Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

They dismantled the outdoor part of the rally due to lack of interest.

Wasn't the Tulsa rally also the one where the K-Pop teens flooded them with requests for free tickets?

really about to clobber the next adult who says "we should wait and see on vaccinating children" when in Israel, children have a plurality of new infections, and the US and other countries are also starting to skew younger.

in addition to worries about *their* health, they can spread the fuckin thing ya know

also why won't the FDA give full authorization dammit.

also

1) Now that #Israel's Ministry of Health has released more info and data on the 64% estimate of #BionTech #Pfizer effectiveness against infection and symptomatic illness from #delta, my scepticism about this estimate remains fairly intact. Why? https://t.co/25IuHml3FF

— Andreas Backhaus (@AndreasShrugged) July 8, 2021

Yeah, I think who is testing and why and how often is not necessarily getting us the most accurate information.

why won't the FDA give full authorization dammit.

Honestly, what does it matter? The people who are declining the vaccine now aren't gonna change their tune because it's no longer an EUA. A state legislator who's refusing to allow a college to require students to get vaccinated, who is now saying "we can't mandate it because it's an EUA," is just going to make up a different reason once full approval comes.

Are there state legislators with the power to do that? Our public schools all require a host of vaccinations already, I don't see how anyone could stop them from adding another. I mean, it could happen, but I think all but the most ardent (literally) die-hard parents would rather have their kids back in school.

in surveys among the unvaccinated, there is a fairly sizable component of people responding that the need for more testing/FDA approval is the reason they won't get vaccinated. Who knows if that exact proportion of surveyed people would actually get vaccinated, but it wouldn't hurt and if it gets more people to get shots....and there are no prevailing reasons to doubt the safety and efficacy of these shots, it's irresponsible to delay it much longer.

There are a ton of public health experts asking for this right now, including Eric Topol.

https://i.ibb.co/2YWGd24/Screenshot-20210708-121014.jpg

so did wayne not want to do the vaxx ad or

he was a little too wobbly on the issue

claiming the assist for my stats on that one

just going to make up a different reason once full approval comes.

OK. So why not force them to think of a new, even weaker excuse they have top paste to their forehead for everyone to see?

this weeks we can barely get a million shots done in two days. but much like Memorial Day, I'm telling myself people don't make as many appointments around the holiday, or something.....there was also a day that no shots were reported too.

So weird, I got a letter from the IDPH today saying that it looks like I'm overdue for my second vaccine dose. Which, nope. Got it on the date scheduled just fine, thanks.

I'm guessing it means the pharmacy where I got the second dose just dropped the ball on reporting it, but it was weird to see. I wonder how many people might have experienced the same thing and if that impacts the stats at all.

hmm, yeah, that's weird.

meanwhile, more Eric Topol!

Israel, today with 527 cases (486 yesterday), 1 death, continues to have a reduced case rise compared with the UK, per capita@OurWorldInData https://t.co/IzdVO31MAh pic.twitter.com/kXQfXkGqU8

— Eric Topol (@EricTopol) July 8, 2021

hmm. they're starting from a lower base so that's exactly what you'd expect with equally fast exponential growth.

if you switch that chart to a log axis it's rising just as fast in israel as the UK in the last 2 weeks. so it's a "reduced case rise" in an absolute sense, but the rate of growth is consistent with israel being on a UK trajectory. (it may not be, just looking at raw numbers here, good reasons to think it's not.)

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?yScale=log&zoomToSelection=true&time=2021-05-02..latest&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=new_deaths_per_million&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=ISR~GBR

thx caek

also thoughts from a mathematician who is followed by just about every virologist/epidemiologist I follow (this one's a tweet thread)

If we look at the raw case data for the 20-24s (the group with the highest case rates, and in late May /early June the highest growth as well), there’s an intriguing sign that we may already be at the peak of cases (not just peak of growth). 🤞 pic.twitter.com/ladvtmCklL

— James Ward (@JamesWard73) July 8, 2021

yeah i think 🤞🏻 is the right emoji there. the data doesn't justify much more than that.

he does hedge pretty heavily in the thread

topol don’t let your smile go up in smoke

ja. and i see what he's talking about. he might be right. the uk growth rate does look like it's slowing down a little.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?yScale=log&zoomToSelection=true&time=2021-06-17..latest&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=new_deaths_per_million&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=ISR~GBR

i got two things from my phd in astronomy that i've carried with me since i left academia. 1) a good understanding of scale invariance, exponential growth and the important of logarithmic axes, that allows me to spot logical errors like topol's, and 2) debt.

sad lols @ #2 :(

I don't think Topol is as good at quick-take statistical analysis (someone else also called out the same thing you did in his thread), so I should probably seek someone else out for that. However what he IS really good at it is analyzing the pre-prints/studies that come out re: vaccine effectiveness.

yeah he's good!

I have no specific data or information to base this on, beyond my concerning eye watching rising case counts, but I'm starting to get the bad feeling that elementary kids are still going to be remote in a lot of areas this fall.

Based on the 7-day rolling average in Illinois, cases are up 39% and deaths are starting to rise again too (up 13%). The vast majority of the new cases are in the areas bordering Missouri (which appears to be a dumpster fire for the delta variant at this point) - Region 4 near St. Louis is a little over 6% positive rate, while Chicago region is right around 1%.

what's really not helping with this "third shot booster" debate are media's framing of this as a "what can it hurt?" type scenario, when billions globally haven't received a single shot.

yeah it might not HURT the people receiving the third shot, but it could impact supply that could have been supplied globally. I'm with the scientists on this one - we may find out it's necessary soon, but why rush it?

otm

Yeah there’s zero evidence right now that cases are rising in the US because people aren’t getting a third dose.

the 'rumor' that got traction on my local network is "Israel were the earliest to get most people vaccinated, so the reason for their lower efficacy recently is that their vaccines are wearing off", which.....isn't proven whatsoever, and not exactly something you want to be spreading.

I'm starting to get the bad feeling that elementary kids are still going to be remote in a lot of areas this fall.

I don't believe this, because I think the places where there will be big caseloads in September are the same places where large numbers of people are declining vaccination are the same places where schools were fully in-person when there were big caseloads last September.

As I understand it, all of our schools where we are will be fully open in the fall, with masks required (at least at the start). Along with the usual medical forms for high school there is the option to submit your vaccine card, should you want it on file. I guess in case you come down with something they can better rule out covid? My thought was they wanted it handy should they change tack again and require vaccinations.

not exactly something you want to be spreading

just another case where adding 2 + 2 = 22

the problem with pm going on TV on Monday and saying that pending a review on the 12th we'll reopen everything on the 19th is, based on today's trip to supermarket, that they only hear the "reopen everything" and not the dates or the caveats.

young bloke in there today who didn't see or just plain ignored the mask sign, the shop alone sign and all the arrows on the floors. and the queue for the tills.

r now 1.2 to 1.5 in the uk, cases doubling every two weeks. (fewer deaths per case thankfully, but not 0)

Orange County (not where I live, but I live right up against it) has restored its mask-wearing guidance. 406 new cases reported today.

ALL UNVACCINATED

this is FUCKING PREVENTABLE GODDAMMIT

i don't care about the mask wearing, but how stupid we are. this county has a 60% vax rate too.

what happened with the announcement today in the uk?

In today's announcement from the UK government:

The health secretary, Sajid Javid, had earlier told MPs: “This is not the end of the road. It’s the start of a new phase of continued caution, where we live with the virus and manage the risks.”...Government advisers expect about 1,000 to 2,000 daily hospital admissions over the summer as restrictions are lifted, and 100-200 deaths a day under what was described a “central scenario”. This would depend on how quickly the public’s behaviour returns to normal.

Abandoning everyone to it basically.

the thing is, it's not a mandate -- it's recommended, not require

Dr. Raul Pino from the Florida Department of Health in Orange County said the county is also seeing a rise in COVID-19 cases and predicts that trend will continue.

Yesterday 406 cases of new infections were reported to the Florida Department of Health and we have been above 400 (a day) since Thursday. Now the week before that we were at 200 a day. So, it has doubled and it will double next week if we do not do what we need to do,” Pino said.

The doctor said the vaccination is key to stemming this new tide of infections.

“100% of the cases reported yesterday were among unvaccinated individuals,” Pino said. “More so, 100% of the deaths that we are reporting to you today, were among unvaccinated individuals. So we can mask up, we can keep the distance, we can try not to talk about this but the reality is that this is an unvaccinated pandemic.”

continued caution...

i don't know if counties even CAN mandate masks anymore, after DeSantis basically unilaterally suspended restrictions (many months after he suspended local officials ability to fine violators)

The woman in the flat next door to mine in has just told me she's tested positive, so now I'm going to have to get tested tomorrow, and I'm supposed to be going up to Scotland at the weekend. Fuck my luck.

ah man, sorry to hear that Tom. fucking worst timing

I'm sure I'll be fine, I hardly see her let alone have close contact with her and I don't have any symptons. Mind you, with this Delta thing, who knows?

I won't be able to enjoy Freedom Day at this rate >:(

It's possible
To have >90% Delta and maintain solid containment pic.twitter.com/D8cnDIVXpq

— Eric Topol (@EricTopol) July 13, 2021

SF has now reached 75% of 12-and-up with a completed vaccine regimen (82% with one shot so that completed number should continue to increase), and that stands us in good stead. The CEO of the hospital where I work at made note of this just now in an email, which also detailed more about the cases we've had at the hospital. We were zeroed out there for a few days in mid-June but a few new cases have come in and we're at 9 total now. But -- utterly unsurprisingly -- all 9 patients were, apparently, unvaccinated. Given the steady if low-key pace of vaccinations, I do hope for even a slight increase just to fill in the corners -- and the city's outreach has become more and more focused over time anyway, rightly -- but I also wonder if we'll just see a situation where enough people will know enough people who did get it to maybe rethink just a bit. Related to all this, the main SF health officer has now specifically required vaccinations among hospital staff with only specific confirmed medical or religious exemptions in writing combined with regular testing and masking; was mildly surprised we weren't doing this already but remembered I was confusing this with the UCSF requirement already well in place. In any event, 9 cases is worse than no cases but almost a month out from the general removal or relaxation of all mandates in the state, that's a low number still and it's good to see.

I also wonder if we'll just see a situation where enough people will know enough people who did get it to maybe rethink just a bit

Should clarify -- who did get COVID.

I've been in Savannah for a few days, and while there are elements present - scattered masks (rarely required), hand sanitizer, a few restricted services - it's largely business as usual. At the same time, people all seem pretty reasonable when it comes to said restrictions and guidance.

vaccinations her day are sitting at around 530,000 a day in the US. be surprised if we're getting as many newbies and that these aren't mostly just people getting second shots at this point. meh.