Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

tbc I support both Rep Silby's policy AND Senator Future's campaign platform

I don't love this guidance because I know people will take it as a sign to drop masks whether they are vaxxed or not. Where I live, people do a really good job of wearing masks in places like the grocery, and I'm sure that includes a not insignificant number of unvaxxed people who do it grudgingly because everyone else does. Now that will end and cases will spike again. Numbers are already at a higher level than they were a year ago. Why not give it one more month and let those case numbers get really low first?

Lots of good vaccine/pandemic news today, so don't miss this bit: the slowdown in vaccinations has leveled off over the past ten days and reticence among Republicans has fallen. https://t.co/4qiFtMazPJ

— Philip Bump (@pbump) May 13, 2021

Good!

Even better, in a global sense, is that new cases in India, which had been showing positive signs of slower growth, have now clearly crested and started to drop, which means we should see the same for deaths before long.

that's a welcome relief, even if they have a long way to go

citation needed?

https://i.ibb.co/1QxPghs/Screenshot-2021-05-13-11-07-17-PM.png

however, given the criticism of the integrity of their data, combined with the fact that the 7-day average is still overwhelmingly high, there's quite a long journey to go there. especially with the number of hospitals out of oxygen/etc.

All I'm saying is you'd a hell of a lot rather it looks like it looks now than that it looks like it looked two weeks ago.

which is true!

I've read multiple interviews on news sites with Indian crematorium workers over the last month, saying that their own data suggests the official figures are underreported by several hundred percent. While that's extremely anecdotal, it holds more weight with me so far than (checks notes) a free image hosting site in Colombia.

Even if those unsourced figures were reliable, there is not enough data to conclude a crest at this point.

You are looking at a Screenshot I took and posted on ImgBB.

The site is The World in Data.

https://ourworldindata.org/about

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

Fwiw I agree it's much too soon to dance a jig (which tbf eephus wasn't doing at all) because of the recency of the development, and frankly, what I don't know for certain, about the situation there

You'll also find similar data on Bloomberg's Vaccine Tracker and NYT COVID Tracker

after some hunting and light fraud I am booked for a vaxx in woodbridge ON today :)

congrats!

I got my first shot in Weston last week by checking the same day cancellations at the local hospital.

My 15-year-old gets dose 1 today, baby!

Nice!

Not that I want to rush the tests or science at all, but it's going to be a long wait until September for the next age cohort to get the go ahead. I think the return to school is still going to be a little fraught.

Yeah I have a younger kid too and the fact that they'll be differently restricted is going to be super annoying for her

Just back from trader Joe’s. 100% still wearing masks fwiw.

Every big box store still requiring masks fwiw

The CDC’s announcement has made p much everyone I know more upset and anxious so that’s cool

Thanks whoever

I feel like it's tough if you run a store -- if you drop the mask requirement, even if you put up a sign saying "unvaccinated people have to wear a mask," it is basically a given that your store is a transmission locus unless you're in an area with a really high already-vaxxed rate. If you don't, some customers are going to hassle your employees: "the CDC says I don't have to wear this so what's your problem?"

You can't walk into, well, anywhere without shoes or shirt unless you're at the beach.

The CDC’s announcement has made p much everyone I know more upset and anxious so that’s cool

― Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), viernes 14 de mayo de 2021 12:48 p.m. (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I dunno I'm happy the federal government thinks the jabs are this efficacious. That's huge.

Cool we’ve heard how you feel

Know what? I'm done with worrying about fucking Trumpers and what they'll do. They don't wanna get jabbed? Fuck'em. You're jabbed, I'm jabbed.

If you have children, I understand the anxiety of waiting until the next all-clear sign about vaccines. Otherwise, stop fucking worrying about a recalcitrant and sociopathic percentage of our population might do when they've been doing it already since March 2020.

My friends are more worried about getting sick despite vaccinations because of the caution-to-the-wind CDC messaging

Alfred, you've always been a calming presence in these threads and I totally understand the impetus behind that line of thinking, but it's not that simple just yet. There are people who still can't be vaccinated and this makes it even trickier for some to navigate. As much as I'd like to let the Trumpist refuseniks go on infecting themselves, I've got some very vulnerable kids in my immediate orbit that suffer from asthma and other underlying conditions that is going to make it hard to walk into a store not knowing who is actually vaccinated or not.

My friends are more worried about getting sick despite vaccinations because of the caution-to-the-wind CDC messaging

― Clara Lemlich stan account (silby)

They're good liberals. They read data.

I've got some very vulnerable kids in my immediate orbit that suffer from asthma and other underlying conditions that is going to make it hard to walk into a store not knowing who is actually vaccinated or not.

I totally get this. Hence why you should keep wearing masks. We know now that they do protect the user. And the big box stores still require them.

Maybe this is irrational, but I find that I can't just relax and assume that I'm not going to get sick/get my parents sick now that I'm fully vaccinated. Partly the threat of variants, partly because 95% isn't the same as 100%, partly because I had no physical reaction to my shots and I can't help wondering whether my immune system is really working. I just don't see myself going and hanging out in a coffee shop any time soon, and I was really hoping we would eventually get the numbers down to the point where I would feel safe doing things like that. This news makes that seem less likely to happen.

I mean, don't get me wrong, this is overall an incredibly good sign about the direction we are heading, but I don't think it's doomposting to say that it does make things more tricky for certain folks to navigate than it was 48 hours ago.

I can't help wondering whether my immune system is really working

uhhh maybe i don't know what i'm talking about but my doctor tested me for antibodies two weeks after my second vaxx appointment and they're... there i think? anyway this could be option

an option*

I had no physical reaction to my shots and I can't help wondering whether my immune system is really working.

I didn't either. Thankfully, this notion has been put to rest.

They don't wanna get jabbed? Fuck'em.

I just can't see it this way. Yes I think it's bad when people to get sick and die even if their own choices brought it on. I don't tell people dying of lung cancer "Fuck you, you smoked cigarettes for years, this is on you."

This is not an argument against the CDC guidelines being what they are but it is an argument for Target saying "we are not going to check customers' vaccination status so wear your mask in our store"

but it is an argument for Target saying "we are not going to check customers' vaccination status so wear your mask in our store"

Fortunately this sounds like the case so far, which is great. But I've heard anecdotal reports that a few regional grocery chains have replaced signage that reads "masks are recommended" instead of "mandatory".

Target did say that!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/05/14/masks-retail-stores-covid/

Right now, it's still the best strategy to make vaccination supremely easy and as attractive as possible. It might even help if they pushed the idea that vaccination is patriotic, since rational arguments don't seem to budge the recalcitrant. Getting tough and enforcing mandatory vaccination in order to get to herd immunity can be put in the wait-and-see pile for now.

Oh, I know the shots work even if you haven't had a reaction. It's just a personal anxiety thing; I would feel more at ease in crowded indoor spaces if I had actually felt my immune system kicking in.

Didn't mean to sound like a vaccine skeptic, because I'm not.

I just can't see it this way. Yes I think it's bad when people to get sick and die even if their own choices brought it on. I don't tell people dying of lung cancer "Fuck you, you smoked cigarettes for years, this is on you."

The cancer patient doesn't infect other people with a potentially fatal virus for which we at last have much better than expected vaccines. I care more about the relatives who must pay -- in every sense -- for the anti-jabbers' malice.

Look, the CDC could've gone to a junior college and hired three PR interns to write better press releases than what these pros have done since spring '20. Their messaging is awful. And they should've waited for the school year to end in a few weeks to (a) get more adolescents jabbed (b) let the it's-cool-to-be-outdoors announcement two weeks ago sink in.

But if the CDC had done so, we'd still have immuno-compromised friends and relatives, asshole anti-jabbers, and kids too young to get jabbed -- in June or July, not today. We were always going to draw a breath when they lifted mask requirements. I bet $$ we'd have this same conversation if the CDC had been consulting ILX for months.

I'm sorry if I sound like Ron Fucking DeSantis. I've dealt with enough despair in my own circles the last 24 hours.

very reluctant to opine in here but i agree w/all that 100%

All I have to add is that I have a very unfortunate image of Ron Swanson in my head now

under 12s can't get vaccinated. under 2s can't wear masks. like 20% of the population is immmunocomprompised regardless of vaccination status. social trust is incredibly low and the honor system is not going to work.

given those difficulties, and given the huge range in local transmission and vaccination rates, "a lol good luck guys!" from the federal agency responsible is a bad rollout.

Agree with everything in this thread by @JuliaLMarcus. CDC guidance is scientifically sound but essentially washes their hands of the messaging and implementation, which are where all the difficulty lies. https://t.co/Sx1Wzcj5sK

— Ed MD (@notdred) May 14, 2021

barely 30% of the US population is fully vaccinated. probably less if you don't count people who got their second does <2 weeks ago (e.g. many of us).

the fraction of people this guidance applies to is small. the fraction of people who will follow this guidance is ... not small.