Post a controversial opinion

I'm gonna just go ahead and say that both "Starman" AND "Life on Mars" are boring and flabby. DB went to this well a few times too often. It remains a mystery to me that the same dude could bring forth those duds, as well as all the lean and clean material from this period.

Blue is unimpeachable, I will not budge on that

disagree with a), though I can't think of an answer that wouldn't be controversial (maybe "Ziggy Stardust" or "Suffragette City" or maybe "Jean Genie"? I like all of these less than starman)

The fuzzy area in this controp/challop batch is the definition of "big single."

For your consideration as long as we're challopsing:

1. Prince was a singles artist who made albums.

2. Bowie was an albums artist who made singles.

I can't think of an answer that wouldn't be controversial

do u know what thread u r in

are you really willing to defend fucking "America" (which I didn't even realise was a single - baffling choice even by that album's standards) as a better song than RB?

there’s an ilm thread for this /threadcop

Ye Mad Puffin, could you give an example of a good Bowie song drawn from the same "well" as the two songs you mention?

hookless ("My Old Man", "Last Time I Saw Richard") songs

wow gotta reverse time so i can unread this

I'd say of her first four albums, the best was her debut. Then there were some growing pains before she started the next phase with For the Roses. I prefer the distanced, observational perspective to the heart-on-sleeve stuff.

Though I love "All I Want".

I can't think of an answer that wouldn't be controversial

do u know what thread u r in

I guess my point is if every possible answer to a question ("what is David Bowie's worst big single of the 70s?") is controversial, then maybe also no answer is controversial

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson) at 5:03 4 Jun 21
hookless ("My Old Man", "Last Time I Saw Richard") songs
wow gotta reverse time so i can unread this

other people are capable of appreciating music in a way so alien to me that they may as well be from Neptune

I feel this way every single day on ILM.

(xxp) I don't really think saying a live version "Knock On Wood" is Bowie's worst big single of the 70s is very controversial tbf. "Starman" is great. As is "Sorrow".

yeah knock on wood no contest

I feel this way every single day on ILM.

― but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, June 4, 2021 9:35 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

if you feel this way every single day... you may be the one from neptune

Halfway there: I'd say "Space Oddity" works fine. It's got the dreamy ballad feel plus the weird, but it doesn't feel as sludgy to me as "Starman." "Life on Mars" is aiming for a cabaret vibe? Maybe? But still feels approximately two minutes too long to my ear.

"Ziggy" works fine for me also, but as an uptempo rocker it might not be considered from the same well.

unpersons are from mars, ilxors are from venus

Is there life on neptune?

if you feel this way every single day... you may be the one from neptune

Then unperson and I are neighbours.

you really are very well-travelled

Then there were some growing pains before she started the next phase with For the Roses. I prefer the distanced, observational perspective to the heart-on-sleeve stuff.

No such thing as the latter. That line is bulllshit sold by 1970s-era critics who thought artists didn't this sort of thing.

*did

I can understand seeing the progression "Space Oddity" to "Life On Mars" to "Starman" as Bowie gradually stirring more sugar into the mix until it becomes inedible (sentimental chord changes, strings, backing vox). That's why it's so nice that Aladdin Sane cuts back on the slickness.

But yeah I prefer her after 1973.

Alfred, you don't see a change in perspective from Blue to For the Roses?

Anyway let this be said: I think any artist would be pleased and proud to have something as fine as "Raspberry Beret" in their discography.

If it is his worst big single (from a decade of continuously stellar chart performance), that's still pretty good.

I can understand seeing the progression "Space Oddity" to "Life On Mars" to "Starman" as Bowie gradually stirring more sugar into the mix until it becomes inedible (sentimental chord changes, strings, backing vox). That's why it's so nice that Aladdin Sane cuts back on the slickness.

full agreement

Halfway, I do, but I don't see it as a shift from autobiographical narratives, no matter what she says. I don't think art works in those binaries.

controp: Toad the Wet Sprocket's "All I Want" is better than any song by Bob Dylan

"Fall Down" is.

I don't get the "Raspberry Beret is his worst big single of the 80s" bit. the instrumentation on that song is iconic, instantly recognizable, it's a Prince tune that just about anybody can hum/sing, the bridge is delightfully bonkers.

it's fuckin' better than Batdance, which I like, but is really just a pastiche of nonsense. or "Pop Life", whichc is good but is no RB. or "Alphabet Street" (good, not great). or "Delirious", which is fun synthabilly (it got to #8? damn!)

I guess I would still see Blue as personal if I never read a word of her biography or interviews.

Brimstead otm

hejira is observational but i wouldn't call it distant and it's obviously personal, it just has the scaling ability of a camera attached to a helicopter xp

But while we're here, the screech in raspberry beret alone knocks alphabet street out of any park u choose

yea
yea
yeaaaaaaaa

hejira is observational but i wouldn't call it distant and it's obviously personal, it just has the scaling ability of a camera attached to a helicopter xp

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, June 4, 2021 10:08 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i would incidentally also say this is true about "the last time i saw richard," so yeah, it's not a binary, nor a linear shift from one thing to the other

I much prefer the Tin Pan Alley "well" that Bowie was drawing from on "Changes", "Life On Mars", "Starman" and "Drive-In Saturday" to the not-great covers ("Sorrow", "Let's Spend The Night Together", "Knock On Wood").

Of Bowie's 70s hit singles I'm much more inclined to dismiss the repetitious Stones aping ("The Jean Genie", "Rebel Rebel") and anything else off Diamond Dogs.

My favourite 70s single of his though is prob a tie between "Golden Years" and "Drive-In Saturday" so ymmv

"The Last Time I Saw Richard" is Joni's greatest song and there's no contest, hooks or no

Generally I can't rank "Blue" next to any of Joni's other albums just because it's such an outlier. It's like trying to rank "Nebraska", you kinda can't do it. I definitely have listened to "Blue" the most of all her albums though (same with "Nebraska")

I can't really argue with "Raspberry Beret" being Prince's "worst big 80s single"? Even if I feel differently? I care less for "Take Me With U" or "Alphabet St.", but wouldn't start using words like "hate" or "worst" until "Gett Off" and "Cream"

My controversial Prince opinion I guess is that "7" in my top 10 Prince tracks, idk why I love that song so much

i keep forgetting this is the ile controversial opinion thread, deems must be furious

Is the "Controversy" single considered big, in artistic terms if not commercial? That might be my other favourite.

blue is awesome but I didn’t get into it until this year. used to be strictly jazzy joni

I don’t like the first track on ziggy that much but the rest of the album fucking owns

the Travis cover of “River” is beautiful, cmon somebody has to have my back on this one

I like all of Hunky, all of Ziggy, all of Aladdin except for their respective cover songs

Actually, this is true of Station To Station, too, never cared for his version of "Wild Is The Wind"

best part of starman is the riff after the chorus, just pure glam perfection, it evokes images of glammy ppl in big boots and big hair and fur kicking out lightning