Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

An alternate opening and ending frame the movie as a flashbacks from Agent Maria Hill (Cobie Smulders), allowing them to simultaneously flesh out her dislike towards Fury's methods and her undying loyalty to S.H.I.E.L.D.

(about The Avengers!)

Back to Loki… finale was slightly underwhelming and a tad exposition-heavy, but still very enjoyable. Easily the best of the three MCU shows so far.

easily better than wandavision? the highs of wandavision were very high indeed imo

I haven't watched the finale of Loki yet, but don't think it has been nearly as good as WandaVision.

xpost ok maybe on par, in the sense that both shows were pretty amazing overall but somewhat whiffed the ending.

Or I just like Loki more because it pushes all my buttons i.e. time travel shenanigans and Owen Wilson.

Very interesting Loki finale, actually seems to be hugely important in staging the next MCU phase.
Can I boast about the fact that I thought of Immortus on here a week ago, and while Jonathan 'set to star as Kang' Mayors' character in here was referenced as "He who remains"/"called many things: (...) a conqueror", this variant was clearly mostly based on Immortus

Loki is the only one that that came close to nailing the landing of the three so far. Looking back, Wandavision’s may be the worst by a good distance.

Loved Jonathan Mayors in the Loki finale and LOVED Black Widow. Overall I think Loki was kind of dull considering all the ideas and opportunities it had, but that final performance makes me feel hopeful for the future.

And I may be overreacting to Black Widow but I found the THEMES and a lot of the execution genuinely touching and refreshing. Top tier MCU for me.

I thought the last episode of Loki to be the best of the series. Loved the "villain" and excited for what's to come.

Black Widow definitely surpassed my expectations. Marvel films are consistently solid to me with only a small number of them beating that bar, but this one did. It juggled skillfully between being funny, exciting, tense, and moving. Two very good new characters too (Pugh's and Harbour's)

Conclusion of Loki was fascinatingly tense from where I sit. Hope to catch BW this weekend.

Loki felt like it was about seven episodes too short.

Thus a second season you see

Finale kinda underwhelming but damn what a performance

Regarding Loki, kind of annoyed less by the surprise! there's going to be a season 2 so we'll leave a million threads dangling but I guess that's far more normal for streaming shows.

Overall, great series. I may give Wanda the edge over it for its higher peaks and moments of weirdness. Better than Falcon, but that was still very fun.

I love the way Loki resembles the monthly comics,with a different story/genre/status quo every episode, random plot swerves, and a solid ensemble cast to hold things together (the best superhero comics are ensemble series or ensemble series in disguise).

That said, while I’m super glad there’ll be another season, I thought this episode was probably the weakest so far (not enough Loki or Loki/Möbius!) and the “no one remembers you” cliffhanger felt a bit “because the plot says so”.

Am I the only one who found Jonathon Majors super annoying? I hate that kind of faux-Robin Williamsy madcap acting. Sylvie is great though! Prob my fave MCU “improvement” on the original comics character, alongside Vision’s recasting s as an English fop in the TV show

the “no one remembers you” cliffhanger felt a bit “because the plot says so”.

I thought this was a cool way of showing what I assume is a major point of the new MCU - we are now dealing with the classic Marvel multiverse with various timelines and multiple versions of all the characters.

Now I'm just waiting for my Squadron Supreme 12-episode limited series.

I thought Loki did a very admirable job in bringing the huge scale cosmos to life in a way that felt very true to Marvel comics.

I just thought of this: multiverse allows MCU to sub new actors in for the aging originals.

if the MCU's popularity actually survives moving into "the classic Marvel multiverse with various timelines and multiple versions of all the characters" I will be impressed slash deeply dismayed

I just don't feel like I needed so much discussion of Loki's motivation for things. "Hi, I'm Loki, I'm the Norse god of mischief" is really all I need to know. Now let's get mischiefing. I don't care about his angst or whatever. Let's have some FUN.

I'm assuming they are only going to focus on the multiverse for Phase IV, but having introduced it - it'll be a handy way to roll in any other recastings or character rebrandings necessary when they get to Phase VII, or whatever.

I can't see any reason to assume they'll pay it any more mind than they did with Terrence Howard -> Don Cheadle.

Sorry, to be clear, I'm not talking that kind of recasting. I'm talking more like the Natalie Portman taking over the Thor role or Falcon becoming Cap (though I know these aren't multiverse related), it opens up the door for much wider nets to be cast for reinventing the role entirely.

Am I the only one who found Jonathon Majors super annoying? I hate that kind of faux-Robin Williamsy madcap acting.

i teetered back and forth. i enjoyed when he would dip into a british accent, presumably to mock the lokis

I liked this series. I do wish they leaned more into the bits of “Loki trying to outwit hierarchy/bureaucracy” that the first couple eps spotlit

I preferred the finale of this more than the two people flying up in the sky and spinning their hands at each other malarkey of wandavision. sometimes it's ok to just sit and talk.

Yeah, this was the best of the three shows, for sure.

I guess it was such a short series because they went in intending to split the episodes into two seasons, with the second season to air after some movie that's affected by the events in episode six. Like I just assume the top secret season two has already been filmed.

I just realized that the TVA pruned Terrence Howard

Ultimately what I loved about this show was its cocky confidence to go from weird to epic to small-scale (just like comics do!) and almost always pulling it off. Felt like the visuals were way superior (and more interesting!) than 95% of the movies. And what I missed was the sense of ambiguity about Loki's redemption - since the third episode, it's never seemed like he wasn't the good guy. I missed some of that Loki-is-always-five-steps-ahead-of-everything feeling.

And of course, cool to see a ILX poster thanked in the credits

I thought the contrast of putting someone who thinks he’s always five steps ahead of everyone up against someone who actually was ( million steps ahead of everyone was neat

Also it was pointed out to me by a former ILXor that Ed Norton was also pruned by the TVA

This is kind of making me pro-TVA

(xpost)

Yeah, I liked the idea, but thought the approach kinda deflated the tension. You just got to see [spoiler character] talk about why he's smart, and that he's been manipulating everyone all along - but he never really explains how he did it. So it's a bit "and then a rock fell down and killed everyone".

Although the show just gets away with it because there's still another set of episodes to come.

I assume that's because we're gonna see a variant of [spoiler character] actually doing what he does over the course of several upcoming films.

Obviously teed up for more in season 2, but disappointed in how the Renslayer B-plot just kinda disappeared in the episode.

I mean, no more than Chiwetel Ejiofor in Doctor Strange? She was never the main villain (but she filled in when they were short handed) but she'll be her own person when we see her next.

Nah, I mean more in terms of the flashback to before she was presumably kidnapped into serving the TVA and showing her disappearing through one of those portals and not showing up for the rest of the episode. Again, surely setting up S2, but it felt like a loose end.

wild to see the show’s commitment to “socially distanced Dr Who on digital sets” carry through to emulating the last Chibnall finale, in which the hero stands still in a room while the baddie delivers a forty-minute expository infodump about how a sinister force of mysterious time cops actually had a very slightly different backstory, but specifically not different enough that the twist recontextualises or challenges the protagonists’ last several millennia of actions in any way

Yeah. I think it’s unfair to compare this to Chibnall’s trainwreck (not least because most of Loki has been good, and all of Chibnall’s work has been bad) but it did come to mind. In the moment I thought more of that terrible exposition scene in the second matrix movie.

And also (apologies in advance) the 57th issue of Doom Patrol, another expositionary everything-you-know–is-wrong story, except in that case, the clues are laid in advance, and it all feels a lot more organic.

I really enjoyed the whole show, particularly the bits where they just wound up some actors and set them at each other. That said I don't think it would have been improved by another few weeks of "I trusted you!" / "And I'm asking you to trust me again" / "I swear Mobius, once last chance" - it did that well, but it got out when it should.

That said I can't really consider it in the same league as Wandavision?

I thought the contrast of putting someone who thinks he’s always five steps ahead of everyone up against someone who actually was ( million steps ahead of everyone was neat

Yeah, it varies by writer of course, but MCU Loki is far more "have a few good ideas and improvise" - and his greatest tragedy is the result of that going wrong.

re: Black Widow there were a lot more brooding silences in rural cottages than i expected

I liked the Loki finale. For one, I do actually like the reveal/tease of a Season 2, which was never promised and which neither of the other two shows promised, either. Second, I liked Majors a lot in this, since his variant is clearly more or less an insane Wizard of Oz, having juggled lots of information for eons, but they need to show him like this so that when he *does* return in more ruthless form the effect will be that much more dramatic. Third, I even like the cliffhanger, which I thought was less "no one knows who Loki is" and more a demonstration that the timeline has already been instantly, radically altered. And honestly, it doesn't even feel like a "wait til season 2" cliffhanger, because all this stuff is tied in the movies, which are imminent.

Speaking of which, I haven't had a chance to see Black Widow yet, but the bummer seems to be the need to get past that, Shang Chi and (possibly) the Eternals to get back to a big picture arc, though that (plus the pandemic) probably explains the need/desire to release 4 MCU features all in the span of just six months, with Spider-man 3 poised to be the/a big Christmas payoff. Dr. Strange and Thor 4 come out right on their heels, though, in equally quick succession. In fact, the MCU films will be shooting out at such a rapid pace I'm not even sure when or how the upcoming TV shows will fit in. They worked super well filling the void of the pandemic, but going forward I have no idea what they're up to. A major movie or TV show almost every month?

Disney+ needs a big Marvel or Star Wars show to premiere every month to retain subscribers, m/l i think

I was surprised there's no firm date on the next live action MCU show. The animated What If show comes soon but the animated streaming spinoffs don't get the same buzz.

I have a feeling that What If will be more canonical than one might expect, just as the animated Spider-man movie was the venue that introduced the multi-verse.

Have we talked about how much Black Widow apparently made through streaming? Something like $60 million, right? That's crazy. The TV shows are a real boon, too, since they can both fill in narrative gaps (thus requiring a subscription) but also work as stop gaps, too, between theatrical releases, also requiring a subscription for anyone needing a fix. TV is innately so much more accessible, too, in the literal sense. Even beyond, you know, a deadly pandemic, going to the movies is often a PIA, and I suspect with Disney+, Marvel is actually broadening its fanbase to include more casuals, folks perhaps curious when stuff like WandaVision or Loki get positive reviews and nominations broader than the usual genre cohort. Shows like those somehow, against all odds, can imo be starting points for folks who might then want to work their backwards through the rest of the catalog. They're weighted with mythology and references, but they feature strong casts/acting and production values that no doubt help carry those who don't know Kang the Conqueror from Carrot Top.

Seems like they've been waiting until the eleventh hour to drop a firm release date on the new series. I assume Hawkeye is still next up after What If?

I know it's a pipe dream but I wish they would've just insta-released Black Widow on blu-ray since I buy physical copies of all the MCUs anyway. I'm not champing at the bit to rush back into the theater just yet (but would've otherwise been there opening weekend), and $30 to stream a single movie on a service I already pay for just seems like a joke. So I guess I just sit here twiddling my thumbs until my gf finally succeeds in pressuring me into forking over my cash.