outbreak! (ebola, sars, coronavirus, etc)

Right, that's also what I was getting at - I mean, yes, on some level a lot of the things I named could be said to add up to "culture of individualism" but that still makes it sound like the byproduct of a bunch of selfish individuals making poor decisions instead of living under a particularly harsh form of capitalism and under a constitutional government that is designed in a way that makes it harder to use for national social good.

My "joke" was from the view that our present capitalist/government system is American individualism as a governing principle. So I am agreeing with blaming the system and not individuals - but we wouldn't have this system without unchecked American individualism.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/27/health/cdc-mask-guidance-fully-vaccinated-bn/index.html

is there any hard data regarding fully vaxxed people getting sick or spreading it themselves? feel like "even once you're vaccinated you still shouldn't do anything" is not really helping here

feel like "even once you're vaccinated you still shouldn't do anything" is not really helping here

That is exactly not what this says tho

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/A5PZX2KHTFC7JHKAONIL4ESEGY.jpg&w=767

yes, xp

CDC keeping track of breakthrough infections in U.S., rate remains astoundingly low. Out of 87 million fully vax, only 5079 symptomatic breakthroughs (0.005%) & only 0.0003% hospitalizations related to COVID-19 & only 0.00009% deaths related to COVIDhttps://t.co/83MMPFXstc

— Monica Gandhi MD, MPH (@MonicaGandhi9) April 25, 2021

the information design of that CDC stuff is terrible btw.

Sadly, there is a large chunk of Americans that will take a look at that graphic and say, "well fuck it, if I still have to wear a mask to do all that stuff there's no point in getting vaccinated".

I missed that chart, just saw "still avoid indoor gatherings" which reads to me like "don't go to restaurants or bars". which is probably okay advice but you can guess how conservative media is gonna spun that

CDC overstresses the minor risks imo.

I mean, really, we know and the CDC knows that small outdoor gatherings with vaccinated and unvaccinated people are low risk yet there's the graphic telling you to wear a mask!

Sadly, there is a large chunk of Americans that will take a look at that graphic and say, "well fuck it, if I still have to wear a mask to do all that stuff there's no point in getting vaccinated".

― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0),

They weren't getting jabbed anyway but otm. I guess these mostly apply to cities like NYC or L.A. where you must wear masks at all times outdoors.

a graphic telling the unvaccinated to wear a mask at small outdoor gatherings, let me be clear

the CDC is kind of in a shitty posish, partially because the previous director destroyed a lot of their credibility, partially because reactions on both the pro and anti-vax side seem to embrace extreme opinions. you still have vaccinated people telling everybody (including other vaccinated) to stay home 24/7, you have anti-vax/maskers basically saying "re-open everything up", and then you have the folks capable of understanding nuance, which is much smaller than it should be.

hell, look at the blowback Wallensky got when she said (in general) vaccinated people didn't get infected or spread the disease? it was an over-the-top walkback, IMO, that hurt their messaging. humorous also because CDC officials didn't seem all that eager to contradict Redfield.

CDC overstresses the minor risks imo.

CDC is trying to control a disease (it's right there in the name) that has proved itself highly transmissible and alarmingly deadly or debilitating. After watching it burn through the nation and cause 565,000 deaths they are naturally going to be very risk averse.

Aimless otm, but also the reality of America in 2021 means that part of controlling risk is making sure the messaging isn't pushing them further away from getting vaccinated. Which is not to suggest that there are any easy answers, I don't have them, but Neanderthal also otm in that they are in a terrible position right now.

exactly

and as Neanderthal can tell you we have communities in which it's been 2019 since last summer

esp Pasco and Brevard counties

Seminole is actually looking at lifting their mask 'mandate' and making it a 'recommendation', an utterly stupid move because they already can't fine you for not wearing one, so it's toothless to begin with - why 'weaken' it further.

Messaging is clearly not part of the CDC's major expertise. Even if they have some experts in that field, those experts are so peripheral they can easily be overruled or overridden by the medical experts.

Maybe they should hire more messaging experts?

I mean, not picking a fight here, but they absolutely play a huge role in messaging around diseases and outbreaks. Just because it's particularly hard in America, 2021 doesn't excuse their role in it.

on the plus side, at least they're taking a more active role in it. Fauci only become the 'face' of fighting COVID because Redfield/Trump decided to shove the CDC to the background in terms of COVID messaging. I don't even recall if I saw Redfield make any public statements, whereas Director Wallensky has frequently done so. the CDC is very much responsible for messaging, and that was one of the chief criticisms last year, that they weren't doing it at all.

To be clear, I'm not criticizing them. It's a tough position and they are doing much better than they did last year, to be certain. I was just responding specifically to Aimless' claim about them not being messaging experts.

My frustration is more aimed at America in general than the CDC. I'm furious that we have a path out of this and so many people just refuse to take it out of stupidity. The CDC can never fix that.

my response was more to Aimless, as messaging *is* one of their responsibilities.

Yeah, I think we're on the same page. I just wanted to note that I wasn't disparaging the job the CDC is doing on the whole.

Messaging is one of their responsibilities, but they are far more used to communicating with physicians than with the general public. And because messaging to the public is both a responsibility of theirs and not a part of their major expertise, they are not especially good at it and their institutional bias doesn't promote it in the same way medical expertise is promoted.

This is me trying to describe the difficulty, not excuse it or dismiss it.

Well then:

A private school in the fashionable Design District of Miami sent its faculty and staff a letter last week about getting vaccinated against Covid-19. But unlike institutions that have encouraged and even facilitated vaccination for teachers, the school, Centner Academy, did the opposite: One of its co-founders, Leila Centner, informed employees “with a very heavy heart” that if they chose to get a shot, they would have to stay away from students.

http://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/26/us/florida-centner-academy-vaccine.html

Yeah, that was covered a little in the Mostly Apolotical thread.

Ah, my bad. I haven't been keeping up with that one.

No worries, just steering you that way if interested.

Anti-vaxxers gonna anti-vax.

fair play, the let's just do it and be legends approach to public health seems to have worked.

This is wonderful! Real-world data out of the UK shows delaying the second dose of Pfizer’s or AstraZeneca’s vaccine to 12 weeks DOES NOT compromise effectiveness! https://t.co/lZGFraGrHp

— Mac n’ Chise 🧬🦠🧫 (@sailorrooscout) April 27, 2021

If it didn’t there wouldn’t be anyone left to complain was presumably the bet there

It's simpler than that, they didn't have enough vaccine.

This fun if you want to geek out on how the Pfizer vaccine is made:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/health/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine.html

Australians trying to return home from India face up to $66,000 fine or five years’ jail

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/30/australian-government-may-make-it-a-for-citizens-to-return-from-covid-ravaged-countries

Has there been any discussion about this? How has it been received in Australia? Interested in the perspective of Australian ilxors tbh

It’s fucking disgusting white supremacy from the federal government, just like their use of offshore concentration camps with flights from China last year. With Albo’s fed Labor refusing to be in opposition or generally have any policies about anything at all, Dutton and Morrison have been aggressing against p much every state government, even the LNP ones, about COVID all along. Having recently postponed vaccination plans until, maybe, 2022, and yesterday refused to fund quarantine, they’ve got nothing left except cruelty. Dutton is probably rock hard right now.

It’s our lazy fucking federal government leaning on the one thing they know how to do with is keeping people especially PoC out of the country or locked up. We’re still operating with the same flawed quarantine system as a year ago and even fighting the states that want to improve it.

Basically what sic said

As India reels under a devastating surge of coronavirus cases, it is increasingly clear that the situation is even worse than statistics indicate. The country has shattered global records for daily infections, most recently on Thursday when it recorded 412,000 new cases in the prior 24 hours. It also reported nearly 4,000 deaths, India’s deadliest day to date in the pandemic.

The actual toll is likely to be considerably higher. The Washington Post checked crematorium statistics in three cities in three Indian states and found a wide divergence from official tallies. In all of the cases, the statistics released by state authorities appeared to capture only a fraction of covid-19 deaths.

Pithadiya was almost certainly one of those left uncounted. After she tested positive for the coronavirus and the oxygen level in her blood plummeted, her family drove her to the main hospital in Rajkot, a city on a large peninsula in the Arabian Sea. They waited outside in a line of ambulances and other vehicles for two hours. Her son Gaurav begged doctors to admit his mother or provide her with oxygen. She died in the car, he said.

The only paperwork Gaurav was given by the hospital was a small slip of paper that noted his mother’s death but made no mention of covid-19. Two weeks later, he has yet to receive a death certificate. If his mother “had received medical treatment, the result could have been different,” said Gaurav, 35. She “took care of us for so many years, and I wasn’t able to save her life.”

...

In Bhopal, a large city in central India, crematorium records bear little resemblance to the official count. Mamtesh Sharma has worked for 20 years for the trust that runs the Bhadbhada crematorium in the city, one of several. “I don’t know about the government’s data but I am telling you what I see with my own eyes,” said Sharma, 46.

He shared a ledger that he maintains of all the cremations that have taken place since April 11, with a separate column for those conducted according to covid-19 protocols. The fewest number of daily cremations of covid-19 victims was 34; the highest was 100, on April 24. Yet the official figures for such deaths in Bhopal never went above 10 for a single day in that period.

“I have never seen so many dead bodies in my life,” Sharma said. “This second wave is killing people ruthlessly.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/06/india-coronavirus-deaths/

definitely some problems that can occur when you have a genocidal maniac as your head of state

The situation in India remains horrific but one very small bright spot:

One piece of positive news speaking to leaders of 2 large hospitals in India where most healthcare workers were fully vaccinated: No serious COVID cases among any of the vaccinated healthcare workers during this current crisis. The vaccines are working.

— Vincent Rajkumar (@VincentRK) May 10, 2021

Haven't seen a lot as to whether that Indian variant evades vaccines or not so this could be a good sign.

I read up about it a little and apparently vaccines are still largely effective, which is what that thread seems to imply? At least Pfizer is but if they’re using AZ in India widely on exposed healthcare workers then you could probably consider the above evidence too

yes, BioNtech(Pfizer)'s news release yesterday: no need for modifications (for now) to their current vaccine re: variants

https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-announces-first-quarter-2021-financial-results-and

Just scheduled shots for my two 14-year-olds for tomorrow!

Wooo!

13 yo scheduled in a week

yes!!!

Very few people wearing masks outdoors today. I'm sure not all these people are fully vaccinated, but I guess once the public stigma is removed, its not surprising that people would stop.

this article seems to suggest that outdoors is actually pretty darn safe: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/briefing/outdoor-covid-transmission-cdc-number.html

I guess there's nothing to really discuss on a message board about this, but it is disgusting that the US may be vaccinating 2 year olds as soon as September while a plurality of countries have literally zero vaccines.