Post a controversial opinion

The violin bit in "Raspberry Beret" is all-time. ALL-TIME.

And I like fgti's characterization of the lyricism of Blue as "tumbling." It's like choogling. Hard to define but you know it when you hear it.

"A more elegant Dylan" is quite right. The "met a redneck on a Grecian isle" verse is easily as good as anything in "You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go." And significantly better than any part of Subterranean Homesick whatever

I didn't know I liked Prince until my friend gave me the tape of "around the world in a day," and I immediately played it a million times and know all the lyrics to all of its songs. None of Prince's 80's singles are bad.

significantly better than any part of Subterranean Homesick whatever

― portmanteaujam (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, June 4, 2021 2:11 PM (twenty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

damn early onset memory loss strikes 2/3rds of the way through the title

Hey fgti, sorry to ask a question and then stop following the thread. But wow, I love your answer and description. Joni is a master (the master?) of that tumbling quality - in fact I'd say, in agreement with you, looks like, that it's a defining feature of most of the classic albums that follow Blue. It's like the lyrics and the way that she sings them are so compelling that the song structure follows them, rather than vice versa. I feel it most explicitly on her piano songs, but I like that you highlighted some of the guitar/dulcimer ones; it's nice to listen to them through that lens as well.

It's funny that you say the only previous example is Woodstock. Because I knew the CSNY version for many years before I heard Joni's, the more conventional and tighter aspects of the song were so much more of a prominent part of its DNA to me that when I first heard Joni's, they were already overlaid on top of her performance and arrangement. I wonder how I would have heard it differently if I'd heard it first.

In any case, it's the other quality you highlighted, that intimacy, that separates Blue from For the Roses (though obviously there are some great personal songs on there as well). As you said, it's the combination of the tumbling and the intimacy that make Blue stand out. It's a great formula. The albums you cite as comparisons are some of my favorites, too, so I am clearly a sucker for that self-contained confessional artistic statement. I also include Astral Weeks in that internal mental category, though the collaboration of the band plays a much bigger role sonically.

Should probably just post this in a Joni Mitchell thread at this point, but in writing this post I went to her website to check some lyrics, and holy shit that is great website. Directories of cover versions for each songs, scans of original lyric sheets and other primary sources, little essays and comments on many songs. Highly recommend.

joni's website is very good. feels like an artifact of an older better internet (that may not have ever existed)

joni's website also has a pretty awesome archive of guitar and piano transcriptions, for those who are into that kind of thing

My controversial Prince opinion I guess is that "7" in my top 10 Prince tracks, idk why I love that song so much

― what's fgti up to these days? nothing. she's fake (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, June 4, 2021 12:25 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

me too fgti, me too

some of the songs even have dulcimer tabs!

xp to me

For a second I thought... dulcimer tabs for Prince? That would slap.

BRB, I will be spending my summer creating dulcimer tabs for the entire Prince catalog.

"lady cab driver" would sound sick on a dulcimer

Before you ask, I would start with mountain dulcimer and then work my way up to hammer dulcimer

It's peculiar that disliking Joni Mitchell's music would not be controversial, whereas liking some songs or records more than others is seen that way.

self-contained confessional artistic statement.

Thanks for your response, Lavator. Reading this sentence got me thinking about "...Richard", and I only just now realized that Joni had clarified that the song was not about her ex-husband Chuck Mitchell but was more a fantasy inspired by a comment from Patrick Sky? https://jonimitchell.com/music/song.cfm?id=48 I love this song even more, now

It is truly stunning, maybe the best on the album. Blue is one of those albums where I can tell how special it is to me because every or almost every song is my favorite at some point or another. Hard to beat "Last Time I Saw Richard"

Also to keep the parallel conversations going, I too love "7" :-)

"7" is wonderful. I was around when it, inexplicably and awesomely, became a top ten.

I always feel like that song is the blueprint for a concept SF rock musical Prince never made, his "Mr. Roboto" if you will

that song taught me "savoir faire" as a kid

A controversial opinion I invented just now is that “Welcome to the Black Parade” is better than any Beatles song except “Eleanor Rigby”

tbh the crazy part of that to me is "Eleanor Rigby" being anyone's favorite Beatles song

look at all the ornery people

I can’t really explain it, I like that one, songs were Ringo sings, and the Abbey Road medley/Her Majesty. xp

*where

I have a controversial opinion on the worst beatles song (guessing most people do)

it's "Do You Want To Know A Secret"

I find the beatles nearly unlistenable. I don’t know exactly why.

who can explain it
who can tell you why?

i can. it is because the beatles is crap. crap, i say!

Hi cat

I've kept the Beatles at arm's length most of my life, and am pleasantly surprised when I hear an unfamiliar tune that they've recorded.

Years ago I was in band's van and asked the driver whether we were listening to Guided By Voices (it was loud in the van, lots of chatting).

"Are you kidding? It's the White Album," he replied, shaking his head in disgust.

hi treeship!

I work with someone whose beatles challop is that they are underrated which is a bit of a doozy

I think the aura that surrounds them is just off-putting for me. This is especially true for songs like Blackbird and Here Comes the Sun, the ones everyone loves.

I respect A Day in the Life. I will say that.

The thing I never got with them is why they recorded so many nursery rhyme type songs that are actively annoying, especially ob la di, ob la da and yellow submarine. They’re just strange songs to me, and their contemporaries didn’t seem to follow them in this path of making kids songs for adults.

Paul McCartney was in them, that's why.

Actually, yeah—for all the talk of their influence, they are actually really singular in many ways, and not really ways I like.

Beatles are tbh underrated, because (see above) lots of ppl rate music on nonsense criteria

nb i think ppl should be allowed to do this, its fine, but theyre obv wrong

Also there was a lot of that kind of thing going on in the UK music scene at the time.

Now that said ive been rattled by somehow getting into pink floyd this last week, anything can happen

xpost Yeah, that's been a put-off for me... a good percentage of their studio catalog is basically children's music: octopuses, raccoons, piggies, etc.

But I've found some older live footage on youtube where they do some pretty rippin' rock'n'roll

Early pink floyd was like that, and some early bowie, but by the late-60s wasn’t that nursery rhyme stuff fading out? And what was it about, just stray bits of musical memory that came to the surface while taking acid?

Xp tom

There was a lot more of that stuff around than early Pink Floyd and Bowie. It's like a whole subgenre of UK psychedelia! I agree that it was odd that they were still doing it in 1969 though.

the only good beatles song is my sweet lord and that's because it's not a beatles song, george harrison just ripped off the chiffons

I'm sure Lennon and Harrison were delighted to find themselves recording "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" in 1969. If they're actually on the track.

the only good beatles song is the end tbh

is it kids songs or remnants of the dreaded british music hall tradition

A muddled distinction in my mind.

Yes, bit of crossover going on.

"Yellow Submarine" isn't music hall... though I could imagine George Formby singing it I suppose.