Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

I'm seeing that Pfizer is expected to have an EUA for under-12s by end of September? It's not like this is a far distant event, things are extremely in flux and progressing all the time. It's disingenuous to act like we can't do simple things temporarily until transmission rates are lower/the world is safer than it is now.

I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of it except for people who work in, for ex, service jobs and have to wear a mask for a whole shift/many hours.

Sorry, eephus--about the "wellness" weirdos, idk what to say. It's like when the NYT interviews someone who claims to be an "undecided" voter but whose views are all conservative/libertarian--they were never undecided or "independent" at all.

Mask-related question: Last year when PPE was scarce, I was seeing a lot of info about how to safely dispose of, remove, store, and re-sterilize masks. Haven't seen anything about that in a while. Are ppl just stuffing them in a pocket when you come out of a store? Throwing on the hall table? Washing?

I might order another pack of KN95s tbh. They're so comfortable, don't touch my face, and don't slip off my nose.

of all of the inconveniences and agonies of COVID-19, wearing a mask is so far down on the list it doesn't even scan

KF 94s are good too.

Until I got fully jabbed I double masked from January to mid April: surgical mask with cloth mask atop. I started double masking again if I'm going to be in public indoor spaces for more than 15 minutes -- for example, the library at which I'm typing this post.

I throw the surgical mask out once a week and wash the cloth ones every few days.

Nate Silver, I think, posed this chart:

https://i.imgur.com/fNaiguo.png

*posted

xxp re KF94s: Oh right! Those ones with the folds above and below. Good to know, thanks!

The question is not really "how long should people wear masks indoors," because indeed wearing a mask is pretty easy for most people, it's "how long should K-12 schools be held online," which is not pretty easy for most people.

It seems to me that in-person K-12 schooling is going to cause spread of COVID-19 among children, and presumably then from children to others, *whether children and teachers wear masks or not*. Masks slow spread to some extent. Much less than vaccines do, surely. They do not make you COVID-proof.

It also doesn't seem clear to me how big of a *difference* in-person schooling makes to spread of COVID-19 when people are in general no longer working at home, restaurants and bars are open, etc.

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, August 20, 2021 9:11 AM (fifteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

My kids' school already is in person, as are many around the country. It started in person in April last year, and it's slated to reopen in person. Agree masks don't make them COVID-proof, and I'm assuming unlike last year there may actually be some in-school spread this year, even in my highly vaccinated town.

I *think* the current recommendation remains to wash cloth masks after prolonged use (I don't wash mine after, like, five minutes or whatever), and then for most effective disinfecting, dry on hot, though we usually air dry. I've seen some guidance to dispose of masks after 10 uses or so, but I don't know if that means *all* masks or even why. Maybe they get too beaten up and loose? Disposable masks should be, yeah disposed of, though I don't know how long a wear requires that. Importantly, all masks lose effectiveness when damp or wet (from rain, sweat, slobber, etc.), and as I've had to remind my kids almost daily, after you're done with your disposable mask, don't forget to *dispose* of it, because a cootie catcher on the floor or in the car is still full of cooties.

I've heard doctors and medical professionals recommend *against* N95s, but I think that's because for a lot of people the risk of wearing an ill-fitted mask outweighs the benefits.

I thought schools across the US are generally going back to in-person this fall regardless of whether they were previously remote?

Yes, they are. And a lot of people aren't happy about it and think they should wait.

Not related to COVID but re the graphic above, I am once again asking people to fuck off with the idea that the "elites" are people with college degrees as opposed to people with money and power

I think what I'm trying to say is that "schools should mandate masks for now" makes total sense but "in-person schools with mask mandates are fine but in-person schools without mask mandates are a recipe for disaster" does not make sense, the two things are different and the former is better but I don't think the two things are *that* different.

I thought schools across the US are generally going back to in-person this fall regardless of whether they were previously remote?

― Captain Beefart (PBKR), Friday, August 20, 2021 10:45 AM bookmarkflaglink

ours already have

I don't think anyone's position is that in person schools with masks are perfectly "fine" or risk-free or whatever that's pretended to mean. I think they're probably the best harm-reduction strategy for students, teachers, and parents, all of whom have reported different kinds of suffering & harm from remote learning. At least until kids can get vaccinated, at which point I can see masking going more voluntary depending on what delta and other variants are doing at that point.

I think they're probably the best harm-reduction strategy for students, teachers, and parents

Agreed!

the thing about masks and their imperfections is that people were touting these imperfections all along when people thought the main way of spreading person-to-person was droplets, which are too small for many masks (surgical/cloth) to protect against.

but now we know COVID is airborne, and aerosols represent the majority of indoor spread, and masks do protect much better against those, especially those releasing them. so it is drastically reducing, if not eliminating risk. and that's important.

I have seen no evidence that masking does anything you could call "drastically reducing" risk of COVID. And droplets are bigger than aerosol particles, not smaller. Masks, esp. KN95 and up, almost surely reduce transmission to some extent, and they're easy and cheap -- that's why they're so good.

ps fwiw my two kids, one vaccinated and one two young, will both be attending in-person mask-mandated (but not KN95-mask-mandated) schools this fall.

all these posts and i still don't know what your point is man alive other than "just asking questions"

are we arguing "drastically reducing risk" vs "almost surely reduce transmission to some extent"?

I am, at least, because those are pretty different!

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6549/1439

Re: masks, I find at the very least they're a deterrent against touching your face and an innate reminder of the risks around us, so even if they did nothing they'd be doing something.

Where do you guys get your KN 95 masks? I look on Amazon and there’s lots of ones from China.

Masks are a deterrent against lots of things:

• touching your face
• talking too much or too loudly in public
• talking to assholes (you can tell they're assholes because they're not wearing masks)

if pfizer can get approved for under 12 vaccines in fall that's a huge deal in terms of a new influx of vaccinations that can move percentage of the population in a big way

Where do you guys get your KN 95 masks? I look on Amazon and there’s lots of ones from China.

― Bach on harmonica! (Boring, Maryland), Friday, August 20, 2021 10:34 AM (thirty-five seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

https://bonafidemasks.com/

a lot of counterfeit stuff on amazon

KN95 is the chinese grading system so they are iirc all from china

nobody under 16 can get immunised in the UK and we’re doing in-person schooling starting in two weeks with masks not mandated but “recommended” in “enclosed spaces”

wish us luck :(

Where do you guys get your KN 95 masks? I look on Amazon and there’s lots of ones from China.

Search for KF94.

I got'em on Amazon.

I just walk around and pick up all the discarded masks I see on the street and sidewalk then set them out for a week. Sunlight is the best disinfectant!

I bought KN95s from a site that caek recommended but I can't remember or find it now.

I bought mine from a store called Fake KN95 Masks because everybody who sells those masks lies so they must be lying that they're fake

I think what I'm trying to say is that "schools should mandate masks for now" makes total sense but "in-person schools with mask mandates are fine but in-person schools without mask mandates are a recipe for disaster" does not make sense, the two things are different and the former is better but I don't think the two things are *that* different.

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 20 August 2021 14:53 (one hour ago) link

Agree with this, I just come out on the open school anyway side. Masks will somewhat reduce spread, but I think the big differentiating factor is going to be districts where large majority of adults are vaxxed vs not (and kids as well once that's widely available). Of course, we may not be able to tell since there's such a high correlation between antivax and antimask. But I generally think masks in schools are a false sense of security. If you are one of the rare people who either can't get the vaccine or are extremely high risk in spite of it, I could totally understand sending your kids to school. I am willing to risk a breakthrough infection for my kids to attend school, and they are not high risk. I don't think that masks are going to make much difference between whether that happens or not.

*totally understand not sending your kids to school.

all these posts and i still don't know what your point is man alive other than "just asking questions"

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, August 20, 2021 10:07 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

My point is we need to adjust expectations away from the idea that we're going to vanquish COVID sometime in the near future and can just kind of hold out until then.

I mean the "goal line" in the sense of the point at which we in our respective countries mostly go back to "normal," not the ethical goal line. I don't think the UK or US would maintain capacity restrictions based on vaccination rates or antiviral availability in India

Will say despite all that it doesn’t feel remotely like “back to mostly normal”; I fear m@tt is otm re “normal”

Oh! It was protectly.co.

oh good, protectly is the one I just ordered lol

My point is we need to adjust expectations away from the idea that we're going to vanquish COVID sometime in the near future and can just kind of hold out until then.

I don't see anyone here with these expectations. In fact, people are saying this is here to stay and we're never going back to normal.

You are the only one that seems to be advocating a return to normalcy (ie why bother with masks and other precautions).

I'm seeing that Pfizer is expected to have an EUA for under-12s by end of September? It's not like this is a far distant event, things are extremely in flux and progressing all the time. It's disingenuous to act like we can't do simple things temporarily until transmission rates are lower/the world is safer than it is now.

I *do* think there are lots of people still promoting COVID zero out in the wilderness, but yeah, none of them are here on ILX.

I have heard that September will also being the full FDA approval for adult vaccine use.

This is here to stay and we will eventually get back to normal

xp bring not being

oh cool so all the people who told me they won't get it because it's not FDA approved are surely going to get it now