Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

I mean, no more than Chiwetel Ejiofor in Doctor Strange? She was never the main villain (but she filled in when they were short handed) but she'll be her own person when we see her next.

Nah, I mean more in terms of the flashback to before she was presumably kidnapped into serving the TVA and showing her disappearing through one of those portals and not showing up for the rest of the episode. Again, surely setting up S2, but it felt like a loose end.

wild to see the show’s commitment to “socially distanced Dr Who on digital sets” carry through to emulating the last Chibnall finale, in which the hero stands still in a room while the baddie delivers a forty-minute expository infodump about how a sinister force of mysterious time cops actually had a very slightly different backstory, but specifically not different enough that the twist recontextualises or challenges the protagonists’ last several millennia of actions in any way

Yeah. I think it’s unfair to compare this to Chibnall’s trainwreck (not least because most of Loki has been good, and all of Chibnall’s work has been bad) but it did come to mind. In the moment I thought more of that terrible exposition scene in the second matrix movie.

And also (apologies in advance) the 57th issue of Doom Patrol, another expositionary everything-you-know–is-wrong story, except in that case, the clues are laid in advance, and it all feels a lot more organic.

I really enjoyed the whole show, particularly the bits where they just wound up some actors and set them at each other. That said I don't think it would have been improved by another few weeks of "I trusted you!" / "And I'm asking you to trust me again" / "I swear Mobius, once last chance" - it did that well, but it got out when it should.

That said I can't really consider it in the same league as Wandavision?

I thought the contrast of putting someone who thinks he’s always five steps ahead of everyone up against someone who actually was ( million steps ahead of everyone was neat

Yeah, it varies by writer of course, but MCU Loki is far more "have a few good ideas and improvise" - and his greatest tragedy is the result of that going wrong.

re: Black Widow there were a lot more brooding silences in rural cottages than i expected

I liked the Loki finale. For one, I do actually like the reveal/tease of a Season 2, which was never promised and which neither of the other two shows promised, either. Second, I liked Majors a lot in this, since his variant is clearly more or less an insane Wizard of Oz, having juggled lots of information for eons, but they need to show him like this so that when he *does* return in more ruthless form the effect will be that much more dramatic. Third, I even like the cliffhanger, which I thought was less "no one knows who Loki is" and more a demonstration that the timeline has already been instantly, radically altered. And honestly, it doesn't even feel like a "wait til season 2" cliffhanger, because all this stuff is tied in the movies, which are imminent.

Speaking of which, I haven't had a chance to see Black Widow yet, but the bummer seems to be the need to get past that, Shang Chi and (possibly) the Eternals to get back to a big picture arc, though that (plus the pandemic) probably explains the need/desire to release 4 MCU features all in the span of just six months, with Spider-man 3 poised to be the/a big Christmas payoff. Dr. Strange and Thor 4 come out right on their heels, though, in equally quick succession. In fact, the MCU films will be shooting out at such a rapid pace I'm not even sure when or how the upcoming TV shows will fit in. They worked super well filling the void of the pandemic, but going forward I have no idea what they're up to. A major movie or TV show almost every month?

Disney+ needs a big Marvel or Star Wars show to premiere every month to retain subscribers, m/l i think

I was surprised there's no firm date on the next live action MCU show. The animated What If show comes soon but the animated streaming spinoffs don't get the same buzz.

I have a feeling that What If will be more canonical than one might expect, just as the animated Spider-man movie was the venue that introduced the multi-verse.

Have we talked about how much Black Widow apparently made through streaming? Something like $60 million, right? That's crazy. The TV shows are a real boon, too, since they can both fill in narrative gaps (thus requiring a subscription) but also work as stop gaps, too, between theatrical releases, also requiring a subscription for anyone needing a fix. TV is innately so much more accessible, too, in the literal sense. Even beyond, you know, a deadly pandemic, going to the movies is often a PIA, and I suspect with Disney+, Marvel is actually broadening its fanbase to include more casuals, folks perhaps curious when stuff like WandaVision or Loki get positive reviews and nominations broader than the usual genre cohort. Shows like those somehow, against all odds, can imo be starting points for folks who might then want to work their backwards through the rest of the catalog. They're weighted with mythology and references, but they feature strong casts/acting and production values that no doubt help carry those who don't know Kang the Conqueror from Carrot Top.

Seems like they've been waiting until the eleventh hour to drop a firm release date on the new series. I assume Hawkeye is still next up after What If?

I know it's a pipe dream but I wish they would've just insta-released Black Widow on blu-ray since I buy physical copies of all the MCUs anyway. I'm not champing at the bit to rush back into the theater just yet (but would've otherwise been there opening weekend), and $30 to stream a single movie on a service I already pay for just seems like a joke. So I guess I just sit here twiddling my thumbs until my gf finally succeeds in pressuring me into forking over my cash.

I thought hawkeye show was announced for september re: future schedulig

*scratches chin* Well given the Black Widow post-credits scene, that would be good timing...

It looks like Ms. Marvel is the only other show coming out in 2021, and it's not supposed to drop until the end of the year. So I guess there's not gonna be much more MCU until fall.

Well, Shang Chi comes out in only about a month and a half from now, and then it's barely that long between most releases for the foreseeable future. Plus What If, Hawkeye and Ms Marvel in the mix, though Marvel has shown itself to be pretty nimble when it comes to switching up its schedule. That's another advantage of the Disney+ model: flexibility.

Kate Herron’s not returning for season 2. Huge bummer - she did a tremendous job.

https://deadline.com/2021/07/loki-director-ep-kate-herron-says-shes-not-returning-for-season-2-1234794552/

Oh. Maybe they don't already have the second season filmed after all.

Hope they retain the composer

S2 announcement I suspect was (relatively) on the fly. Certainly keeps Hiddleston on retainer, given time travel/multiverse gives them the leeway to pretty much tell and retell any story with any character they want ad infinitum.

hiddleston is EP

So he's got his piece already I guess. He's the fun key to it all, of course. I'd probably watch a one-man "Loki on Broadway."

Loki Unplugged

Loki: One-Man Acoustical Jam

Boiler Room: Asgard

Loki Live At The Improv

Loki: Laid-Back and Low-Key

Loki Live at the Apollo

Loki: Turn Off the Dark

haha, they should make the Spiderman musical canon and integral to understanding the rest of the MCU

If that somehow ends up in the new movie at the end of the year it will all have been worth it.

i was frankly stunned at how bad black widow was: terrible editing, shitty script, muddy action sequences, overlong runtime, johansson barely making much of an effort, bombastic overbearing score, tonal confusion throughout. dumb twitterspeak repartee, brutal murder, emotional awakening or expensive fx? Why not everything all at once for two hours? the right answer is because it liquifies into a slurry of meaningless nonsense without stakes or engagement but somehow no one thought to point that out. Johansson and Winstone aside, the acting is an occasional saving grace, particularly Pugh and Harbour who seem to be in a much better movie. I would've liked to have watched that one instead of this one. This one was boring.

Black Widow was a lot of fun. I look forward to Yelena chasing down Clint

I felt it was one of the more ambitious MCU movies: human trafficking, sexism and unorthodox, but actually really relatable, family dynamics. Loved it really.

I enjoyed Black Widow. It does seem like it's the least essential MCU movie by far, but it works well as a standalone Bond-style romp. Cool to see various moves from previous MCU movies back in Taskmaster's moves.
Agreed that Pugh and Harbour were especially strong. I don't get what people have against Ray Winstone (on here is not the first time that I see him being written off). I quite enjoyed him as a soft-spoken completely remorseles controlling sociopath who could get dangerously aggressive.

There's a transition at the end of the movie that seemed pretty weird though: when Natasha stayed behind to await General Ross and the military, then in the next scene, at a later moment, gets a plain to help her fellow Avengers, is it simply left to the viewer's imagination to explain whatever happens inbetween?

Still haven't had a chance to see this, but the number of places I've seen describe it as a standalone Bond-styled romp underscores that there is no hurry. I like all these Marvel movies, more or less, but I've come to prefer the space/magic/fantasy side of them over the well-trained-ninjas subset.

contemporary bond movies are more cohesive and better crafted than this, which is pretty damning.

Contemporary Bond movies are fun, too

i'm beginning to understand why we're diverging on this topic

You hate fun? *runs away*

i am pro-fun; i am anti-dour, badly edited OTT killfests without purpose or engagement
i liked loki a lot though i have thoughts on the somewhat pro-fascist conclusion

i am anti-dour, badly edited OTT killfests without purpose or engagement

are you sure watched Black Widow and not, like, Faces of Death

xpost Unless I misunderstand your point, I wouldn't say it was pro-fascist so much as it was a presentation of a fascist promoting his agenda as the only reasonable choice (in the same way that Infinity War wasn't really pro-Malthus).

You get my general point, but the fascist propagandizer isn’t Kang or Loki but Disney.

“Dour” is a bond reference; for BW, substitute “variably maudlin and insouciant”

“Dour” is a bond reference; for BW, substitute “variably maudlin and insouciant”

“Dour” is a bond reference; for BW, substitute “variably maudlin and insouciant”

“Dour” is a bond reference; for BW, substitute “variably maudlin and insouciant”

Dang zing