Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

Yes.

How much of that is just ("just") India and Brazil, though?

Those countries are a big part of “the world” Joshua

Also - Argentina, Turkey. Uruguay, Sweden and Mongolia are doing pretty badly now as well.

xpost Absolutely! That's why I put "just" in quotes. But those two alone are doing a ton of the heavy lifting in terms of total number of new cases, aren't they? I did notice, when I was googling travel policies just a few days ago (just because) that Costa Rica was extremely lax. Like, not so much as a negative test required for entry. I told my wife, since it seemed odd, and just in the couple of days between reading about it and telling her the policy had switched to a limited lockdown due to an outbreak. It's almost as though no restrictions in a pandemic might lead to more cases.

Speaking of which, anyone else see the WaPo piece about the world turning its back on Bolsonaro, because he's just been that big of a counter-productive asshole?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/04/30/brazil-coronavirus-bolsonaro-india-vaccine/

I don’t think we need a new apolitical thread but we may need a USA thread shortly as our experience with covid is rapidly becoming one that isn’t even close to reflective of the global moment

Every country's experience with Covid is different. Do I really have to point that out?

'Every US state's experience with Covid is different.' Yep, gotcha.

Worth noting that, while Sweden's case count is high, its deaths remain very low.

Wait, so what pom is suggesting is that we should have a unique thread for each of the 50 US states to discuss the political and apolitical impacts of COVID?

Mongolia, fwiw, looks like a country that basically was entirely untouched by the pandemic until very recently. Things don't actually look all that bad there yet, it's just that there's an explosion compared to the near zero the had before.

Sweden: 1,365.81 deaths per million.

Compared to Denmark (427.77), Finland (165.75) and Norway (141.55), that's not exactly stellar.

Wait, so what pom is suggesting is that we should have a unique thread for each of the 50 US states to discuss the political and apolitical impacts of COVID?

Ideally, we should have one for each neighbourhood.

Sweden's had 14,000 deaths. It's a similar death rate to Scotland. Norway's had 750 deaths. Finland 900

I was responding to this:

Also - Argentina, Turkey. Uruguay, Sweden and Mongolia are doing pretty badly now as well.

Just pointing out that Sweden "doing pretty badly now" is not amounting to high death rates ATM, not speaking cumulatively.

Yeah, I was just pointing out the other countries besides Brazil and India that had really high case counts at the moment.

I did notice, when I was googling travel policies just a few days ago (just because) that Costa Rica was extremely lax. Like, not so much as a negative test required for entry.

The US did not require a negative test for entry until a year after the WHO declared COVID-19 a public health emergency of international concern.

Just pointing out that Sweden "doing pretty badly now" is not amounting to high death rates ATM, not speaking cumulatively.

Got you. Sweden is a touchy subject because it constantly gets brought up by anti-lockdown clowns despite the fact that its death rate is horrifically higher than comparable countries.

xpost Weird, I wonder what changed. Regardless, has little bearing on last week.

Surprised there’s not a single anti-vax holdout even in my extended social circle. Even the people I know usually vote Republican ran to CVS.

Yeah, I'm so glad to not have any holdouts (or hesitant, even) in my family or social circle. Everyone has already gotten it, or plans to get it, so I haven't had to do any convincing. I do have some extended family that is very likely anti-COVID vax (no signs of them having been anti-vax before now), but I don't see or speak to them ever and I'm 99.999% certain that any convincing I did would be roundly ignored.

Looks like they're not keeping a good record of who has been given the jab here. I got a phonecall from my health centre this morning about a month after i go the jab. I was offered a vaccination because somebody wasn't going to turn up or something. You'd think there would be a note somewhere. Since i had to show i.d. to get into the centre and had my name taken and confirmed .
Somebody who got theirs on the smae day as me lives a few doors away from me and said she's also been contacted weeks after her shot.
Seems to be a bad system if they're doing that with 2 people wonder how many others have had similar. Oh yeah we were through 2 different health centres or doctors though the vaccination centre covers all of the area. So surprised if that's just a coincidence that I know the only other person that's happened with.

Got you. Sweden is a touchy subject because it constantly gets brought up by anti-lockdown clowns despite the fact that its death rate is horrifically higher than comparable countries.

― Authoritarian Steaks (Tom D.), Tuesday, May 4, 2021 4:00 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's also doing no better economically, which was the supposed advantage of the do it/be legends approach.

So! Several good friends, all Dems, have reverted to normal since getting jabbed between February and late March, i.e. eating indoors at restaurants. None, some of whom with serious chronic conditions pre-COVID, have gotten sick. Yet here I am starting to quietly boil in the heat of outdoor Florida restaurant seating areas because I'm scared. Aren't vaccines supposed to handle the worst-case scenarios? I mean, if you get new brakes for your car, you won't test them driving to the corner Publix: you test them on the interstate going 65 mph, then brake suddenly when you see stopped cars in front of you. Obv you avoid dangerous scenarios, but, again, that's what they're for.

I suppose this is a long-ish justification for wanting to try indoor dining soon.

idk do what u feel man we can't stop you, I wouldn't

I would maybe get a hat

one thing to look at is what different restaurants are doing to accommodate indoor seating. A lot of restaurants here have limited capacity and put plexiglass barriers between tables. I think those measures plus vaccines are pretty good.

You're probably not at much risk dining indoors if you're vaxxed. The bigger danger is poorly ventilated restaurants that don't require masks and don't put barriers between tables causing superspreader events.

Given the low number of breakthrough cases, and the likelihood that others in your party and the restaurant are also vaxxed, I'd say you'll probably be fine.

I generally won't go to places that don't enforce masks or mush everyone together without distancing because I assume they are terrible people and that the people going there probably didn't get vaccinated.

idk plexiglass is hygiene theatre. We know how it spreads, and plexiglass will barely stop aerosolized particles.

Yeah, that was my issue with the "safety protocols" flyer they included with my jury summons. Like, great, plexiglass and wiping down surfaces. Okay, but what are you actually doing about the real problems?

Btw US 7-day case average dipped to it's lowest since Oct 6, 26% reduction from 14 days ago.

Still way higher than our first wave, but hoping the trend continues.

Hyper cleaning and wiping down surfaces is good for cleanliness, but are otherwise just theatre. Temp checks too.

Masks, good ventilation, and distance, as well as capacity limits are the real shit. Restaurants should open doors/windows where possible.

I should note: every one of my favorite restaurants here still requires staff to mask and guests to mask in waiting areas. I don't know what it's like in the rest of Florida. Back in July during our Sanibel beach vacation, we ran out of a restaurant when the friendly staff answered the door with smiles and no masks. It was like David Lynch politeness porn.

If the case numbers are low I’d be totally fine with eating indoors totally vaxxed up.

haven't really seen much what Florida has done since DeSantis's recent edict, but my county still seems to be mostly masking, to where it's jarring if I see people without one anywhere. but we're a blue-er area.

Melbourne was good about masks when my folks and I went to the beach there for a few days. but other beaches (Cocoa) are fuckin terrible and people were moved on as if the pandemic was over in April....of 2020.

I'm not prepared to alter much of what I've been doing for the past year+ but that's mostly due to the fact that Cook County alone still has a daily infection rate that's the same as/higher than every state surrounding Illinois. I keep hoping that data like this will factor into my workplace altering its plans to stupidly throw everyone back into the office on 6/1 but I'll maybe wait to hold my breath until I'm crammed into a closed space with unvaccinated coworkers for 8 hrs./day.

Yeah, Cook County's numbers are quite obnoxious, I hope we start to see a dip given some more encouraging vaxx numbers. My work has set up some committees to discuss "return" protocols, so I'm guessing things aren't quite imminent. However, been getting conflicting information about what it will look like in my department. One superior said some sort of hybrid remote thing would be encouraged, but another gave a dispiriting "butts in seats, every day, soon" type conversation last week that was hard to hear.

I ate a full meal indoors for the first time last weekend, in Manhattan. It was a week after my second dose so not fully immunized but felt close enough, and rates are low here. Pretty full restaurant. I'd reconsider if a variant that the Pfizer vaccine wasn't good at handling was gaining ground locally, but for now it felt fine.

I don't want to link directly to the absolute eyesore of the NBC 5 website, but this could be interesting if they continue to target neighborhoods with high rates of hesitancy:

Chicago is launching a new concert series exclusively for residents who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19, the city announced Tuesday.

The Protect Chicago Music Series will be a monthly series of events across the city as an "incentive and benefit" for Chicagoans who receive the COVID-19 vaccine, Mayor Lori Lightfoot's office said in a statement announcing the program.

Attendees must have received their second of two doses or their single-dose shot at least two weeks prior to be eligible to attend that event, according to the city.

Events will be ticketed and attendees must bring their Centers for Disease Control and Prevention vaccination card as proof of vaccination, as well as a matching photo ID, officials said.

The first event will be held on May 22 in the city's Hyde Park neighborhood, with DJ Ron Trent and Duane Powell performing, officials said. Based on that date, anyone who receives their final dose of the vaccine by May 8 will be eligible to attend.

Tickets can be found on Eventbrite, at vaccination sites and at will call. The city said for the first event, tickets will be made available first to people who attend a vaccination event at Apostolic Faith Church, located at 3823 S. Indiana Ave., between 9 a.m. and 2 p.m. on May 8. Residents can register for a vaccination appointment here, though walk-ins will also be accepted.

I generally won't go to places that don't enforce masks or mush everyone together without distancing because I assume they are terrible people and that the people going there probably didn't get vaccinated.

This is the thing. I've sat outside or in street tents with vaxxed or part-vaxxed friends a couple of times (and once in a "window" where the entire wall was absent), but seeing crowded, maskless bar patios or full restaurants is just a signal to avoid those places and people for the rest of the year.

(Outside of the city, seeing IF YOU ENTER WTHOUT A MASK WE WILL ASSUME YOU HAVE A MEDICAL CONDITION AND SHALL SAY NOTHING ABOUT IT signs on bars and restaurants without open windows, let alone outdoor seating, makes my heart ache for the sensible people who happen to live in those towns.)

my god that's a thing?

Yes indeed, saw a differently worded version of such when I stopped at a Casey's for gas last time I drove out to see my mom. Thankfully I had no reason/need to enter.

on the plus side: it looks like Michigan's cases are finally leveling off.

Yeah, that's been good to see.

Pfizer, Biontech, Novavax, Moderna shares plunge to session lows after U.S. backs waiving patent protections on Covid vaccines https://t.co/Wq9i3OsP1j pic.twitter.com/gEPwFw4yOg

— CNBC Now (@CNBCnow) May 5, 2021

You hate to see it lol

xpost Florida's have also declined more than 30% (!!!) in the past two weeks, despite all efforts to fuck things up indefinitely by DeSantis. It's not him, though, that deserves credit - we are doing better than the rest of the South at vaccinating (though really more around average nationally), and some counties (Seminole/Orange/etc) were upholding their own mask mandates since last summer. DeSantis just defanged their ability to do that, though, which worries me a lot, as it leaves it up to the store owners. but most of the people here in Seminole just do it anyway.

Miami-Dade and Broward business leaders, as per stories in the last couple days, have said they're keeping their mask mandates, including the big box stores.

So! Several good friends, all Dems, have reverted to normal since getting jabbed between February and late March, i.e. eating indoors at restaurants. None, some of whom with serious chronic conditions pre-COVID, have gotten sick. Yet here I am starting to quietly boil in the heat of outdoor Florida restaurant seating areas because I'm scared. Aren't vaccines supposed to handle the worst-case scenarios? I mean, if you get new brakes for your car, you won't test them driving to the corner Publix: you test them on the interstate going 65 mph, then brake suddenly when you see stopped cars in front of you. Obv you avoid dangerous scenarios, but, again, that's what they're for.

I suppose this is a long-ish justification for wanting to try indoor dining soon.

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, May 5, 2021 1:23 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Alfred, I definitely feel you. Our friends' band is playing indoors at a local cafe owned by other friends - the first such real event since this all started. When I saw it announced, I got real pangs to go because it would be an amazing scene to see everyone.

I feel like we're living an OK compromise here. Vaccine is there for anyone that wants it. Masks still mandated inside for most (all?) places, but just anecdotally some of the fear and stress seems to have dissipated (though it hasn't been particularly discernible for months, tbh). We're going to a ticketed museum entry this weekend (mask required inside). We're going to the soft reopening of a friend's restaurant next week (masks required when not dining). Stuff closed or canceled for a year (movie theaters, conventions, concerts) is creeping back in the coming months. One kid is, as of yesterday, back in school full time for the remainder of the year, the other alternates two days in-person, two days home.

I'm not particularly worried about safety or rising cases. I think we're at the stage (here, at least) where number of cases doesn't mean too much, because vaccine is there if you want it, and vaccine prevents serious illness and death (which are the scary metrics imo). I feel safe, my family and friends (all vaxxed) feel safe, and there's no reason to believe otherwise. Either the vaccines work (and there's every reason to believe and trust that they do), or they don't (and there's no reason to believe that they don't).

At this stage, I'm not even worried about the Great Unvaxxed. If they want to blow it off, that's their problem. So far, any place I've seen that's been packed with mask-free people is not a place I'd want to be, anyway; crowds and places packed with people were unpleasant well before they could get you killed. Even proof of vaccination wouldn't get me into a theatre for a sold out 7pm screening of whatever, because people are rude, gross, loud and inconsiderate in the best of circumstances. That goes for bars and the like, too. If that's really what people desperately missed, well, good for them, I guess.

Ultimately, re: restaurants, the real test of normalcy will be when everyone is comfortable enough to have the *servers* mask free. Who knows when that day will come.

the real test of normalcy will be when everyone is comfortable enough to have the *servers* mask free.

*chills*

Either the vaccines work (and there's every reason to believe and trust that they do), or they don't (and there's no reason to believe that they don't).

I'm coming around to this position.