Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

I would pay everyone who works a customer facing service job to quit but I can only afford that a few times personally

The CDC might be right about the science but they’ve now made life more dangerous for a few people I know and more anxious for many of the rest, it seems crazy to tell people they can totally chill now when cases are still higher than they were last summer, which was considered at the time to be “bad”

Not to mention all the kidding on the square conspiratorial thinking about Biden needing to distract from Israel or get the economy moving again or whatever

at least he's still actively importing new cases and variants

If you keep the mask requirement then you are going to have to argue with lots more people now.

This is why I brought up Walmart, who afaict started out with a strict mask mandate but then soon determined they didn't have the power to enforce it in the (literal) face of their aggressive customers. Trader Joe's and Costco, though, they were almost religious about it, and in fact a lot of those viral (hah) videos of anti-maskers came from them specifically. Clearly, if they did indeed officially announce a change of policy, someone like Trader Joe's didn't really *need* to, since they'd been pretty successful self-policing. But I had just heard last week or so that they were transitioning out the elderly/vulnerable shopping hours, anyway, so I guess even before this announcement they were ready to move on. I do wonder (as a regular TJs and Costco shopper) if the mask rule hurt them at all. I would guess ... not. Which maybe is why I'm so surprised they're so fast out of the gate to revert, but just as I still see plenty of solo people outside wearing masks, I'm sure I will see plenty of people still wearing masks inside.

I do wish the CDC was a little more forthcoming about specific metrics, because even if I'm personally optimistic about their decision, if they had been a bit more specific in advance then they would have better justification for changing policy back, if they had to, like our state had in the past threatened to do (but never followed through with). Still, watching how quickly concerts, events, restaurants et al. are ramping up here, I think this state was pretty done with over-precaution as well, so I can only imagine how impossible it would be to put the cat back in the bag no matter what in the states that did not gaf months ago.

Thing is, this goes beyond just “clarifying mask guidance” at the heart of it. From the start, even as the CDC had to shift around and change up the messaging with new developments (for right and for wrong), mask wearing and social distancing have been drilled in as the two things average folks can do to stop the spread. This new guidance effectively waves a big red “COVIDs over folks, go back to normal” flag, which… it’s not. It’s trending in an incredibly positive direction and things are looking up, but even just a month longer on this would make so much more sense.

I’m not arguing that the science is “wrong” or that we wouldn’t have gotten here anyway in a month or two, but this will change the behaviors of a lot more than just the fully vaccinated and I’m still convinced it was too much, too soon.

At least we still have hand washing.

Fuck washing a hand.

Oh, you must be one of those anti-bathers.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e1/PigPen_%28Peanuts%29.png/220px-PigPen_%28Peanuts%29.png

"Free your minds, sheeple!"

In response to CDC, states/businesses have 3 choices:

1. Figure out who is vaccinated or not (hard to do but not undoable)

2. Drop mask requirements for everyone, hope for honor system (easy to do, not great)

3. Keep masking a bit longer (not hard to do, much better)

2/n

— Ashish K. Jha, MD, MPH (@ashishkjha) May 15, 2021

Good thread.

“Not hard to do”

The cdc also had those choices and chose #2 btw

like

you will never ever be able to convince me that this sudden capitulation of CDC leading to the 'mission accomplished' announcements everywhere has nothing to do with poverty wage jobs needing their workers.

— RustBelt Rebel (@RustBeltRebel) May 14, 2021

I don't understand that tweet, I was not under the impression employers had been holding back from making low-wage workers work in person under COVID-unsafe conditions.

Fuck that tweet tbh. Last thing we need is our own Q theories.

who is RustBelt Rebel?

They never said "mission accomplished" or anything approximating that, either, and even stated immunocompromised vaccinated need to check with their doctors, and said these mask guidelines will come back if the virus did unexpectedly worsen.

At face value only, ignoring method of rollout, these new guidelines didn't come out of thin air. The exact approach of relaxing mask requirements to this extent with threat of bringing back later was suggested by multiple epidemiologists a while ago as a way of keeping credibility with their mask guidance.

I don't mind the criticism of the way they rolled out, but I'm exhausted with this "THIS ISN'T BASED ON SCIENCE" messaging. It's become The Sneetches, so who do we listen to if we ignore the experts? The one who shrieks the loudest?

I already had one Nurse friend of mine who has been nursing during the pandemic since the beginning (who is going tho keep wearing her mask) have to chastise another friend who was imploring people to ignore all CDC guidelines from now on because they were "stupid".

So done with this thread and social media until The Poop Flinging is over

Worst/best Zappa song.

Neanderthal, I don’t think it’s fair to lump “this thread” in with what you are seeing on social media. No one itt that I can see is saying “this isn’t based on science” or anything of the sort, just arguing that this was too soon. I don’t see that it’s anti-science to argue that this feels rushed.

The poop flinging will continue until R_0 improves

Science says that the vaccinated are vastly less likely to contract or spread the virus, but that masking reduces the likelihood much further still. Social decency says that masking around other people is an easy way to indicate that you are fine with wearing clothes in public in order to avoid killing vulnerable and immuno-compromised and underage people. The CDC's messaging is a shitshow. All three of these can be true.

The Saturday LA times national section is like 12 pages and has three separate stories about people not understanding or being frightened by this change, or being forced to change plans with no warning.

My whole thing wrt the CDC announcement is that it's probably perfectly fine and sound advice if you assume that American humans are rational actors who will attend to the advice in good faith (ie that the unvaccinated will recognize that the good news does not apply to them until they are no longer among the unvaccinated and that they will behave accordingly). That the CDC apparently believes this to be the world we inhabit leads me to believe that the CDC is out of its goddamn collective mind.

I literally wore my mask in public earlier sic so not sure what your point is

in fact, the Target I went into (in a red county, no less) still had its mandate, and everybody was still masking. i don't blame people criticizing the CDC for how fast their decision was made, but like - where do you all live where mask behavior was healthy and being observed and now isn't? the Florida has been the Wild Wild West most of the year - so much so that friends of mine formed a group last year to report what businesses were "safe" or "unsafe" to go into based on their own mask rules/enforcement of them. and they had some horror stories.

lots of businesses around me removed any mask mandates the moment DeSantis removed any lingering local ordinances and said they couldn't be re-imposed, and that it was up to the businesses.

I understand the criticism that the abrupt announcement means now businesses have to make snap decisions whether to stay the course or change their approach. I can understand some vaccinated assholes might be dicks if asked to put on a mask (I sure as hell won't be, I still have a huge stack). I know folks who are vaccinated have unvaccinated children as well as immunocompromised dependents to think of and that this causes a confusing/stressful scenario I also understand some businesses are likely to abruptly put their employees in uncomfortable situations if they remove mask requirements for everyone, and I've never been unsympathetic to THAT. those are fair points.

but the criticism that "now a bunch of unvaccinated people can pretend to be vaccinated and stop wearing masks and it's going to halt our progress"? when exactly were these folk waiting for permission to begin with? why do you think Walensky went on TV in late March, almost sobbing, saying we were headed for impending doom if states didn't stop relaxing their guidelines? 15 states removed their mandates this year alone, long before the May 13th statement! it would really only come into play for stores that adopt a "vaccinated people need not mask, and we'll use the honor system" approach, which is really still probably less risky than "Nobody needs to mask" mandates.

Florida's a dumpster fire in terms of COVID responsibility at the moment and yet cases have been dropping in tandem with the national decline. It sure as hell isn't because of our "amazing efforts". that doesn't mean I don't think COVID measures and responsibility "no longer matters" or that I don't hate my state, its officials, and its civilians, but I'm saying it isn't exactly a new problem, and the solution is more vaccination.

I literally wore my mask in public earlier sic so not sure what your point is

Neanderthal, I don’t think it’s fair to lump “this thread” in with what you are seeing on social media.

:) :)

whatever is in your facebook feed seems to be very bad for your anxiety rn and I encourage you to either avoid both it and this thread (as you said) OR, preferably, to avoid facebook and just assume that everyone here is chill and concerned for each other's well-being, not aggro

Florida's a dumpster fire in terms of COVID responsibility at the moment and yet cases have been dropping in tandem with the national decline. It sure as hell isn't because of our "amazing efforts".

cases have been rising steadily for two months in this county/state that is handling public policy very well by comparison btw, and opening rando pop-up vaccination clinics in different neighbourhoods every few days. I don't have any data to back it up but imo the reason is maskless unvaccinated dipshits in bars etc (and eg Amazon forcing people back into offices - someone I know split from his bf during the pando, had just moved in with a new roommate, and got covid when the roommate went back to work for one (1) day and caught it.)

fwiw I was at the library working, then went to Publix and Target. Employees and patrons all masked.

It's heartening to hear anecdotal evidence that some people are staying the masks + distancing course, but surely y'all can understand the dreadful anticipation that a lot of people are just gonna do what they want now because MURRICA. And I get that there were already a bunch of MURRICA sociopaths already doing whatever they wanted, and they are and were and probably always will be a lost cause on pretty much every level imaginable, but my concern is more re: the people who've been begrudgingly going through the COVID safety motions whatever their personal feelings who will take this as the prompt to stop going along with the sheeple because COVID is clearly fixed now.

On the plus side, I don't know if it's bullshit or not but I've seen a couple accounts of race tracks opening up to the public as a reward for going through drive-through vaccine clinic. That sounds fun!

xpost how is hypothetical evidence superior to anecdotal evidence?

There are a handful of instances where people will still need to wear masks — in a health-care setting or at a business that requires them — even if they’ve had their final vaccine dose two or more weeks ago, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told reporters at a press briefing. Fully vaccinated people will also still need to wear masks on airplanes, buses, trains and other public transportation, she said.

Walensky said unvaccinated people should still continue to wear masks, adding they remain at risk of mild or severe illness, death, and risk of spreading the disease to others. People with compromised immune systems should speak with their doctor before giving up their masks, she said.

She added there is always a chance the CDC could change its guidance again if the Covid pandemic worsens or additional variants emerge.

that message clearly isn't "COVID is over". people will hear "COVID is over" because we are a county full of assholes, idiots, and grifters. but people have heard "COVID is over" before when it wasn't said too, many many times. we've vented about them ITT. People have been sharing Youtube videos that say exactly that (or that it never existed) since the beginning.

I'm not saying we won't be welcoming new participants to the Ignorant Olympics after this, no, but I don't really buy that suddenly, this is the watershed moment in which nobody masks again.

my main worry is getting vaccination levels back up, as we are back below 2 million a day again, though we haven't had time to benefit from the 12-15 crowd yet. we did clear 2 million in today's report, but it was still below what we did last Saturday.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/?

silver spoon up his ass:

Former child star Rick Schroder harasses a Costco employee over face masks pic.twitter.com/HRlWeJJlt1

— Fifty Shades of Whey (@davenewworld_2) May 16, 2021

fuckin asshole

I haven't trusted him since he antagonized the Soviet premier and caused a nuclear war.

"Walk to the edge of a cliff, Yuri. And drop off!"

I don't know exactly when Schroder became a piece of shit, but his commitment appears to be absolute.

Just one-fifth of epidemiologists said it was safe for fully vaccinated people to socialize indoors without masks in a group of unlimited size. https://t.co/u3SNNNGNBp

— NYT Health (@NYTHealth) May 14, 2021

that's so vaguely worded ('safe', 'socialize', 'indoors', unlimited') that if I were an epidemiologist I'd hesitate to endorse it, too.

i think the thing that bothers me most about this change (apart from the lack of warning) is that if you are a healthy under 50 who was one of the lucky people who got one of the appointments and took time off work to get your first done on literally the first day you became eligible in the most populous state in the nation, then you are not fully vaccinated until late next week.

*dose

Schroder was one of the big donors to get that little nazi shit out of jail on bond, hope he gets incurable shingles on his penis.

The question posed in the survey was:

If you had to predict, how long will Americans need to wear masks when indoors with people whose vaccination status they don’t know?

Nowhere does it stipulate "Americans" as being vaccinated or unvaccinated, it mushes them into the same bucket. It's worded terribly right off the bat.

Also dates back to 4/28

i think the thing that bothers me most about this change (apart from the lack of warning) is that if you are a healthy under 50 who was one of the lucky people who got one of the appointments and took time off work to get your first done on literally the first day you became eligible in the most populous state in the nation, then you are not fully vaccinated until late next week.

https://i.imgur.com/gaH923J.png