The UK a fading empire? What year is this, 1956?
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 07:01 (three years ago) link
Guns and health make this america and its no contest at all tbh
― Eschew things thirty two times before swallowing them (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 07:16 (three years ago) link
I think the UK is still a marginally better place to live because of the NHS and the relatively tiny amount of gun crime. But I'd argue it's last moments as a fading empire had gone by the 70's. Post Suez they have been a self-governing dominion of the US empire, albeit one with shitloads of overseas military bases and some of the phantom limb delusions of a former empire. Obv not mentioning NI would be wrong but I don't do longposts very well!
― calzino, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 08:01 (three years ago) link
Yes, the whole guns thing is the clincher, that's just insane. There's a lot of delusional guff talked about the NHS in the UK though.
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 08:07 (three years ago) link
oh the NHS is on borrowed time, but what is left of it is still better than having to pay a grand if you call an ambulance or women getting billed for hugging their newborn.
― calzino, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 08:09 (three years ago) link
We're kind of conditioned in the UK, to patiently wait in line (for months, years even) for the NHS (i.e. the state) to ladle out little carefully costed packets of healthcare, I'm not sure Americans are quite ready for that.
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 08:18 (three years ago) link
https://i1.wp.com/bespokeunit.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Bespoke-Unit-Guide-to-Fade-Levels.jpg
― ten man poland chasing this means hamsik feasts (breastcrawl), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 08:38 (three years ago) link
the stuff going on with voting rights in the US makes the US worse, imo
― J Edgar Noothgrush
UK voting rights not looking too sacrosanct right now either.
― chap, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 08:48 (three years ago) link
I'm simply laughing. This is funny to me.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 08:58 (three years ago) link
chap at 4:48 22 Jun 21the stuff going on with voting rights in the US makes the US worse, imo― J Edgar NoothgrushUK voting rights not looking too sacrosanct right now either.yeah this is basically why I started the poll, the whole end of democracy thing makes the US look more fucked to me and I wanted to know if Britishers agreed. or if, in their nigh-Olympian trans-Atlantic perspective, they'd see a steadier foundation 'neath Columbia's feet than she herself can encompass.
― lukas, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 14:22 (three years ago) link
the mass shootings thing is a good point too, though.
― lukas, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 14:24 (three years ago) link
People here mostly think they’re fine afaict, cost of doing business
― Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 15:20 (three years ago) link
voted America, we will be The United States of MyPillow by 2041
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 15:35 (three years ago) link
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Tuesday, June 22, 2021 2:01 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
i must concur
― goole, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 15:40 (three years ago) link
yeah this is basically why I started the poll, the whole end of democracy thing makes the US look more fucked to me and I wanted to know if Britishers agreed. or if, in their nigh-Olympian trans-Atlantic perspective, they'd see a steadier foundation 'neath Columbia's feet than she herself can encompass.
I'm sure you won't be too surprised to find Britishers spend roughly 0.000000000001% of their time thinking about US democracy.
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 15:49 (three years ago) link
Admittedly that's 0.000000000001% more than most non-Americans.
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 15:50 (three years ago) link
NHS is so-so by European standards but obv better than what the US has.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 15:58 (three years ago) link
I simply wouldnt ask any britishers tbh
― Eschew things thirty two times before swallowing them (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 15:59 (three years ago) link
In the UK we have the tag-team attack on democracy by both a Starmer Labour opposition that is so diabolically tory that it encourages people to give up on parliamentary democracy. And then the actual real tories looking to sneak in voter ID and electoral boundary reforms designed to keep them in power forever, while millions of voters already dgaf about democracy as a serious means for harm reduction or meaningful change anymore.
― calzino, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 16:01 (three years ago) link
Terf Island seems pretty extra specially horrible from the outside I think
It's my experience that much of the media class throughout Europe is as bad or worse than the UK on this particular issue, it's just magnified for the UK because it's the only country the US pays marginal attention to.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 16:01 (three years ago) link
Also more than yer average GOP voter in America too.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 16:03 (three years ago) link
between them I've only been to the US, but I think living with the UK press/media would drive me (more) insane so they get my vote
― intern at pelican brief consulting (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 16:04 (three years ago) link
if someone could use the spotify api to find out which country has more playlists titled 'fucking faded'
― butyrate humbucker bobbins (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 16:27 (three years ago) link
uk is no longer a fading empire, the empire is finished and the uk is really not particularly important in a geo-political sense anymore. america is the world hegemon rn, although china is of course catching up and may overtake soon.
america probably a more fucked place to live in if you are poor. the numbers of homeless are staggering in the big cities ive been to and some of the more depressed areas ive seen make middlesborough look nice
conservatives are going to be in power for like the next 20 years in the uk without cheating, otoh trump might be president again in a few years, and the electoral system is a joke in the US
― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 16:51 (three years ago) link
The electoral system is very much a joke in the UK too.
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 16:59 (three years ago) link
most global democracy hinges on the idea that everybody is good people and will respect norms and that is why it fails
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:01 (three years ago) link
not in comparison to the US though. electoral college and the whole "try and stop black people voting whenever possible" aspect is just unbelievable
― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:02 (three years ago) link
we also just had a sitting President attempt a self-coup
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:03 (three years ago) link
the empire is not finished, it's a collaborative project
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Justice_(Diego_Garcia)
― Left, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:06 (three years ago) link
yes, one sign of the fuckedness of the UK is that calling it "an empire" is largely perceived as a pity-compliment for a once-proud nation fallen on hard times. Not sure that's worse than the US's steadfast commitment to denying the blatantly obvious, mind
― trap door to hell opens underneath (rob), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:19 (three years ago) link
on that note, while the US might be fading on multiple fronts, I don't think its imperialism is one of them
― trap door to hell opens underneath (rob), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:20 (three years ago) link
Wait, isn't the US part of the UK's faded empire?
― Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:25 (three years ago) link
Wooooooaaahh
― Eschew things thirty two times before swallowing them (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:26 (three years ago) link
I seem to remember....a before times. We weren't America. we were...something....smaller, I think? clothes were different, colors were different. different people to give us instructions. an angry mob throwing product off of a boat.
guns and stabwounds and blood. and it goes black and then it was like different people.
but it's faint and i don't recall anybody know what that's about
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:28 (three years ago) link
believe you are recalling the KISS Cruise (AKA the KISS Kruise)
― butyrate humbucker bobbins (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:30 (three years ago) link
'Has it worse' as an empire or as a country to live in? As countries to live in, these two remain some of the best countries in the world to live in, by quite some distance.
UK still has plenty of empire-like elements and influence, if only through its multiples international corporations like BP, Rio Tinto and finance giants.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:32 (three years ago) link
Yes, we need to remind ourselves that literally hundreds of thousands of people are trying to relocate to these miserable faded empires.
― Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:36 (three years ago) link
― Andy the Grasshopper,
no, in the US there was a patriotic revolt in the late 1700s that was all about Taxed Enough Already and partying. and by 1833, when slavery was banned in most of the british empire, that was the final straw for the United States. like, no way would the US re-join the british empire after that
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:36 (three years ago) link
i mean yes, but as far as rich first-world countires go these are not among the most desirable to live in imo
― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:36 (three years ago) link
best way to reunite UK and US would be to have a big meetup at a gas station. then everyone who is a true United Empire citizen just stands there talking and breathing in fumes, talking about gas vs petrol and that kind of stuff, lifts, elevators, and gettin reel dum dum together again
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:38 (three years ago) link
the phasing out of lead in gasoline, as well, led to further distance between the empires. we need to put more lead back in our blood so we can connect with the earth and our fellow man
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:39 (three years ago) link
eating dirt, as well. whatever happened to that? this empire of dirt? what dirt?
Nardwuar has a song about our 'Revolutionary War' was really more of a civil war between loyalists and those who wanted unilateral independence
― Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:42 (three years ago) link
we're all wearing the crown of shit
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:42 (three years ago) link
"...best way to reunite UK and US..."
We can't even reunify the Dakotas
― Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:47 (three years ago) link
feels like a Star Wars movie could be our only hope
― butyrate humbucker bobbins (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 22 June 2021 17:50 (three years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Sunday, 27 June 2021 00:01 (three years ago) link
As countries to live in, these two remain some of the best countries in the world to live in, by quite some distance.
Ive no idea what this is saying tbh
― Eschew things thirty two times before swallowing them (darraghmac), Sunday, 27 June 2021 00:44 (three years ago) link
neither does he tbf
― Linda and Jodie Rocco (map), Sunday, 27 June 2021 00:49 (three years ago) link
Maybe he noticed there's not so many death squads here in the USA now that the KKK has eased off on that strategy. That seems to be a highly attractive feature to many Central Americans right now.
― What's It All About, Althea? (Aimless), Sunday, 27 June 2021 00:57 (three years ago) link
thank you, flopson. wikipedia has something called "Gini after taxes". Is that a worse metric? It seems like a good idea, but I'm not sure.― butyrate humbucker bobbins (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, June 27, 2021 4:36 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― butyrate humbucker bobbins (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, June 27, 2021 4:36 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
i'm not a huge fan of gini index (one issue is it's not very good at capturing the tails of inequality--the extremely rich or extreme poor--since it puts the most weight on the middle of the income distribution) but if you're going to use it it makes sense to use post-taxes data. gini is convenient because people have calculated it for lots of countries in the world. most new inequality research is focused on things like 90-10 percentile ratio, top 1% share, top 0.1% share. but it's still a work in progress to get those for many countries
― flopson, Sunday, 27 June 2021 20:46 (three years ago) link
Lived in both. It’s the US and it’s not even close.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 27 June 2021 21:04 (three years ago) link
Why’d you have kids here then
― Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), Sunday, 27 June 2021 21:05 (three years ago) link
a little difficult to have kids that live in a different country than u
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Sunday, 27 June 2021 21:11 (three years ago) link
nah I'd say growing a weebo takes less time and effort
― butyrate humbucker bobbins (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, 27 June 2021 21:45 (three years ago) link
No pull-out-game shaming.
― Joe Bombin (milo z), Sunday, 27 June 2021 21:53 (three years ago) link
well this is charming
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 27 June 2021 21:54 (three years ago) link
Will anyone admit they believe their kids will have nice lives
― Eschew things thirty two times before swallowing them (darraghmac), Sunday, 27 June 2021 21:58 (three years ago) link
they will be fine. Just like that thread.
― butyrate humbucker bobbins (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, 27 June 2021 22:08 (three years ago) link
Sometimes a nation can be truly fucked up and yet contain many happy people who have not yet realized how bad their lives are.
― What's It All About, Althea? (Aimless), Sunday, June 27, 2021 4:37 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
The opposite is more common, in my experience.
― Van Horn Street, Sunday, 27 June 2021 22:51 (three years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Monday, 28 June 2021 00:01 (three years ago) link
35 otm
― Eschew things thirty two times before swallowing them (darraghmac), Monday, 28 June 2021 00:09 (three years ago) link
― Van Horn Street, Sunday, June 27, 2021 11:51 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
smarminess though can be found just about anywhere
― Linda and Jodie Rocco (map), Monday, 28 June 2021 00:19 (three years ago) link
same goes for pettiness
― What's It All About, Althea? (Aimless), Monday, 28 June 2021 01:28 (three years ago) link
Tom Pettiness
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Monday, 28 June 2021 01:36 (three years ago) link
― Linda and Jodie Rocco (map), Sunday, June 27, 2021 8:19 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Oh the absolute misery of living in the United States of all possible places and dealing with smarmy people. Someone send help.
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 28 June 2021 02:55 (three years ago) link
The UK's universal healthcare may be rickety, but it's still there. I'm always amazed at the amount people have to pay for health insurance in the US, and the fact that two thirds of bankruptcies there involve health issues. Throw in guns, and that's enough for me not to want to live in the US
― Zelda Zonk, Monday, 28 June 2021 03:12 (three years ago) link
manthey are probably both fucked in their own wayI don't know
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 28 June 2021 04:22 (three years ago) link
I'm from the USA and the UK has it worse
lol tell me more
― nashwan, Monday, 28 June 2021 11:30 (three years ago) link
Shoodawopbop
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Monday, 28 June 2021 11:31 (three years ago) link
With the analyses above can we do a quick check on which of the countries involved are fading anglo empires
― Eschew things thirty two times before swallowing them (darraghmac), Monday, 28 June 2021 11:41 (three years ago) link
It's entirely possible the UK might not exist in 10 years, which I don't believe is true of the USA, fwiw.
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Monday, 28 June 2021 11:48 (three years ago) link
that’s a good point
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 28 June 2021 17:02 (three years ago) link
The US will be 20 nation states
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Monday, 28 June 2021 17:04 (three years ago) link
Neandz - that wasn’t a joke from Tom D!
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 28 June 2021 17:06 (three years ago) link
Oh I know. My absurdist quip was meant to suggest that democracy is in peril in the US and although it's unlikely for us to outright stop existing, who knows what we'll look like in ten years.
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Monday, 28 June 2021 17:10 (three years ago) link
I'm already terrified of 2022 and 2024 election results being upended
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Monday, 28 June 2021 17:11 (three years ago) link
Two of the four countries of the UK already have goverments that are entirely or partly led by political parties whose goal is the dismantling of the UK, we just need Plaid Cymru to get their fingers out and complete the set.
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Monday, 28 June 2021 17:14 (three years ago) link
I could see various autonomous regions springing up. NY/NJ/CT could easily secede, though PA would probably want in and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Let the Confederacy realign, as long as they sign non-aggression pacts with everybody else. All the Western states destined to eventually burn/drought themselves to death could become one big desert empire, except California which I'm sure wants no part of that bullshit. The biggest conflicts would likely come between, like, Vermont and New Hampshire or Minnesota and Wisconsin.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 28 June 2021 17:15 (three years ago) link
That's all fantasy though, I'm talking reality here.
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Monday, 28 June 2021 17:16 (three years ago) link
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Monday, 28 June 2021 17:14 (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Three
― Eschew things thirty two times before swallowing them (darraghmac), Monday, 28 June 2021 17:17 (three years ago) link
A de jure breakup of the USA is much less plausible to me than a de facto diminution of federal power as passing legislation becomes impossible and governing by executive order and continuing resolution ossifies into the only means of doing business. Some Supreme Court ruling or other will lead to a nullification crisis of some kind, west coast and Acela corridor states will enter into miscellaneous intergovernmental agreements, federal tax revenues will decline precipitously, that sort of thing
― Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), Monday, 28 June 2021 17:21 (three years ago) link
The military (and nuclear arsenal) make an actual dissolution of the US almost unthinkable barring nigh end of the world global catastrophe. Fort Hood has 50k troops, only a sliver of which at any given time are from Texas.
A federalism where the only real federal superstructure is the military and intelligence community... now that's possible.
― Joe Bombin (milo z), Monday, 28 June 2021 17:35 (three years ago) link
https://www.axios.com/gop-megadonor-south-dakota-troops-border-21881b13-f0d8-461f-a7af-fe6288b5bcbd.html
A Tennessee billionaire and high-dollar Republican donor is funding the deployment of South Dakota National Guard troops to the U.S. Mexico border.
― rob, Wednesday, 30 June 2021 14:01 (three years ago) link
this was stupid, yes.
― lukas, Wednesday, 30 June 2021 14:23 (three years ago) link
eh fading can take a long time. When I become a Canadian citizen, I have to swear loyalty to the queen. Plus there's this whole thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories#Current_overseas_territories
― rob, Wednesday, 30 June 2021 14:31 (three years ago) link
xpost The deployment of the National Guard from SD is insane, it sets a worrying precedent. I can imagine all kinds of scenarios where Republican-led states use National Guard to amplify conflict, and it could draw in elements of the militia movement etc. My issue with most analysis setting out scenarios of US breakup is that they treat the South as one distinct political unit but that’s simply not the case now. The political divisions in the country now are much more along urban-rural lines than along the big geographical divides of the 19th century. Alabama now has more in common with South Dakota than with Virginia, politically speaking. I’m not sure how whether this really makes breakup of the US less likely, but it does seem plausible that nominally Red states like Georgia will have to focus on repressing internal dissent.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 1 July 2021 03:12 (three years ago) link
Sort of the Grover Norquist ideal, right? To the extent there is a coherent Republican strategy right now (and I'm not saying it's very coherent), I think that's it. Seize more-or-less unshakable control of the federal govt, and then strip it down, dismantle the regulatory state, theoretically leave things like environmental regulation up to the states, but then of course use federal leverage to penalize California/NY/anyone who steps out of line.
It is definitely among the possible scenarios.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 1 July 2021 03:19 (three years ago) link
That’s not unlikely, but basically lose-lose for California in particular considering climate change is one of the main points of contention, CA is getting some of the worst effects of it, CA also pays more than its share of taxes, and the US military has been (and maybe still is) the single organization with the largest carbon footprint.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 1 July 2021 03:33 (three years ago) link
o rly
https://i.imgur.com/93Ltr2V.jpg
― bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Thursday, 1 July 2021 03:53 (three years ago) link