Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

not sure what's untranslatable about a phrase that means "God willing" xp

oops lol

tbh I have thought about objecting to people saying "namaste" in a jokey way but have never done it

I work with lots of Muslims and I'm pretty sure I've ever heard a Muslim say it someone who isn't also a Muslim.

i would never say it to a non-Muslim, but i also am not exactly offended by it; it just makes me feel weird.

I'm from Southern Illinois, and it isn't where I would raise a family or spend my gay life, but there is some real fucking beauty there, and the people who are fighting the good fight down there have a *much* clearer view of what is happening and has happened to this country, and how it might one day improve, than ppl who have spent all of their adult lives moving from one gentrifying big city neighborhood to another.

Also, the corruption and disenfranchisement in those areas, both historically and currently, is fkn intense. Acting as though a vast majority of their residents are happy that they send who they send to govern them is a pretty iffy prospect. The Villages towns in the greater St. Louis metro are far worthier places of blanket distain than The Corn and Coal Counties, imo.

it's like how does everyone get to hate us but also steal our shit? that's a neat trick. see all appropriation ever, i guess.

Huh, yeah, I use "-istan" all the time. Like, Golfcoursistan, Fastfoodistan, Trumpistan, Disneystan, Officeparkistan. Definitely with some snotty disdain intended, but always directed toward the seemingly homogenous/ubiquitous subject, not the "-istan" suffix, which I figured was as harmless as sticking "-land" on something. Now, in the case of that "Londonistan" title, oof, that's horrible, because in that case the implication is that London is becoming another "-istan," which is, in the book's (I assume) view, a bad thing (ie a Muslim/terrorist country), a totally different and totally offensive use of that.

Starting with that kind of reasoning has profoundly recast rural poverty for me.

See, this I totally understand, but at the same time, when I see a Confederate flag (for example), I know its history and how the people flying it might have ended up believing the things they might, but my first reactions are always fear, revulsion and anger (maybe in that order), with sympathy somewhere far, far down the line, even if intellectually I get it.

Parts of southern Illinois look absolutely gorgeous, which is why we're going there. Geographically speaking, it's surreal that parts of Illinois are considerably south of St. Louis, well below Louisville and just a quick jaunt over to Nashville.

Beginning Tuesday, all New Yorkers 30 years of age and older will be eligible to receive the vaccine.

-- Beginning April 6, universal eligibility goes into effect, and all New Yorkers 16 years of age and older will be eligible to receive the vaccine...

It would be fucking nice if NY had this anywhere on their fucking eligibility website.

"god willing" is the translation.

― horseshoe, Monday, March 29, 2021 1:26 PM (twenty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

that's the literal translation but biden didn't mean "god willing" when he asked trump when he was going to release his tax returns.

"untranslatable" is a bit strong, but there were multiparagraph articles at the time explaining that what it means, which suggests "lol it means 'god willing'" doesn't quite capture it.

I mean, his usage was very acute as that is the non-literal way Muslims use it with each other when they’re clowning each other. He could have accomplished it with an eyeroll and a “sure, you’ll release ‘em,” but yes, some young Muslim on his staff did a nice job clarifying that usage for him. I saw a lot of Muslims on my Twitter feed tickled by his usage fwiw. I...was weirded out by it.

I am going to leave having empathy and understanding for white people supporting white supremacy to white people

I think because in my lifetime Muslims have gone from a group no nonMuslims I knew cared about or knew anything about to a much-feared and hated group. And learning about Muslim culture became a thing because of the fear. With complex results.

I suspect some of the insha'Allah thing is liberal-ish agnostic-ish ppl trying to replace "God willing" with something that sounds less Christian or has more ironic distance or something, while still keeping the sentiment.

I wish they wouldn’t if that’s the reason...I mean, Allah means God, sooooo

i am not a muslim and i found his use ... a little weird too, especially given his foreign policy history. but i guess i can see the case for a using it more than "allahu akbar" just because it says something useful crisply.

i have never heard a white person use it to mean "god willing"

I know language is a living thing and probs 30 years from now everyone will say it and nonMuslims won’t know the origin, but if we’re still bombing the hell out of Muslim countries and surveilling American mosques, I’ll be a cranky old person.

I can't really imagine any white person in the UK saying it!

But the thing is the crispy usage is sooooo culturally Muslim. I recognize that it’s a universal human situation and I get why it feels crispy but damn.

I've certainly never heard any non-Muslim say it.

you're going to hear it soon. it's an internet thing now afaict.

I am just bitter from being ten years old and having all my white friends assume I and my Hindu friends were all vaguely the same religion.

The non-Muslims I know who occasionally drop in an "Inshallah" are Jewish people who have spent time in Israel and speak Hebrew, they also say "Yalla" for "let's go" sometimes. They don't say "Allahu akbar" though.

I can imagine some arsehole like Boris Johnson saying it for a laugh tbf.

also the Biden usage still means “God willing!” The clowning comes from the ironic inflection

i have never heard a white person say "Allahu akbar" with good intentions. it's always been a terrorism "joke".

I can imagine some arsehole like Boris Johnson saying it for a laugh tbf.

― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Monday, March 29, 2021 2:10 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

ha that's literally who i thought of when biden said it during the debate!

lands differently from someone with a foreign policy record than from someone on tiktok.

Inshallah

Def noticed a huge uptick in white liberal twitter people using this one.

Lol, there are no appointments available within 25 miles within the next 5 days.

PBKR, keep checking. Seems like Walgreens keeps adding more appointments from time to time. I mean, as of Friday morning, I was seeing the same thing, two hours later was that massive drop a lot of folks got in on.

Annoying digression from your friendly neighborhood Kipling scholar: Kipling routinely uses "Allah" instead of "God" throughout his writings. In his case I think it had a lot to do with wanting to be more culturally Indian than he was, and also with having been raised for six years in an abusive Evangelical Christian household that made him deeply uncomfortable with the language of organized Christianity. Digression over, sorry!

xpost We had good luck searching for slots/shots through https://getmyvaccine.org.

horseshoe, i guess i don't see the proper use of language (biden's insha'Allah for instance) as appropriation so much as it is an attempt to broaden the conversation in the name of inclusivity and, as you say, as a somewhat unthinking show of a kind of worldliness? But, having lived through 2001/2002 to now in NYC I can certainly see how this perspective:

I think because in my lifetime Muslims have gone from a group no nonMuslims I knew cared about or knew anything about to a much-feared and hated group. And learning about Muslim culture became a thing because of the fear. With complex results.

Cultural assimilation of speech and attitude and art and evolving politics has been a necessary survival tactic as a transplant from proud redneck country to thriving and often beleaguered urban metropolis, much as it was in my youth adjusting from a liberal intellectual upbringing to the rigorously xenophobic and christian-centered public schools i suffered through. I can certainly see how the internet flattens the conversation to make potentially sensitive language as if everything has air quotes. Thanks for providing the perspective.

i am sorry to keep posting about this, but i think part of what irritates me about the use of expressions like "insha'Allah" in non-Muslim circles is that it seems to presume that you are not going to be in the presence of a Muslim? Like everyone will share the winky perspective on the way you're using it? whereas i have been in the presence of white non-Muslims using it that way, though they likely didn't know i was Muslim. i don't have a winky perspective on "insha'Allah"!

People without faith use the language of faith differently than those of faith, whose language it is. Treating "insha'Allah" as just a foreign phrase like "joie de vivre" or "weltschmerz" is culturally tone deaf.

yeah, that gets at the heart of it. like Muslims use "insha'Allah" jokily with each other, but Allah means something to them.

also they use it to clown each other sometimes but they also use it sincerely.

Hot off the press:

The CDC has released in a new study within the hour that shows that the two dose mRNA vaccines reduce infection (not just symptoms or severity, but infection) by 90% after the two doses and 80% even after just one dose.

xp -- do non-muslims actually use it as a winky joke though? (and it also isn't really a thing with ironic channers either)

yes, we do, but in the context of also using it sincerely, so the irony is gentle. and generous.

i don't even use the expression anymore because i'm not really a believer anymore, but religious Muslims use it in my presence.

i do feel like there's a longstanding fascination with the word "Allah" in Western culture, esp Anglo American culture, given the history of the British empire, that is inherently Orientalist, as rob pointed out about "-istan." Like, the word "Allah" doesn't give me an exotic frisson; it just means God.

My boyfriend's (white) teenaged kids use it jokily but then they are absolutely terrible people growing up in an in some ways very diverse NYC world but one in which they are also always superior to the "diverse" ppl.

the ironic usage would be if your friend who’s always late says that they’ll make it to your lunch date on time, insha’Allah; you might echo soulfully, “insha’Allah!” meaning, “yeah, right.”

That was the ironic by Muslims usage I meant. For context my mom sometimes uses it that way, but any time I talk about any desirable event that is set to happen in the future, she quickly says “inshaAllah” sincerely because she believes that helps good things happen!

Like they have friends who are Muslim and they also have friends who are Puerto Rican (two specific examples) and they feel free to appropriate anything from those cultures they want because they're "conversant" in it because of their friends.

Anyway great news about the age eligibility!

I think the concept of Anglo-American doesn't hold up in this instance.

yeah, that is different than middle aged white dudes using it and is probably how it's going to become a decontextualized thing in the long run. i guess that's fine.

xp why?

well you're the one who mentioned boris johnson xp