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More of an Edward Lear/Lewis Carroll lyrical influence in 70s prog I'd say.

Donovan had his share of Tolkienism as well..

It sort of started with psych folkers like Donovan, Incredible String Band, Tyrannosaurus Rex.

The Edward Lear/Lewis Carroll stuff is more typical of the 60's psychedeluc "nursery rhymes"
The Tolkien stuff seems to have its roots in that scene, though - one of the main psych clubs was called Middle Earth!

Xp!

just occurred to me there's probably a gang of horrific Game of Thrones inspired music

Zappa claimed that his album Thing-Fish was influenced by Tolkien.

Grover the Hills and Far Away

― I can yeet a yeti (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, June 30, 2021 1:47 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Bert, I'm Gonna Leave You

Gang of Thrones

Will admit this thread has got me to recognize more Tolkien influence in these things than I was thinking. Still haven't made it through anything other than The Hobbit. I did watch one of the movies, which ruined some of those Zep songs a little for a while.

Heh, I like the ringwraiths line in "Battle of Evermore". But I'm also a huge Tolkien fan, so...

Like epic medieval fantasy narrative isn't what I get from e.g. Red or The Yes Album or Aqualung or Selling England by the Pound and there are a lot of other things going on textually that are more interesting imo.

― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r),

Well, the direct reference on Red is to Dylan Thomas, of course. It's pretty far removed from all that.

And I would say the same about "nursery rhyme shit" in the Beatles and Pink Floyd. Like for example 'the Scarecrow' is actually quite a dark song about Syd Barrett's catatonic episodes and deterioration.

But there's also the whole litany if songs about toyshops and lollipops by forgotten bands. That probably need to be evaluated on a case by case basis, but it was certainly "a thing". So brought up Tolkienesque fantasy as a direct comparison.

I'm thinking the Tolkien references in Zeppelin might be comparable to the Star Wars references in mid-late 90's bands, like for example Ash. There weren't very many of them, but it was a central part of their b(r)and identity.

I think the difference is, the references to Star Wars in various songs from that time strike me as deliberately goofy, whereas the epic fantasy stuff feels quite serious and heavy handed

Relevant to this discussion: http://www.marmalade-skies.co.uk/toytown1.htm

Yeah, exactly

Anyway. Geezer can totally pull off comparing his dealer to Gandalf afaic, he gets a pass.

Plant was a massive Incredible String Band fan, I sense a definite influence there.

"Since I've Been Loving You" is my personal fav but i'm sure I'm alone on that

― not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Wednesday, June 30, 2021 11:42 AM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

idk if this is a controversial opinion, but it's a correct one

TIL that despite lyrics to the contrary, Freddie Mercury was indeed a Star Wars fan

There's a lot of very moving, deeply personal stuff on Yes and Genesis albums, for sure. I haven't paid much attention to Jethro Tull's lyrics but I don't doubt it.

i thought that jon anderson's lyrics were mostly incoherent combinations of sounds that fit the melody and mood

TIL that despite lyrics to the contrary, Freddie Mercury was indeed a Star Wars fan

Who can forget:

A Jedi Knight at the Opera
Radio Jar-Jar
C3POhemian Rhapsody

...or indeed “Living On Han Solo”

The lord of the rings is better than star wars though, certainly?

OPO: Lord of the Rings Vs Star Wars (Episodes 4-6)

As someone said earlier, Bolan was a lot more Tolkienesque than LZ or any prog band, but in a charming wtf-is-he-on-about kinda way.

― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Wednesday, June 30, 2021 1:44 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

It could be that a person likes Bolan and so finds his Tolkienisms "charming" and another person does not like Led Zeppelin and so finds their Tolkienisms offputting.

And even stranger, those might be the same people.

Bolan was a little Hobbit himself, elfin and barefoot.

But "Gollum, the evil one" in Ramble On is one of the biggest buzzkills in music for me. Might as well have been "Oscar, the grouchy one".

Sorry if being pedantic, but isn't it "Gollum and the Evil One..."? I was definitely a LotR and Zeppelin dork as a kid and remember being disappointed that the song was only using LotR references that didn't make much sense as metaphors for what seemed like dumb love lyrics.

Plant = Legolas
Bonham = Gimli
Page = The Necromancer
Jones = I dunno, Christopher Tolkien or someone

xxp Sorry, I'm just loling that somehow LZ's three slight Tolkien references are somehow heavy-handed but Bolan splashing Tolkien-juice on every square inch of his catalog is some charming elfin sage.

Bolan is more likable

xps You're right, but I hadn't heard it that way until now.

I didn't say it was charming. xxp

He is more likeable, though. Not that it's really saying much.

Led Zeppelin is ruined for me because they were always surrounded by “urban legends” like the shark story, which was told to me in middle school by someone who was like impressed by it. Many artists mistreated young women, but it was part of the brand with them, the aura, and it turns my stomach.

However, I am not perfect on this. When when the levee breaks comes on the radio i pump it up. But there is an urge, i feel, to resist led zeppelin

Hobbits arent elflike ffs

Bolan is more likable

Bolan was basically a Muppet; T.Rex always sounded to me like a version of "rock music" aimed at small children. All the tropes, blown up to cartoon size, and all the sharp edges rubbed off.

Unfortunately you’re wrong. The songs are simple but infectious.

Are there Tolkien references on The Slider? I never noticed.

Bang a Gong (Pipeweed Bong)

I assume that there's something Tolkien-related going on with My People Were Fair and Had Sky in Their Hair but Now They're Content to Wear Stars in Their Brow?

Hobbits arent elflike ffs

All the same to me, I'm afraid.

^gets it

Bolan is more likableI like Bolan more.

― treeship., Wednesday, June 30, 2021 3:06 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Fixed it for you.

Sorry, I'm just loling that somehow LZ's three slight Tolkien references are somehow heavy-handed but Bolan splashing Tolkien-juice on every square inch of his catalog is some charming elfin sage.

The person who said LZ were heavy-handed was not the same person who said Bolan was charming... so that doesn't work? Personally, I like LZ well enough but have never taken any notice of their lyrics - Gollum and all - whereas many's the time I've chuckled along to Bolan's folderol nonsense.

Are there Tolkien references on The Slider? I never noticed.

It's mostly pre-fame Bolan.

Well, the point of comparing it to Star Wars references was to say, I don't know how the Tolkien stuff would have hit a 1970's person, because I wasn't there. Maybe it wasn't much different to hearing some pop-punk band sing "use the force" in 1996. Probably not, but i can't know that.

anyone arguing that the beatles aren't shit at this point are melts. I've done extensive research on this subject and am completely correct. comments are closed.

I have a lot more context at my disposal for the Star Wars stuff. Whereas if referencing LOTR was Robert Plant's way of injecting levity into LZ songs, I wouldn't know.

The context I do have suggests that it wasn't.