Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

We’re not staying in lockdown forever and immune compromised people aren’t going away.

I would love to continue NP interventions until kids and everyone else who wants to or can be persuaded can get vaccinated. But the NPIs required to stop everyone delta it in the next 6 months say are politically out of the question. They’d need to be way stricter than anything we had last year.

Everyone getting delta

But the NPIs required to stop delta in the next 6 months

iirc my repeated policy proposal takes effect six months ago

(okay, we're two days short of it. time stretches in the pandemic.)

Yeah I mean we are where we are. “Herd immunity” was a psychopathic policy a year ago. But when the implied case rate in the UK is around 2m/week despite a relatively very high vaccination rate 1) we don’t have moves we can make that would do much more than delay everyone getting it 2) and because most of those cases are mild and/or undetected the moves we could make to delay are politically untenable.

I’ve been coming to terms with “get vaccinated or get covid” for a couple of weeks and was just getting there when this news came out https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccines-kids-under-age-12-expected-mid-winter-fda-official-n127405. Seems inevitable that literally all kids are going to get it in the next few months.

Seems silly to worry about this when almost all adults globally are unvaccinated but, well, I have kids.

In the UK it's currently get vaccinated, get COVID... fingers crossed it doesn't kill you or cause any longterm damage. Technically that's England rather than the UK but a whole load of maskless cunts getting trains from England to Scotland, for instance, will soon make sure it's a truly United Covingdom.

Made sense to do them en masse pre-vaccine

Most of the world IS pre-vaccine!

We're not discussing govt policy in most of the world

The thread caek shared was very US-centric.

Also the author didn't say Never enact NPI, let's all dry hump each other at center court of MSG.

He's pointing out in countries that have vaccinated a lot of their pop, NPI is kicking the can down the road and the effects now may be damaging

is there any way in which the existence of the rest of the world could possibly impact on these policies

Anyway, we are still delivering a half-million doses of vaccine in the US every single day. That 80% of the 65+ population in this country is fully vaccinated is a triumph, which puts a great big damper on the human cost of the disease. But I also believe we can get that remaining 20% down to 10% in the near-term, and that makes it worth it to slow the thing down.

let's all dry hump each other at center court of MSG.

The dry humping will be taking place at Fiserv Forum my friend

caek pointed out the NPI would need to be way stricter than anything we'd had earlier to be effective with a variant this contagious. I won't speak for caek but I would assume that means:

-actual hard lockdowns, meaning citations for being out and about or possibly arrests
-fewer 'exceptions' to the rule about staying home, meaning possibly you can't even leave to go to the grocery store (must do delivery)
-schools all virtual again
-work all virtual again (or closed) - certainly meaning the closures of many businesses because lol at this split Congress passing anything worthwhile
-a longer lockdown (meaning several months, like many other countries imposed)
-therapy sessions for those in distress have to be done virtually (as someone who's done these, these types of sessions are useless compared to in-person)

and then as soon as lockdown ends, the spread resumes at its catastrophic rate once more, only having been slightly deterred.

the original strain of COVID , we were able to flatten the curve and buy our hospitals some time. as infectious as that strain was, Alpha was 60% more infectious. and Delta is 60% more infectious than Alpha. which means the same tactics from earlier have less efficacy.

not to mention, psychologically speaking, some of us are at our breaking points rn and might not be able to handle a lockdown. I supported and abided by the original lockdown in FL. I was one of the first to mask and I'm fine continuing to wear them. but being cooped up in a house for 3 months with the same people every day and getting zero respite, I don't know if I could do again without becoming an outright alcoholic or drug addict.

i don't know the solutions, I don't think anybody does. I think some folk itt seem to think it easier than it actually is (not speaking about you, eephus!)

the other challenge is that countries that did a lot of locking down and re-opened as Delta was arriving are now finding themselves with low levels of natural infection which means the disease is spreading like wildfire amongst those who aren't vaccinated because nobody had the opportunity to get infected. not that we should have adopted the UK's original 'herd immunity' strategy and intentionally let them all get infected, no, but it shows one of the downsides of excess lockdowns is that the disease has much more room to spread.

we need to try and funnel as much vaccines to foreign countries as possible and we're way behind the curve on that and frankly it's inexcusable. in countries with low vaccination rates, some of these measures of NPI definitely need to be adopted, but that's what the Tweeter said to begin with. that there are reasons it is necessary, but that in many cases they're ineffective.

Anyway, we are still delivering a half-million doses of vaccine in the US every single day. That 80% of the 65+ population in this country is fully vaccinated is a triumph, which puts a great big damper on the human cost of the disease. But I also believe we can get that remaining 20% down to 10% in the near-term, and that makes it worth it to slow the thing down.

The San Francisco numbers for that age range are at a very slow crawl still but it is happening -- as of today, 92% with one shot and 84% with two. It was kinda hovering at 90/80 for a long long while but there seems to have been a steady increase in uptake over these last few weeks. Which, good.

-actual hard lockdowns, meaning citations for being out and about or possibly arrests
-fewer 'exceptions' to the rule about staying home, meaning possibly you can't even leave to go to the grocery store (must do delivery)

Nothing like this ever happened where I live (Wisconsin) so please understand that I am not talking about lockdown, I am talking about much milder measures like what I've already lived through. And not talking about re-virtualizing schools either. Whether those milder measures would do anything to materially slow the disease is an empirical question but I don't understand the case that they don't. If I have half as many in-person interactions with people (not none, not CLOSE to none) that's half the opportunities for transmission. That's a big deal! (At least potentially. I understand that there's a whole complicated THING about how maybe big rare superspread events are the whole ballgame and individual choices don't matter much except insofar as they involve long indoor raves or whatevs but I'm not fully convinced by that.)

Did I just see that the UK did not approve Pfizer or Moderna for under 16?

You know what, maybe just strike my recent posts in this thread because I think what's really going on is I'm reading that guy saying "well NPI's aren't effective anyway" as saying "every sacrifice eephus made in the last year was for nothing, what a dumb chump," and while I understand that it can be read that way and for all I know is meant that way, my emotional reaction to it is a me problem not a thread problem

Idk where you’re from eeph but Covid is pretty low round Sheboygan because we were literally in the Top 10 nationwide in October (along with Manitowoc) - I do feel a bit more comfortable knowing all the irresponsible folk around here probably got it already

there should be an option to report and get someone temporarily banned on Twitter for advancing nonsense COVID theories without the appropriate background. the sheer amount of amateur research by people who do not know what the fuck they're talking about is alarming, as well as the idiots who actually buy into it and RT it.

not going to get rid of that, of course, but anything to cut it down would be nice.

also Feigl-Ding needs to be banned.

the local supermarket was listed as a covid exposure site and I’m just thrilled with how the supermarket has come out and said “no we aren’t” while pretending to be nsw health pic.twitter.com/L84IxYAkly

— keen online poster (@keen_poster) July 19, 2021

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes

Researchers have found just 12 people are responsible for the bulk of the misleading claims and outright lies about COVID-19 vaccines that proliferate on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.

"The 'Disinformation Dozen' produce 65% of the shares of anti-vaccine misinformation on social media platforms," said Imran Ahmed, chief executive officer of the Center for Countering Digital Hate, which identified the accounts.

...After this story published on Thursday, Facebook said it had taken down more of the accounts run by these 12 individuals.

These figures are well-known to both researchers and the social networks. They include anti-vaccine activists, alternative health entrepreneurs and physicians. Some of them run multiple accounts across the different platforms. They often promote "natural health." Some even sell supplements and books.

...Many of the 12, he said, have been spreading scientifically disproven medical claims and conspiracies for years.

Which provokes the question: Why have social media platforms only recently begun cracking down on their falsehoods?

who are the 12? the story doesn't name them directly. but it links to this, which does

https://i.imgur.com/hDfYnRw.png

found six of them:

https://i.imgur.com/VCWH83y.jpg

and all six were Van Morrison

Had no idea Right Said Fred had so many members

God damn Berenson is going to grind even harder now that he didn't make the top 12

The University of Indiana’s new policy requiring that all students, faculty, and staff receive mandatory COVID-19 vaccinations before returning for the fall semester does not violate the U.S. Constitution, a federal judge ruled on Monday.

“Under guiding principles of federalism, our Constitution preserves the power of the States, within constitutional limits, to adopt laws to provide for public health and safety,” U.S. District Judge Damon R. Leichty, an appointee of Donald Trump, wrote in a lengthy 101-page decision. “Twice the United States Supreme Court has upheld state authority to compel reasonable vaccinations. The States don’t have arbitrary power, but they have discretion to act reasonably in protecting the public’s health.”

Indeed, the Supreme Court determined more than a century ago that vaccine mandates were permissible, the judge noted.

“To answer the question today, the court travels back in time to 1905: a time before the modern tiers of constitutional analysis (strict scrutiny and rational basis) and one rampaged by the smallpox epidemic,” the ruling notes, citing the case of Jacobson v. Commonwealth of Massachusetts. “In that year, the United States Supreme Court issued a leading decision in answer to this question.”

The Supreme Court extended Jacobson’s holding on the constitutional permissibility of vaccine mandates to school districts in the 1922 case of Zucht v. King.

Citing both longstanding precedents, Judge Leichty’s ruling rejects a request from eight students to block the policy from going into effect.

Be interesting to see if that leads to more campuses to require it of staff and faculty as well. Where I work, as seems to be the majority of ones around here, it is currently required for students but not for faculty/staff (to my chagrin).

Heh, I'm walking around Bloomington right now.

Say hi to my brother for me.

Yo, bro!

Older Lunch?

Breakfast

Let's see if this lasts into the evening

There seems to be a concerted effort today by Fox's daytime news shows to promote the vaccines to its audience.

Dr. Marc Siegel says "the Delta variant needs to be a wake-up call to get vaccinated."

Anchor John Roberts then directs viewers to the government vaccine website. pic.twitter.com/T5b21nXCfe

— Justin Baragona (@justinbaragona) July 19, 2021

And over on Fox Business, they are also now pushing viewers to visit the government's vaccine website so they can get vaccinated. pic.twitter.com/bYFt1r335j

— Justin Baragona (@justinbaragona) July 19, 2021

Absolutely unequivocally great news, I don't care that they're assholes, this is a job only they can do

wonder if some legal action is brewing?

It wouldn't be the first time daytime diverted a little from the path. As Ned says, the important test will be to see if this carries over into the evening shows.

Interesting to see that the American Academy of Pediatrics is recommending masks for anyone inside schools over the age of 2, regardless of vaccination status. I think it's the right move, especially in elementary and middle schools where the majority of students aren't yet eligible (and won't be until halfway through the year, if recent reporting on the timelines for approval hold). Of course it doesn't have a lot of teeth, but it's nice to see some firm guidelines than the CDC's "rip 'em all off your faces and hope no one is dishonest" approach.

Reasons for this recommendation include, but are not limited to: a significant proportion of the student population not yet being eligible for vaccination; masking protecting those who are not vaccinated against COVID-19 and reducing transmission; and potential difficulty in monitoring or enforcing mask policies for those who are not vaccinated.

It wouldn't be the first time daytime diverted a little from the path. As Ned says, the important test will be to see if this carries over into the evening shows.

Interesting to see that the American Academy of Pediatrics is recommending masks for anyone inside schools over the age of 2, regardless of vaccination status. I think it's the right move, especially in elementary and middle schools where the majority of students aren't yet eligible (and won't be until halfway through the year, if recent reporting on the timelines for approval hold). Of course it doesn't have a lot of teeth, but it's nice to see some firm guidelines than the CDC's "rip 'em all off your faces and hope no one is dishonest" approach.

Reasons for this recommendation include, but are not limited to: a significant proportion of the student population not yet being eligible for vaccination; masking protecting those who are not vaccinated against COVID-19 and reducing transmission; and potential difficulty in monitoring or enforcing mask policies for those who are not vaccinated.

I'm sure the genie will just slip right back into that bottle, no problem.

sorry for the double post, not sure what happened there

wonder if some legal action is brewing?

Might have something to do with this.

Fox News has put in place a Covid vaccine passport system for its own work force, @ryangrim scoops. https://t.co/pPzhpY5P83

— Sam Stein (@samstein) July 19, 2021

Emphasis on 'might'

This is happening too:

Psaki: What I’m asking you is if information related to whether or not the former President got credit is leading people not to get vaccinated… pic.twitter.com/M82veiA7sf

— Acyn (@Acyn) July 19, 2021

this is good news for Scotland:

More good news for Scotland - cases have been falling for a couple of weeks and now the number of people in hospital with a positive COVID diagnosis looks to have started to fall too. pic.twitter.com/Hd7bVWWoPB

— Colin Angus (@VictimOfMaths) July 19, 2021

also a correction to a stat given in a press conf today

That 60% stat from the UK? Apparently not quite right https://t.co/yPsaTt5fLK

— Meg Tirrell (@megtirrell) July 19, 2021

this is good news for Scotland:

The bad news is it's attached to England, Land of the Free.

Well, yeah.

That's been bad news for Scotland since forever.

Supposedly not the first time he's said this, but notable in light of the daytime coverage posted upthread:

Hannity: Please take COVID seriously pic.twitter.com/mTy4gpYZ17

— Acyn (@Acyn) July 20, 2021

this is...weird? Have they gotten a memo? Has someone threatened a class action suit?