Is ADHD a real disorder?

All that shit is such a massive effort and I only manage any of it through brute force, and still I made a mistake this month which could have cost me my job, seems like an old story that "if you can manage it, then you don't have a problem" ignoring the immense strain managing it takes.

I was in the people didn’t believe I had it category until I was able to quantify how much time I lost every day at work, and sure enough it did eventually hurt me at work. I’m now still on Wellbutrin and my career pretty much took off after I got on it and also took some other measures like regular intense workouts, but I still had a really close call recently where I made a serious mistake but things worked out fine.

Thank you, this is helpful. I've been wondering whether I should just accept that the professional is right and I was wrong. But now I'm thinking I should try again, maybe in writing, to convey how much this feels like it's affecting my life.

The list of tips they sent is pretty much useless: keep a planner? yeah, if I could do that I would not have this shelf full of day planners with the first two pages filled out and the rest empty. Do one thing at a time? Great advice. How do I stop my brain from thinking, "ok, I have five things to do today, all of them complex, no idea which one I should start on first, so let's just read ilx all day instead"? How will scheduling little breaks and rewards into the workday (which I already do, of course) make me someone who can be like, "Hey, this job I have is a perfectly normal responsibility that requires a manageable level of attention and focus from me, so now I can take on an additional time-commitment, like a pet, or dating!"?

i feel like i posted that post. i would be so mad to be given that advice. like, i literally can't. or i can do one of those things for half a day before becoming too fatigued and slipping back into my normal pattern. i don't think you should accept a professional opinion just because they are a professional, it's still an opinion and they are wrong all the time. but do something before the inertia sets in, you know.

add me to the list of ilxors who didn’t realise this thread existed. i’m going to take a little time to read it now.

my 12-y-o was diagnosed with it last year, as well as oppositional defiant disorder, but it’s a spectrum obviously and chinaski your son’s symptoms sound much more severe than mine are.

that said i’ve been reading up about it and found a couple of good books. one in particular you might like lily (the only one that doesn’t focus on kids!) it’s called “delivered from distraction” and it’s by edward m hallowell and john j ratey.

I have had this over and over again with my older son, doctors teachers and school councillors - "he's fine, he doesn't make any trouble, nothing to worry about" - all infuriating, I just want some support but they cannot understand that I am not asking for drugs.

yes we have had drugs “suggested” a few times by the school’s special educational needs teacher which is like.. i feel like that’s not her call. to my mind my son is pretty far away from needing that level of chemical regulation. i don’t want to be defensive, and school staff can see things others can’t, but she doesn’t teach him. what we would like is a few adjustments for him if it’s possible. letting him have short breaks, letting him stand, etc

Thank you, this is helpful. I've been wondering whether I should just accept that the professional is right and I was wrong. But now I'm thinking I should try again, maybe in writing, to convey how much this feels like it's affecting my life.

The list of tips they sent is pretty much useless: keep a planner? yeah, if I could do that I would not have this shelf full of day planners with the first two pages filled out and the rest empty. Do one thing at a time? Great advice. How do I stop my brain from thinking, "ok, I have five things to do today, all of them complex, no idea which one I should start on first, so let's just read ilx all day instead"? How will scheduling little breaks and rewards into the workday (which I already do, of course) make me someone who can be like, "Hey, this job I have is a perfectly normal responsibility that requires a manageable level of attention and focus from me, so now I can take on an additional time-commitment, like a pet, or dating!"?

― Lily Dale, Monday, August 16, 2021 4:12 PM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

That reminds me of a standup comic joke I liked (forget the comic): the gist is "I'm pretty disorganized, so I hired a personal organizer, and one of the tips she gave me was to turn all the hangers in my closet the same way, and then every time I wear an outfit and hang it up again after washing turn the hanger the other way. At the end of the year, I should look at what clothing items had their hangers still turned the original way, and throw those out. And I thought 'if I could manage to do that, I wouldn't need a personal organizer in the first place.'" I'm sure it was better told, but you get the idea.

And yeah, I always found stuff like that useless. "Just keep a planner."

If I may recommend a book: The Power of Habit. You really don't need to read the whole book because the later parts are about "organizational habits" and I think they kind of stretch the concept too far, but the early chapters have some really helpful explanations of how to build habits, something that I find really helpful with ADHD. Basically anything you can "automate" in your life through habit will become that much easier to manage and take that much more of the mental load off. And you kind of do it by starting with one thing - he calls this a "keystone habit." It can be making the bed every morning or a brisk walk at lunch or whatever. Anyway read the book, it helped me.

This lecture (annoyingly broken up into a million tiny pieces but helpfully recompiled into a YouTube playlist) was helpful for me in recognizing some of the characteristics of ADHD & understanding why, for example, I have so much trouble with time management.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY

And the podcast ADHD Re-Wired has been helpful with actual like tips & tricks type stuff to inspire me to do things like activating Siri on my phone so I can get her to set reminders, create notes and lists etc while I’m driving (which is when I always seem to think of things that I need to remember, and can never remember what they were once I arrive at my destination). It’s kind of annoying so I take it in small chunks but it’s been genuinely helpful.

Sometimes when I forget/doubt I really have a disorder I think about certain types of things I will regularly do. For example, I run two dehumidifiers in my basement. The other day, I emptied both, but then got distracted by some other thing I needed to do and went upstairs. When I came back down I realized that I had left one of the dehumidifier bins (emptied) on the sink. I find this helpful to think about because obviously I was not being "lazy" -- I did the hard part of emptying the dehumidifier by carrying the bin to the sink and emptying it! Yet my mind pulled me away from the much easier part of the task, simply putting the bin back in the dehumidifier on the way back up. Similarly I'll often empty the kitchen recycling bin in the garage but then just leave it there. Occasionally I'll load the entire dishwasher, put in a pellet, and close it, but then just not make sure it turns on -- again, I did all the hard work, it's not laziness. There's no explanation for these behaviors other than either a disorder or I have some kind of weird perverse passive aggression on an unconscious level, and the latter doesn't really make sense since I do stuff like this when I'm alone.

My boy's symptoms are hugely impacted by anxiety at the moment but his time management is astonishing to me - almost like he exists on a different plane entirely. Lord only knows what that must be like to experience - especially when the world is constantly telling you you don't fit ('hurry up, ffs!' must be ringing in his ears, constantly). I really like the idea of lists and reminders for his phone

Tracer, my boy blatantly has aspects of ODD as well. The co-morbidity of the symptoms are fascinating (if that's the right word - I'm sure it's not fascinating to him). I totally hear you about school. I teach secondary and dealing with ADHD kids can be tricky, particularly for inflexible teachers who tend to see associated behaviours as 'naughty' and 'defiant'. I'm inclined to talk to the kid and ask how I can help - where's best to sit so they can roam if necessary, letting them know they go to the toilet for a break (as long as they don't take the, ah, piss) etc. Afternoons are always much worse in my experience.

I was listening to Josie long on Alexei Sayle’s podcast this afternoon and she was talking about here ADHD diagnosis. Something she said really resonated, along the lines of “… no matter how much I know something is good for me or will benefit me I just can’t make myself do it”

This is such a great encapsulation of a lifetime with ADHD, and makes me want to go back to a specialist, I feel like the understanding of the condition is some much better now than my experience as a child or as a medicated adult in grad school.

I think it is. So many of the visible consequences of it look EXACTLY LIKE carelessness, thoughtlessness, lack of consideration, downright rudeness etc - so without awareness of it, and that a certain person has it, we're talking about years of trouble with parents, partners, bosses etc who just don't understand how this person can be so thoughtless/rude/etc

I ended up sending the doctor a super long, detailed email, and it looks like I'll be scheduling a follow-up visit so I can tell her in person everything that I wrote and she can put it in the chart. This whole process fills me with misery and dread and I kind of wish I had never started it, but I know it's important.

good for you!!

thanks, Tracer. This thread has been really helpful and enlightening.

you’re a very clear writer so if what you wrote was even half as clear as what you write here i would imagine your doc will have another think about it. i doubt they get that level of feedback and explanation very often.

oh, thank you! Good to hear.

man alive's posts are making me feel more confident in bringing this up as an issue that i need medication for to my psych.

that thing where you don't complete the most important yet "easiest" part of a task... i leave like a trail of these in my wake for about 30 minutes on the odd days where i have energy to "do stuff". after that i'm too tired to remember what it was i started doing. i pat myself on the back for doing the smallest cleaning tasks imaginable, like "clean the inside of the toilet," and then that's my cleaning task for the day - the thought of doing more or some kind of sustained cleaning project is completely overwhelming.

work is very much the same thing. luckily i have a low-stakes job where it can actually be a feature to do less, not a bug... or am i simply telling myself that in order to justify spending most days doing nothing, lol.

that thing where you don't complete the most important yet "easiest" part of a task...

UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH yeah

in my mind once i think about something, ive already basically done it

otm

hi im trying to plan a lesson, i already have a basic idea of what it should look like (the fun challenging part), i dont have anything that the kids can use yet (the dry tedious part), im here and also listening to kanda bongo man (1hr+ youtube of an album so good) fuuuuuuuuuuck

great news: just finished half the lesson materials before switching over to my duolingo japanese lesson to extend my 48 day streak

Lily Dale, really glad my posts were actually helpful. If I can give you a piece of advice, it’s to let go of the idea that you will conquer your issues overnight. If you can implement just one improvement, eg a good habit, finding a medication that helps, identifying a thought pattern or anxiety that triggers your issues, treat that as a major victory and then protect that victory while looking for one more small (major) victory. There is no “get organized” for us. There are just small steps to take one at a time. Eventually if you can just make small progress you will look back in a few years and see how different you were.

Another tip: the best practices for me are usually the ones I identify myself out of necessity. Eg I miss a work call because I get distracted, that scares me, so I start setting an alarm for a couple minutes before the work call each time I schedule one. This kind of stuff is always better for me than anything I get from a book because I develop it myself and tailor it to my own needs.

one of these days i should get tested or this as it is immensely obvious it's a problem but i got so many immediate health problems already that it feels crazy to go prospecting for a new one.

I've been reading the Gabor Mat book as recommended by Chuck and it's really good - so many clear delineations of my kid's behaviour (and, to be fair, lots of my own).

I suspect Tim Ferriss is a bit of a bell end, but his interview with Mate is good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9B5mYfBPlY (it's also available as a podcast).

Some quality ADD formatting there.

As long as we're sharing links, are you guys aware of the HUGE amount of ADHD content on TikTok? Basically, explainer vids where kids and adults break down their habits and how they connect to the classic symptoms. As you can imagine the quality is hugely variable. But I get this sense that so many people are feeling incredibly validated by having a kind of codex that helps them makes sense of something that's been an issue to a greater or lesser degree their whole lives.

This guy though is a step beyond. I think he's incredible. Each video is just one little thought but I really dig this guy. You can see he's basically dedicated his professional life to thinking about these sorts of things and he has such a great way of talking about it.

https://www.tiktok.com/@chrink3

wow he's great. the post its that say "slow down" reminds me of how i used to write that at the top of my notes in court sometimes

I've watched two videos and I love him already. (I've had to coax my boy down from the garage roof twice today - he couldn't face the stairs. What a world.)

The roof?? Man.

Lily this one made me think of your situation -

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRLK7Eng/

Thanks for the ADD.

So, reading Gabor Mate's Scattered Minds and it's like an individual case study of my son in places. Thank you so much for the recommendation, Chuck Tatum (I sent webmail; no idea if it actually made it through!). Also recognising quite a few of the symptoms in myself, which is interesting and makes total sense, really.

being properly medicated is… crazy. wish i’d figured this out, well, 15 years ago. in any case, pursuing a diagnosis is absolutely worth it. i’m learning so much

I'm glad it's working for you. I really need to get help sometime soon. I've been procrastinating this for years.

Procrastinating for years is definitely a sign that you might be afflicted, sad + all-too-familiar lol.

i am doing this tomorrow (not in a procrastinating sense, i really do have an appointment tomorrow)

not really a condition that makes you good at making appointments

No, it really isn't.

To wit: I unintentionally tapered off the last of my medication at the start of the pandemic back when I thought it was just gonna be a brief bump in the road (hahahahaha, were we ever so naive) but, after doing surprisingly well for a while, I had really been struggling lately. Little ability to focus or stay on task, forgetting things I didn't usually forget, lots of little things that used to be NBD increasingly feeling like an uphill slog, complex thought or planning basically an impossibility, etc. So after a year and a half of intending to but always putting it off, I finally booked a phone appointment with my doctor last week. And it was the easiest thing in the world. So but well I started back on my meds this weekend and...it's been a little rough. I've never had any adverse effects from ritalin aside from some dry mouth, and I've gone off for stretches in the past and ramped back without issue, but the last couple of days I felt like I was on cheap trucker speed or something. All jitters and frayed nerves and other sensations that weren't particularly conducive to high focus. It reminded me of an unpleasant experience with taking too much No-Doz back in my college days. Thankfully, today has been a little smoother so far, but I sure would hate to think that these meds might not be a good fit for me anymore, because they have demonstrably and immensely helped me in the past and I haven't really found anything else that did the trick.

one anecdote i’ve picked up on while doing further reading is people trying cocaine and it ‘not doing anything for them’, then they get an adhd diagnosis later in life and go ‘ah,’

While we’re on the subject of recreational drugs and ADHD, does everyone else find that pot does the opposite for you that it does for most people? Everyone’s like “yeah, I smoke a joint and I just m e l l o w o u t” and I’m like “itakeonelittlehitandimwiredforhourswithmymindracingmadlyoffinalldirections”

i haven't done it in a long time but yeah

i love pot but that does indeed happen

does it to me often (I don't think I have adhd? I don't really know)

I have that experience sometimes. It can get bad. The other night I accidentally ate too much and was wired for hours just watching a brain movie of everything that's wrong with my life. I usually try to keep my doses small and avoid combining with caffeine.

"a brain movie of everything that's wrong with my life" is an accurate description of why i stay away from it!

i have that effect sometimes but it's about 50/50. usually a good experience when i keep it to a microdose.

This is interesting anecdata! Because yeah, that's kinda been my experience more often than not. Which is probably why I've never done it much. One time in college it felt like all of my constituent atoms were flying off in different directions and I didn't like it one bit.