The Havana Syndrome

I just find the certainty and dismissiveness kind of obnoxious.

speaking as someone who hates the CIA and is skeptical of this thing, you are not alone. it's certainly worth a thread about the "phenomenon" without milo's endless trolling

also, Raymond deserves better

"argue" is one of the 4 words in raymond's post and that's what milo's doing, i'm not reading his posts as bad faith trolling at all

I was intrigued by my best friend’s circumstances in med school. She was from DC. She told me her father was in the US Information Agency (active until 1999), and that he had moved the family all around the world - to Chad, Sri Lanka, Martinique

She was convinced he was a CIA agent, but he never shared anything about that with us. I was able to visit him when he got older, I liked talking to him, but he never gave anything away

this thread is massive tongue-biting for me.

https://quitmouthbiting.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/quit-cheek-biting-mouth-sores.png

I dated someone for a long time whose grandfather was described to me as “doing something vague with insurance” during the 50s-70s that required him to live in a number of Latin American and SE Asian countries. Always in a hotbed of recent military/ intelligence activity when we were Doing Democracy at them. I never met him but he sounded like a caricature of a WASP prick, and that was just according to his kids and grandkids.

yeah this is lies all the way down

yr mom defies the laws of physics as the west understands them

I think it's time to start issuing tin foil hats to State Dept. employees

Behold: The Worst Havana Syndrome Report Yet

Dan S, I had an fMRI at UCSF in 2009 or so, for a study. My friend was interning in a lab. It was very neat! I wonder if you work there.

This hysterical Wapo editorial from last month is my favourite:

Eventually, the culprits must be found and held to account. But first, the injurious emissions have to be stopped. The health and well-being of U.S. officials abroad demand no less. National security depends on those officials to be the eyes and ears of the United States. It is unacceptable that someone is trying to punch them out, and is getting away with it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/28/havana-syndrome-unsolved-unacceptable/

I think another gross thing about these breathless articles— and yes, about some reactions here on ILX— is that they actually put stock in the notion that military combatants of the US are our collective "enemies," rather than constructions of military and statecraft.

Schizophrenics being like "This is what I've BEEN SAYING" about Havana syndrome is pretty funny

— нико (@nietzscioran) October 21, 2021

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2014-08/documents/sick_building_factsheet.pdf

sorry I’m done

See, black mold in the torture dungeon showers.

also, Raymond deserves better

I guess what I find kind of weird ITT is people saying "whatever, it's mass hysteria, who cares," whereas I think mass hysteria is pretty interesting and worth examining!

Just saw this:

According to Jargon’s reporting and previous research, this development involves mostly young women and is heavily influenced by how often they watched TikToks from influencers who said they had Tourette syndrome. The movements are sociogenic, meaning they are developed socially, but have profound and real neurological effects. Patients had physical jerks, such as neck twitches, or were compulsively and involuntarily repeating a word like “beans.”

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tanyachen/young-women-reporting-concerning-behavioral-changes-from

I guess what I find kind of weird ITT is people saying "whatever, it's mass hysteria, who cares," whereas I think mass hysteria is pretty interesting and worth examining!

What's interesting or unique about this case?

I dunno, any case of mass hysteria seems interesting to me, but different strokes, I guess.

Can qe say for sure these are strokes tbf

see now milo is really leaning into the bad faith trolling. yes this is interesting and worthy of discussion, if only as a case study of mass hysteria like the cops who claimed the poison milkshakes. of course these assholes suck, but this is worth following on multiple levels (awareness, media aggregation, skepticism, possibly maybe occasionally actual evidence?).

what I really object to here is milo's underlying assertion that this thread shouldn't exist, and his decision to engage in his usual pointless overposting like Colin Anderson the psychic vampire, sapping the thread of all energy until none remain.

(the 10% of the time that milo isn't engaged in toxic bad-faith trolling, I usually agree with him ftr)

also v intrigued by brimstead's "sick building" post, a phenomenon that is known to exist and is actually documented. Wouldn't be surprised if some cut-corners DoD mentality resulted in shoddy construction that could create these effects.

again, yes, this is interesting and worth a thread.

No thread need justify itself, but let us demand that every post must

(-_-)

darraghmac i somehow just noticed yr display name, made me chuckle

milo's underlying assertion that this thread shouldn't exist

This underlying assertion that doesn't exist?

Cops and spooks psyching themselves up as victims and making themselves ill, how that's spread (paramilitary bosses telling their underlings they're under fire), the spooks and hawks use of the hysteria to further their goals (money, saber-rattling, enhancement of institutional power and prestige), the actual root cause - all things I've talked about in this very thread. That I'm prefacing it with "Havana Syndrome isn't real" (as Havana Syndrome has been repeatedly defined by the people selling it to gullible rubes - and Congressional Democrats, but I repeat myself) doesn't change any of that.

Are there also tossed off cheap shots? Yes, because the situation doesn't deserve some considered solemnity. No one's died (except whomever we decide to target with sanctions), there are no real stakes at play.

Tabes if you spotted a typically garbled reference to a resurgent man utd left back im v impressed

can someone please make a gif of the james bond gun barrel intro but instead of blood crawling down the screen it's barf

― ✖, Friday, 22 October 2021 01:26 (twenty-two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I really thought, before spotting the time posted,and with no small sense of horror, this was gonna finish with 'alec baldwin' and was like wow, dark af

admittedly chuckling at the thought of the bond intro ending with alec baldwin tumbling down the screen instead of blood

Yes i know but my first readings are commonly extremely cursory, shameful but true

JUST IN: Funding for victims of "Havana Syndrome" to be included in Pentagon bill https://t.co/5pr1NHSTJL pic.twitter.com/uTHupoCdd0

— The Hill (@thehill) October 25, 2021

Speaking as someone who lives with Havana type symptoms from long term post-concussion syndrome, I find the list of symptoms quite plausible - they’re all hearing/balance-related - very commonly the kind of thing you get from sustained loud noise/high pitched noise/hearing damage or a knock to the head. Builders and factory workers get these symptoms all the time because noise in the workplace is so poorly regulated. It’s not voodoo doll stuff.

And often with these symptoms, psychosomatic and actual physical symptoms become interdependent. Sometimes it’s pureky psychosomatic, sometimes it’s purely the result of actual physical damage, and sometimes it’s both – I’d say both was more common. Anyone who’s had tinnitus, either briefly or for a long period, knows this is pretty normal.

But those causes are easily identified. The cause they found in Havana was crickets, which the sufferers (and the conspiracy people who love them) are rejecting.

Those causes aren’t easily identified at all. Many, many people with concussion/trauma issues and functional neurological disorders have no idea what originally caused them.

Former CIA officers urge response to what they believe are Russian microwave attacks known as Havana Syndrome: “Enlist U.S. allies, expand forward deterrence, limit the adversary’s reach, choke off money, and bring those accountable to justice.” https://t.co/nyKr6pyZsI

— Ken Dilanian (@KenDilanianNBC) October 25, 2021

we're gonna nuke every microwave in russia

*HUNTED*

"I just process visas, I'm not CIA!"
Russian Tommy Lee Jones - "I don't care."

Huh

https://theintercept.com/2014/09/04/former-l-times-reporter-cleared-stories-cia-publication/

the wiring and networking in the brain

🧵This from @juliaioffe is 45 seconds of a firehose of idiocy and since it just might be the pretext for the next war, I’m going to go through it piece by piece. This is Elizabeth Holmes “a chemistry occurs” only more arrogant and confused. pic.twitter.com/8NJ2TeTG4Q

— Daniel Koffler, MD 🌹🏴🔥🇵🇸 (@dmkoffler) October 28, 2021

someone has brain damage, that's for sure.

you don't even need to know anything or see it debunked, it's obvious from her hedging and body language that she's full of shit

shades of 'a chemistry is performed'

How does this gibberish get published

A thing that has surprised me in this spate of skeptical Havana Syndrome op-eds is that many of them have failed to reckon with the possibility that the tech at play could be iterative—and that different iterations are now in the hands of multiple actors. https://t.co/mDH4KfB4d7

— Katie Bo Lillis (@KatieBoLillis) November 4, 2021

Katie Katie Bo Lillis
Banana fana fo Fillis
Me mi mo millis

Katie (Annoyed Grunt) Lillis

The dreaded multiple actors.....