Things you were shockingly old when you learned

I have (in Southern England).

xp

It seems very upper class to me.

I have heard it a great deal in the radio 4 dramas I was raised on.

Indeed!

Anglophone Canadians say "left-tennant" too, right?

officially yes, although it's one of those things where some people will say "lou" and will inevitably be corrected by a nerd

I would say it in reference to a specific official. If I'm talking about the rank or the position in general, I would say LOO-tenant, though LEF-tenant sometimes slips out probably, which is the case for a lot of words that I was taught was the right way to say but for whatever reason I try to adjust my pronunciation to the American way (I work with Americans mostly, and it feels weird to sound different)

I say "LEF-tenant, er, LOO-tenant, ummm, which is supposed to be the UK way and which is the American way? Oh shit I don't remember, this is stupid, sorry"

Ha! I feel that way about the "i" pronunciations -- missile, anti-, via, etc. I gave up. The only one I know is Canadian is intestine (rhymes with line)

I say leftenant, but make a random exception for lieutenant pigeon (I have no idea why)

LOL I somehow feel we've had this conversation before?

moving to Canada has destroyed my confidence about saying the word "process"

Anglophone Canadians say "left-tennant" too, right?

Elsewhere in the commonwealth too.

As a Torontonian, I pronounce "process" PROCK-ess.

'LEF-tenant' is virtually unheard of in Montreal. Yet another way in which our English is more Americanized than that of other Canadians, I suppose.

wouldn't it be more because pronouncing lieutenant as "lef-tenant" is super bizarre if you know nearly any French?

Hah, that too, probably.

I'm new enough to Canada to not be sure if Halfway is messing with me or not

Weirdly enough, the lef-/leuf- comes from old French, if I'm not mistaken.

Fwiw I tend to say 'pro-cess' instead of 'prawcess'. And 'dah-ta' instead of 'day-ta'.

xp a lieutenant is literally a place (lieu) holder (tenant). In Old French lieu was leu, which I don't think was pronounced 'lef', but I'm not a medievalist, so don't quote me on that.

l'ouef tennant

Je suis l'œuf tenant
Je suis le morse

:D

There's a bit about it in this lef:

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/lieutenant

Except the 'f' was 'v' in old French and the British interpreted it as an 'f'

'It is difficult to explain where the f in the British pronunciation comes from.'

Indeed.

'Probably, at some point before the 19th century, the u at the end of Old French lieu was read and pronounced as a v, and the v later became an f.'

By the British, though, right?

Sometimes I say "PROAK-ess", though, when amongst new Canadians, to make them feel at home.

Leff-tenant is just the British upper classes pronouncing things like fools to distinguish themselves from the lower orders, I'm sure there are other examples but they're not springing immediately to mind.

Would Marquis be an example of this? Pronounced Mar-kwiss rather than the more common (in my experience) Mar-kee

my sense of the british is they hate trying to pronounce loanwords correctly, cf. garridge, Quick-sote, Mar-kwiss, tay-co

We don't say tay-co!
It's TES-co.

Leff-tenant is just the British upper classes pronouncing things like fools to distinguish themselves from the lower orders, I'm sure there are other examples but they're not springing immediately to mind.

Pronouncing Powell as Po-ell is another example. Yes, I think there are quite a few of these.

Though it's mostly names, I think.

my sense of the british is they hate trying to pronounce loanwords correctly, cf. garridge, Quick-sote, Mar-kwiss, tay-co

Nobody says tay-co and Quick-sote sounds like another upper class affectation.

We don't say tay-co!
It's TES-co.

― kinder

lolled so hard at this, thank you kinder

lol but also my northern mom says tack-o and past-uh, which did drive me nuts as a kid but I’m grateful she said bath not bah-th

'Probably, at some point before the 19th century, the u at the end of Old French lieu was read and pronounced as a v, and the v later became an f.'

By the British, though, right?

― pomenitul, Thursday, May 13, 2021 2:21 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

By the French:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieutenant#Pronunciation

Hoisin translates directly as seafood sauce.
I could swear I read something saying that it was teh name of an admiral who discovered what is now America from the West via the pacific.
Is there a sci fi or alternative, What if history that uses that as part of its story.
LIke presumably knowing that they had called their character Admiral seafood as an ironic joke?

> my sense of the british is they hate trying to pronounce loanwords correctly, cf. garridge, Quick-sote, Mar-kwiss, tay-co

Some egregious US examples of this too, such as “clique” and “niche”.

Route pronounced as rout, maybe this is regional though

Kway

route/rout is regional in the us. my sense is that rout is less common, but i could be wrong

how many times has this thread devolved to pronunciation differences?

Pro-nounce-iation
Pro-nunts-iation

even star trekkers can’t agree how to pronounce ‘sensors’ or ‘species’; no wonder we have problems too

yeah, i find it interesting, but there really should be another thread for this

> my sense of the british is they hate trying to pronounce loanwords correctly, cf. garridge, Quick-sote, Mar-kwiss, tay-co

Some egregious US examples of this too, such as “clique” and “niche”.

fillit of fish

Well, it is fillet and not filet surely? I'm assuming Americans pronounce those two words differently too?

well you know that gap in yer gut, a fillay doesn't fillit

The joke about the fishmonger's daughter just doesn't work otherwise.

as far as I'm aware Americans just have "filet" and find our "fillet" coarse and ugly, may be wrong though.