The Havana Syndrome

Is this the thread for the Paul Simenon solo project from 1990.

Yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdEt9EuDQhE

Sorry, better quality here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSd1zDD7arY

So a bunch of reporting on American spook claims of weapons being used by enemies? Not sure what your point was then?

― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, October 21, 2021 4:45 PM (forty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

You're the one who's pressing the point that "Havana Syndrome" refers to specific CIA claims and not the phenomenon that the CIA is making claims about.

So a bunch of reporting on the CIA/State claims proves that this exists as a phenomenon separate from those claims?

Sure, most of the reporting isn't simply printing CIA press releases.

Unless you think the whole thing is a fictional tale concocted from whole cloth by the CIA, that not a single person actually experienced any headaches or dizziness or any other symptoms, and that anyone who has claimed to have experienced symptoms is in fact knowingly telling fabrications in a deliberate effort to spread propaganda? I mean, maybe that's the case, though for now, I think it makes sense to treat the phenomenon (people experiencing symptoms) as distinct from the CIA's explanation for the phenomenon.

Isn't a regular cannon technically a headache cannon?

And here's a study having to with... Canadians suffering similar symptoms:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/19007096v1

Some people in Cuba had some vague symptoms - possibly crickets, possibly bad paint, possibly the knowledge of their eternal damnation wearing on their mind. It was immediately picked up as an attack on Americans by Cubans. Then by the Russians.

From that moment on, the issue is inseparable from the weapons claim and advancing of intelligence and hawk interests.

From there the phenomenon spread globally - I have my doubts Chinese intelligence let Cuban intelligence set up a headache cannon in Beijing, personally.

This is mass hysteria with people being manipulated by the beneficiaries.

As referenced in the other thread, cops who OD in the presence of fentanyl are also having real symptoms of something - a panic attack, whatever. But this is fed by the constant need to present as and believe themselves to be victims, endangered by their job.

Which masses are being hysterical now? I don't get out that much, but I'd like to avoid running into them, if possible.

As referenced in the other thread, cops who OD in the presence of fentanyl are also having real symptoms of something - a panic attack, whatever. But this is fed by the constant need to present as and believe themselves to be victims, endangered by their job.

― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, October 21, 2021 7:32 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

When medical first responders had panic attacks because of fentanyl, was it also because they were cry babies believing they are perpetual victims? You have so much hatred within you.

There's also the possibility that some people suffered genuine, non-psychosomatic symptoms from (insert theory here), which led other staff to feel something akin to those symptoms.. i.e. like the one student that has a fainting spell which causes an epidemic of students fainting. Stranger things have happened.

Yes, I hate cops. Got me.

Cops are still routinely having copioid ODs and having Narcan administered (not something for panic attacks), so the argument about bad CDC guidelines being the cause is obviously horseshit.

You seem to be quite expert on this subject, milo z. where do you find the time?

One thing I know for sure, and that is that Havana 3am sucked

i.e. like the one student that has a fainting spell which causes an epidemic of students fainting. Stranger things have happened.

― Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, October 21

reminds me of the films The Fits (Anna Rose Holmer, 2015) and The Falling (Carol Morley, 2014)

anyone not taking it seriously should step off. They’re giving training to government families traveling abroad about what to do if they think they’re subject to it.

They’re giving training to government families traveling abroad about what to do if they think they’re subject to it.

Does this training also cover symptoms of demonic possession?

as a radiologist, and regarding one of Milo’s points, the effects of major depression have in new studies apparently been shown by functional MRIs, but fMRIs are still somewhat limited, used mostly for brain mapping to determine the speech center and the motor cortex for people who are undergoing brain surgery. not that many people have had them though, and nothing in the reports by the victims that I’ve read has confirmed any MRI changes other than “brain aging”, which is nonspecific

As referenced in the other thread, cops who OD in the presence of fentanyl are also having real symptoms of something - a panic attack, whatever. But this is fed by the constant need to present as and believe themselves to be victims, endangered by their job.

― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, October 21, 2021 7:32 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

When medical first responders had panic attacks because of fentanyl, was it also because they were cry babies believing they are perpetual victims? You have so much hatred within you.

― Van Horn Street, Thursday, October 21, 2021 11:44 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I refuse to read the whole thread because I value my mental health but I think milo is describing this situation accurately? There's a good episode of The Politics of Everything podcast from Sep 29th that explored it well, I thought.

What to do if they think they’re subject to it, huh?

Hard to imagine how this spread to CIA stations across the globe.

The Langley field trip to the MBV concert without bringing ear plugs was a serious misstep, IMO.

i think a gun that gives CIA spooks headaches would be really funny

what if it made them poop themselves

what if there was a gun that made you sad

follow through syndrome sounds good

Brown Sound Array

Some people in Cuba had some vague symptoms - possibly crickets, possibly bad paint, possibly the knowledge of their eternal damnation wearing on their mind.

Glad you admit that there is a phenomenon separate from the CIA's claims about the phenomenon.

This is mass hysteria with people being manipulated by the beneficiaries.

This could very well be true! I just find the certainty and dismissiveness kind of obnoxious. If it's mass hysteria, that's still pretty interesting and worthy of investigation, IMO.

@ Dan S - did you see this one upthread?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/19007096v1

I'm not a radiologist (though a big fan of old-timey radio) but this study seems to indicate more specific findings than 'brain aging'? Though it could be pseudo-science gobblygook as well

Glad you admit that there is a phenomenon separate from the CIA's claims about the phenomenon.

An isolated incident is not a phenomenon, unless Havana crickets have been transported to Germany and Beijing.

It was immediately treated as an attack after three people experienced something. You cannot pretend that Havana Syndrome exists separate from the CIA's promotion of it.

With at least three intelligence officers now in severe distress, the C.I.A. and the State Department agreed. On February 17th, DeLaurentis visited Josefina Vidal Ferreiro, who was then the director-general of the U.S. division at the Foreign Ministry. He described the strange incidents and demanded that the harassment stop. Because U.S. intelligence agencies had no clear evidence that the Cubans were involved, DeLaurentis was instructed to tell Vidal that her government was culpable for failing to uphold the Vienna Convention requiring host governments to provide for the security of embassy personnel. Vidal reacted with disbelief, arguing that Cuba had always fulfilled its obligations to protect foreign diplomats. She found it “very suspicious” that DeLaurentis waited to report the incidents until mid-February, some seven weeks after the first American came forward.

I guess I shouldn't put the idea of Cuban biological weapon crickets out in the ether or they might find some necromancers to bring Colin Powell back from the dead.

When your paramilitary bosses tell you you're under attack, I wonder if there's a psychological and physiological response...

re: Andy's post, I love you but

"significant spatial memory impairment, abnormal brain-stem evoked potentials, degradation of fibre tracts in the fornix and posterior corpus callosum, blood-brain barrier injury to the right basal forebrain and anterior insula, and abnormal paroxysmal slowing events of cortical activity"

That is all just such horseshit

is this like when Manning leaked all those docs and everyone was handwringing about endangering spies? Fuck all spies!!!!

anyone else itt starting to feel....🤢🤢🤢

can someone please make a gif of the james bond gun barrel intro but instead of blood crawling down the screen it's barf

offgassing

I didn't mean to be harsh, sorry. I like all of the posts in this thread

I just find the certainty and dismissiveness kind of obnoxious.

speaking as someone who hates the CIA and is skeptical of this thing, you are not alone. it's certainly worth a thread about the "phenomenon" without milo's endless trolling

also, Raymond deserves better

"argue" is one of the 4 words in raymond's post and that's what milo's doing, i'm not reading his posts as bad faith trolling at all

I was intrigued by my best friend’s circumstances in med school. She was from DC. She told me her father was in the US Information Agency (active until 1999), and that he had moved the family all around the world - to Chad, Sri Lanka, Martinique

She was convinced he was a CIA agent, but he never shared anything about that with us. I was able to visit him when he got older, I liked talking to him, but he never gave anything away

this thread is massive tongue-biting for me.

https://quitmouthbiting.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/quit-cheek-biting-mouth-sores.png

I dated someone for a long time whose grandfather was described to me as “doing something vague with insurance” during the 50s-70s that required him to live in a number of Latin American and SE Asian countries. Always in a hotbed of recent military/ intelligence activity when we were Doing Democracy at them. I never met him but he sounded like a caricature of a WASP prick, and that was just according to his kids and grandkids.

yeah this is lies all the way down

yr mom defies the laws of physics as the west understands them

I think it's time to start issuing tin foil hats to State Dept. employees