Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

I mean, that's the way the comics were too IIRC

The show does seem to be missing (or probably more likely ignoring) the gist of the whole "what if?" premise, though. The Nick Fury one and the zombie one, for example, aren't about the repercussions of bad decisions or whatever, they're just basically ... what if something else happened, for some reason.

Huh? That is exactly the point of What If... ? as stated in pretty much every intro. It's not supposed to be about "bad decisions", just what happens if one tiny (or not so tiny) decision point changes things. I don't think it's ever been intended to just showcase bad decisions.

xpost Maybe? I can't remember. Some of these definitely do play into the premise, though. Unrelated, this zombie one only riffed on the (not What If) comic series source material, maybe because many of the major players aren't in the MCU yet. But the Marvel Zombies comic was all horror, but this one by necessity had to tone things down (despite the number of beheadings, eviscerations, etc.)

xpost again, But most of these are not about what if one tiny thing changes, most seem to be about what if one major thing is different. Like, the first one, sure, what if Carter became Captain America, fair enough. Or what if Strange messed up time to save someone. But the Nick Fury one was "what if someone murdered all the Avengers before they became the Avengers," and the zombie one was basically "what if the Hulk returned to a world where everyone was zombies because ... reasons." They're totally different worlds.

The Nick Fury one was "what if Hope Van Dyne joined SHEILD and died" and the zombie one was "What If Janet Van Dyne became a zombie in the quantum realm" but you obviously knew that because you watched them

Eh, I think it's just supposed to be a fun excuse to write a single-shot story that explores different settings/characters, not something that really requires a specific set-up.

NO jon THERE ARE RULES

lol my fault for not having seen the new episode yet!

(tbc I agree with you and am making fun of Josh)

no worries, I was picking that up.

Yeah, I guess I just saw those "what if" instigators as a sort of minimal means to an end to get the story going, which I know is the whole point. But tonally, things like the Dr. Strange one and the Black Panther Starlord one are I suppose a little more thought out than the hand-wavy "Oh, btw, Hank Pym found zombies in the Quantum Realm, because we need zombies" sort of stuff.

the only one i liked so far was the Agent Carter one

so far mostly these just feel like really boring fanfic which i guess they are

The plot of the Dr. Strange one was meh but the art of the cosmic creatures he was summoning was A+++++ and some of my favorite animation of this whole thing.

Spoilers for the zombie episode

Didn’t like the new one at all, apparently they are almost in reach of a cure but still beheading potentially curable people left right and centre while constantly quipping. They are sad when Hope dies for some reason, not sure why she gets special treatment. Or at least Peter cares, her dad doesn’t seem overly fussed.

Hope's dad... is Hank Pym? Who was a zombie early on in the episode?

I'm not sure you were actually paying attention to what happened

Observed elsewhere:

For those keeping score at home, this episode ends with the fourth “well, everyone is screwed now” cliffhanger in a row, and it’s also the third “everyone is dead now” episode in a row.

It really helps when they get the original cast members back!

That Avengers murder one was super grim, and they even got Michael Douglas to reprise his role, even though he sounded kind of half-assed

That Doctor Strange one was the biggest surprise for me honestly - and it really helped they m/l the whole main cast from the film back. Cumberbatch did a really great voice performance for it, and having McAdams play the role and not a sound-a-like made it more meaningful

What If issues regularly end on apocalypse hysterics so that's in line with the book
i can't do the cartoons for some reason, feels too meta to me

ok i enjoyed the zombie one

I guess tbf a lot of comics regularly regularly end on apocalypse hysterics, too, so it's all fitting. I suppose I'm just nonetheless surprised the What If cartoon has been so relentlessly grim. This is Disney+, not HBO Max.

It hasn't been relentlessly grim though. The T'Challa episode certainly wasn't and this week's might have been about zombies but was lots of fun and definitely had more of a comedy tone

Hope's dad... is Hank Pym? Who was a zombie early on in the episode?

I'm not sure you were actually paying attention to what happened

Mixed up my Ant-Men. Ok, that makes more sense

My son has been updating me every morning with a countdown until Shang-Chi hits Disney+.

My son talks about the MCU incessantly lately, he’s only a few of the movies, but watches these YT explainers. So it’s a lot of technical details about chronology and stuff; “isn’t it weird that people aged five years?”; do I think Tony Stark will ever be brought back; etc.

Haha yeah, my son does the same and works out these pretty intricate theories about what will happen that are always 100% wrong, but I'm convinced some of his dream storylines would be better.

Is there an actual release date yet?

I've seen theatrical release + 45 Days, so something like mid-October?

Yeah, that's what I've heard as well. My son started counting down from 45 last Friday, so according to him it's 39 days now... lol

may i strongly recommend that you guys look around on ebay or a local comic book store and get your kids a run of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe? It's just the thing for obsessive kids. It sure was for me. There's multiple versions but the 85-88 "Deluxe" volumes are the gold standard.
https://www.amazon.com/Official-Handbook-Marvel-Universe-Deluxe/dp/1302923641

if they do digital drop a line here and i can ysi

Would love to stumble across a reasonably priced copy of those, loved poring over the periodic ones that came out when I was a kid.

We got him one of those huge new encyclopedias they have now at the big box stores, but it doesn't hold a candle to those old Handbooks.

the DK books ain't shit TBH
they'd probably also benefit from Marvel Saga
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Saga

Oh yeah, it's not great, but he loves thumbing through it and it's better than nothing.

I wish What If was as exciting as the last fifteen seconds of the theme tune. Jeffrey Wright is so perfect on that.

Zombie one was best so far. I like how much the MCU is about taking Mark Millar ideas and removing the stink.

On today's walk to school, my kid mentioned a theory that the Tony Stark who died was actually a shape-shifting alien – "a 'Skype', I think they're called..."

xxp I have a bunch of those old Marvel Handbook issues in a box; I tried to get him to "help" when I sorted thru my comics recently, but he was barely interested. He has been reading some of the Michelinie/McFarlane Spider-Mans on his own... at least the first sexual innuendos he encounters will be in the context of a healthy, loving, superhero/fashion-model relationship.

Well, we do have a Secret Invasion show coming on D+ soon (the comic version of which revealed that a number of characters had been replaced by Skrulls several years before) (although the Skrulls are the goodies thus far in the MCU so who even knows what the show is gonna be about ultimately)

If y'all can track down the Essential Marvel versions (the black & white newsprint phone books) of the Handbook & Saga, those might be recommended. I know some volumes were fetching high prices but that was before the recent omnibus reprint.

To me all of the What If episodes, other than the great Boseman tribute one, were uninteresting and unfun. Even the premises are boring and the excecution is more so.

What If has always been kind of a sketchy concept imo, better in concept than in execution more often than not. I still haven't made it further than the first episode.

the second one is really good

Oh, that wasn't a dismissal, btw. Just a lack of much in the way of excitement. I'll get through it all eventually.

The zombie episode was better than I expected - ant-man's futurama head teaming up with the sentient cape was so dumb yet amazing, and vision feeding parts of t'challa to zombie wanda is super fucking dark. Also hope not shrinking herself while being overcome leading to a 100 foot tall zombie was kind of a dick move.

Black Panther being cut up for food is from Robert Kirkman's original series.

Interesting - I completely missed all those Marvel Saga series at the time

The first Marvel Zombies series was pretty good, and spin directly out of Ultimate Fantastic Four which certainly had its moments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VYb3B1ETlk

Not much of a a trailer (too much bang boom for me), but the brief glimpses of Kate being Kate are great.

It looks amazing.

For obvious reasons, some serious Die Hard vibes.

Disney just confirmed that all of their remaining 2021 movies will be theater only, including Eternals. Whatever, I know it's a business and a complicated situation, just annoyed that it's another industry ready to forge ahead as if the pandemic is in the rearview mirror.

Well it’s not industry-wide, but I guess Shang Chi was their “experiment” and it worked.