting to fade into the background. I'm at the point now where I'm better able to recognize those inciting factors, which helps me to deal with the attendant side effects (i.e. being REALLY FUCKING OVERWHELMED AND ANXIOUS at work today but recognizing that it was because my ability to focus on way too many new things at once was severely overclocked). It's taken some work to get there (and I have a long way to go before I'm there with any real consistency), but it definitely helps me to release the pressure valve on potential meltdowns.

spacecadet - your experience sounds pretty similar to mine, seems worth looking into at the very least.

One thing I would say is that while anxiety and ADHD are definitely intertwined, I'm married to someone who clearly suffers from anxiety but has no resulting signs of ADHD. The anxiety can be paralyzing, but it doesn't lead to the kind of constantly disrupted focus I have experienced.

Whereas when I'm anxious it makes my ADHD symptoms WORSE, and they're always there to an extent.

Yes. And sometimes when I'm particularly anxious, my meds cease to do anything for me. Which is why I've found it essential to do the supplementary work to compensate for those instances when the training wheels pop off and roll down the road.

spacecadet your post describes adhd imo. like accurately

I’m currently navigating adhd / bipolar hell